Eldar Storm Guardians

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**Old Man Ultramarine**

Do they have role on field?

Squad of 20 with x2 flamers and Warlock with Distructor. Great if Avatar is on table giving fearless.

Has anyone tried these?

**Old Man Ultramarine**

Or better, yet.

Warlock with Enhance. +1 to WS and Int.

60 attacks on charge.....3+ to hit, 5+ to wound MEQ's

**Mellon**

Stormguardians are a bit tricky to use. They are fragile and cheap only if you compare to your other choices. One popular way is to put them in a waveserpent, 2xflamers, lock with destructor. Against the right enemy that can be very nasty.

To take your example squad at around 200p.: 60 attacks => 40 hits => 13 wounds => ~4 dead marines (64p), or ~2 dead TH/SS-termies (80p). If you don't need to fleet, you can always shoot a bit on the way in and kill 30-40p more.

Fearless isn't extremely great, due to the extra wounds you take. Could be useful if you face another strong and fast assault army and need your storms to hold after recieveing a charge, but I'd rather take a small cheap unit and let them die and break. That leaves the enemy vulnerable to both shooting and assault.

But, i all honesty, I only play against eldar. And the Thre Templates in a Serpent trick hurts my genestealers badly.

**Blackarandras**

Yes,they have their uses,but rarely in my army.

The main purpose I use them for is a speed bump,simply to slow the enemy down. It is a cheap option for that kind of tactic.

Other people use them for horde control or to protect a gun line.

**willydstyle**

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Or better, yet.

Warlock with Enhance. +1 to WS and Int.

60 attacks on charge.....3+ to hit, 5+ to wound MEQ's

Enhance gives a stormy WS 4, which is still 4+ to hit MEQs, but they go first... as long as they aren't charging into cover.

This is why I suggest you DON'T use storm guardians as a CC unit, except in the direst of circumstances, and if you do assault something, never, ever assault something that has not been doomed.

I've been using the "3 flamers in a wave serpent" squad, and they work pretty well at killing... well most anything really, especially for the points cost, but in the shooting phase not in CC.

**whitedragon**

Eldar troops are safest when on jetbikes or embarked in a transport. 20 guardians is a waste of points for 3 flamers, but 10 guardians with 3 flamers in a wave serpent is really really good in some circumstances.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232224.page

**Old Man Ultramarine**

Keep the opinions coming.....

I have about 15-20 extra guardians and wanted to try them out, but they will be last of Eldar I paint up.

My bad on WS of the citizen Eldar.

I agree on only assaulting doomed enemy. I tried finishing off squads with my jetbikes last weekend and it pure fail. 6 bikes charging 3 marines and I kill one. Marine respond with killing 2. I break and get run down. This happened 4 out of 5 times. I wasn't going insane with them. Just trying finish off tyranid warrior with one wound and at most 3 marines.

Moral of story.......citizen Eldar are lovers not fighters

**Old Man Ultramarine**

Keep the opinions coming.....

I have about 15-20 extra guardians and wanted to try them out, but they will be last of Eldar I paint up.

My bad on WS of the citizen Eldar.

I agree on only assaulting doomed enemy. I tried finishing off squads with my jetbikes last weekend and it was pure fail. 6 bikes charging 3 marines and I kill one. Marine respond with killing 2. I break and get run down. This happened 4 out of 5 times. I wasn't going insane with them. Just trying finish off tyranid warrior with one wound and at most 3 marines.

Moral of story.......citizen Eldar are lovers not fighters

**DAaddict**

Small squad of 10 for the flamer hoard control or big unit with cover warlock to protect a gunline with cover.
Or if you don't have the slots/points for firedragons,
1 warlock and 2 fusion gun 10-man squad can be a poor mans fire dragons to protect a gunline eldar from drop pod dreadnoughts.

**Exarch_Nektel**

One way to use them is to mount them in a Wave Serpent and use them to take a forward objective.

**augfubuoy**

I use a wave serpent with a S-cannon and with 10 Storm and x3 flamers. Kills SOOOOO many things!!

**Old Man Ultramarine**

Now the great question.....

Where you get the flamer for guardians?

**whitedragon**

DAaddict wrote:Small squad of 10 for the flamer hoard control or big unit with cover warlock to protect a gunline with cover.
Or if you don't have the slots/points for firedragons,
1 warlock and 2 fusion gun 10-man squad can be a poor mans fire dragons to protect a gunline eldar from drop pod dreadnoughts.

Uhm...

10 guardians + warlock with destructor and 2x Fusion guns = 127

5 Fire Dragons = 80

So, guardians are more expensive than fire dragons, the dragons have more fusion gun shots, higher BS, better LD and better armor. They are always a the best way to get fusion guns, so always leave a slot for them.

As for the flamer/fusion gun for guardians, you have to get the storm guardian box (off the website) or find someone that has the old 2nd edition eldar weapons sprue.

**DAaddict**

Did not say they were cheaper... just that if your build has managed to use up all of your elite slots, it gives you a poor-man's antitank unit. There aren't many in the eldar army.

Vehicles - 100+
Wraithlord - 100+
Vypers/Walkers - 80+ in AT configuration
D-cannons - not cheap and easy to kill
Wraithguard - 350+ as a troop choice
Seer council - only two max and not cheap.

then we get down to storm guardians, fire dragons...

Swooping Hawks were okay with the old vehicle charts but haywire grenades are junk when only 1 in 6 hits are a pen on the new charts.

**Squig_herder**

I love storm guardians.
The most fun i have had with them is charging 20 storms into 20 hormies, i go fist and killed all, all thanks to higher I and a warlock with enhance.

**focusedfire**

I had a thread about the same thing. Its the Storm Guardians worthwhile or not thread. I'll see if I can link it:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/233383.page

Edit for spelling

**whitedragon**

DAaddict wrote:Small squad of 10 for the flamer hoard control or big unit with cover warlock to protect a gunline with cover.
Or if you don't have the slots/points for firedragons,
1 warlock and 2 fusion gun 10-man squad can be a poor mans fire dragons to protect a gunline eldar from drop pod dreadnoughts.

DAaddict wrote:Did not say they were cheaper... just that if your build has managed to use up all of your elite slots, it gives you a poor-man's antitank unit. There aren't many in the eldar army.

Um....you did say that if points were a concern...so that leads me to believe you thought they were cheaper. If you are running mech, you should always have an extra elite slot. Dropping off melta whereever you need it is too good to pass up in 5th. Not to mention, I showed above that the fire dragons are the cheapest "poor man's" anti-tank you can get. You have to spend 92 points for a min guardian squad with 2x fusion, where as 5 fire dragons are 80, and have more fusion guns at better BS and with better armor. You probably need to rethink your elites selections if you are trying to make guardians do dragon work.

**pakman**

In a 2000 pt game, I like running 2 squads of these. Two flamers and a warlock with destructor in a wave serpent with starcannons. I also run two squads of dire avengers. These unit together simply decimate squads. Eldar is all about focused fire and using units in conjunction with each other.

**focusedfire**

Somebody mention my name?

Thats right its all about me.

Sorry Pakman, had to do it.

Whitedragon, This seem to be our day to disagree. I'm sorry about that. But also pleased because you have a keen mind to discuss and debate with.

I agree with the poor mans tank killer description. Its just that you left out that the Fire dragons aren't scoring where the Storms are.

I think maybe a squad of Storm used in tandem with the fire dragons might be a good mix. Yes even armed with the fusion. You can never have enough fusion/melta.

**DAaddict**

Points only comes into play when we start talking mech eldar.

Personally I believe in Dire Avengers for troops and Fire Dragons for elites but if you are say trying an army built around outflanking Scorpions and war walkers, you could be looking at need for some antitank to protect the avengers and storm guardians are cheaper than the other two on foot options of warlocks or wraithguard.

If I want a cover shield, I would go with defenders but if you want some AT, storms and a warlock can fit the bill.

**Exarch_Nektel**

The Storm Guardians are definately worthwhile if you use 2 flamers and a warlock with destructor. (In transport)

**whitedragon**

If you are playing outflanking scorps and warwalkers, you probably don't need the extra AT from fire dragons. If you are playing mech, it can be worthwhile to have one unit of storm guardians (with flamers) among your Dire Avengers in serpents.

However, fire dragons do fusion better. They just do. They also have alot more shots for the same number of points, so whatever they shoot at will most likely be dead, where as the guardian's BS3 and 2 shots means that they will not always do damage. The flamer for them takes their BS out of the equation completely, which is why its the better buy. You also don't want to engage the guardians against a target unless you are sure you can destroy it, since as Focusedfire reminds us, they are troops, and they are fragile. You need troops to win, so they shouldn't really be in the enemy's face trying to mariginally melta something. Thats what the dragons are for. Hell, don't forget the dragons come with melta bombs so can multi-charge a could of vehicles close together for real bang for your buck.

So in summary, leave the fusion to the dragons.

**Biophysic**

I'll echo the above statements on Storm Guardians with flamer in Wave Serpents. They're powerful, they're scoring, and they're not that expensive. However, I want to throw out another reason I think they're great.

I usually run the 130 point squad (adding in the singing spear on the Warlock). They definitely concentrate on enemy troops, but the spear on the Warlock gives a lot of anti-tank flexibility also. I probably wouldn't pay more than the 3 points that it costs, but I have found it useful in situations where my enemy is bringing a lot of armor. It allows the squad to become the only troop unit in the Eldar list that is a legitimate threat to both tanks and troops.

**willydstyle**

Without a singing spear they're more of an anti-tank threat because if you're in spear range... you're probably also in range to run and assault the tank, with 3 str 9 hits instead of just 1 for throwing it.

**ungulateman**

I consider Storm Guardians as sub-par. They seem to me like Guardsmen with warrior weapons and I4. You need a Warlock with Enhance or you're screwed.

ungulateman

**Biophysic**

willydstyle wrote:Without a singing spear they're more of an anti-tank threat because if you're in spear range... you're probably also in range to run and assault the tank, with 3 str 9 hits instead of just 1 for throwing it.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. When troops that can hurt a tank in assault are nearby, no competent player keeps a tank stationary. With the spear, you get 1 shot at whatever armor you're facing that hits on a 3+, then 2 CC attacks that hit on 4's or 6's against rear armor. With the witchblade, you get 3 CC attacks that hit on 4s or 6s against rear armor. The spear shot, however, can also be used on things out of CC range, it can be used after you disembark from a wave serpent, and it is far better against vehicles that moved >6". It also costs a paltry 3 points. The only thing it's demonstrably worse against is walkers, as you get half the attacks as the witchblade on non-charge turns of combat.

**Orlanth**

Storm Guardians work best in two ways. First as described above as part of a guardian horde army. Preferably with the Avatar.

The second use is as a size boost for a Mech Eldar army. Mech Eldar is expensive and hasc a very low model count, Storm Guardians go a long way to redressing this.
Frankly the Guardians are not strictly needed, you can do the job with more aspects. The only thing they really bring that is different are flamers and those can be replicated on a Fire Dragon exarch giving the unit a multi role. However it is still not 'wrong' to take them, quantity has a quality all of its own, and the warlock definately helps.
Mostly though the benefit is in making a Mech Eldar army have more presence on the battlefield, and there is nothing wrong with that.

**willydstyle**

Unless your unit is 6.1-12" away during the shooting phase, which is a lot more likely than <6" away, then the choice is between running to get 2 (3 with a blade) attacks on rear armor, or shooting a spear for one attack at the armor facing you.

Witchblades are better 90% of the time.

**pakman**

I personally like the Witchblades over the Singing Spears. I hate losing that CC attack. Plus, I'm usually close enough to assault if I was going to throw the spear anyways.

**Old Man Ultramarine**

Witchblades are better, but spear has role. Just when you need it you don't have it. Spear is a shooty witchblade. You can crack the can and STILL assault the contents. Having to crack tanks in HtH is just fail. Leaves your squad open to getting shot AND assaulted. A role guardians probably don't like.

Yes, losing that HtH attack does hurt, but having options makes up for it. Agree?