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While I know that the loss of range for the Hellhound is pretty bad, its still a good tank. And with the ability to squadron, you can do some serious damage. A squadron of 3 will get a LOT of hits, which can cripple a horde quickly. Even if they are really close to the enemy, they will likely wipe it out. Plus, they will draw AT from the russes and artillery.

So, why no love?

It can put out hits, but it can't take hits.

pewpewpew.

What Nofasse 'Eadhunta said. While you can take more of them, the squadron rules make them more fragile - immobilized results = destroyed, not to mention the fact that in a squadron you have to spread the hits around (although you can use this to your advantage in certain situations - like using cover against ranged attacks). The other problem is, that the Hellhound not only lost range, it went up in points.

The other issue is that, frankly, while the Hellhound isn't terrible like, say, Ogryns, there are enough things in the Fast Attack slot for a similar price (Valks w/ Missile Pods, Vendettas) that are much better than the Hellhound - consequently, the HH gets kinda left in the dust.

Having NOT seen a copy of the new dex yet, this is a surprise to me. Does one of the new LRBT variants ignore cover now? Just seems silly that SM's can do it with the Whirlwind, but the IG (who 'invented' the ranged cover denial tank) can't anymore.

Yes, the Eradicator ignores cover - S6 AP4 36"-range pieplate, with standard Russ armor values - for only 30 points more than the Hellhound.

I personally like the look of the poison hellhound, though I'm not so sure my MC's will like it as much.

Get creed & an astropath

Give a squad of 2 banewolf hellhound vairents scouts, equip them with h.stubbers & h.flamers.

Outflank.

Wait a turn or three. Your weaker tanks arent being shot @ & enemy armor is being taken down but your variour weapons.....

Come in from a board egde of your choice & deicate basically any standard troop-type all while moving @ 12".
====

Got some cover-saving termies or oblits in cover? Get that plasma-gun/cannon/melta wielding infantry squad, open fire & use orders to force re-roll.

Im glad that orders can effect vehicles/mounted infantry as that would become overpowered x lots and lots.


(A hellhound can operate at longer ranges so wouldnt require outflanking to be completely effective & the same goes for the even longer range multi-taskable firefox thing (whatever its called).)

Death By Monkeys wrote:Yes, the Eradicator ignores cover - S6 AP4 36"-range pieplate, with standard Russ armor values - for only 30 points more than the Hellhound.

Worth noting, however, is that the Hellhound is Fast, not competing for a Heavy Support choice (admittedly not as big a deal as it used to be), and always hits.

So basically, if you take a Hellhound, take it because you can do something with it's speed, and because it's reliable, not just because it's a template that ignores cover. So if you need a tank that can operate on the flanks and attack with extreme reliability, then the Hellhound is probably what you want. It can hose down an objective for several turns before running up to contest towards the end of the game.

I'm not sure if it would be worth the points, but that usage plays to the Hellhound's strengths.

Right, now it's competing for slots with Valkyries and Vendettas.

I paid a fair amount of cash for mine....so its going to be played whether I like it or not!!!!!

Played a few games using the new codex and if used right banewolf is a realy nice +3sv squad killer. One game I killed an entire necron warrior squad with a single one and another game took out 2/3 of an 10 man assault squad and wounded his chap. The key is shield them or if you are up against assault armys keep them in reserve and watch the look on thier face when they reach your lines and they pop out and crush a squad .

Thanks for all the responses. I just looked at the GW website and realized for $13 more, I could get the Valk. Maybe with converted Chimeras.

I can just see a squadron of Hellhounds supported by some Tanks doing some serious damage. I mean, its one of the few weapons that auto-hits at range. That is pretty good.

Getting light tanks within' 12" of anything in 40k is instant death. The hellhound also doesn't have enough firepower to wipe people out. This is why hellhounds utterly suck now.

Vendettas on the other hand are great at keeping the hurt off and putting the hurt on for very similar points. Make Hellhounds a waste of time if you ask me...

But hellhounds can move like no other... Granted the vendettas and valks are probably better, because of the whole "new model" syndrome. But being able to moe 12" and then foire up to another 12" with a good flamer is not too bad. And if you do get charged you are getting hit on 6es.

As for variants tho, the melta-cannon is just cool.

Yes just about anything now adays can kill a a12 one but if used right they can cause alot of chaos. One of the best tactics with the new codex is take them as a squad of 2 with creed in your command. Give the unit scout with creeds special order if you have first turn pregame scout move them all out 18inch foward then turn 1 go 12 and burn out all the enemy range troops sitting in cover. Works very well and especially makes ork lootas cry

Ralzeki wrote:Yes just about anything now adays can kill a a12 one but if used right they can cause alot of chaos. One of the best tactics with the new codex is take them as a squad of 2 with creed in your command. Give the unit scout with creeds special order if you have first turn pregame scout move them all out 18inch foward then turn 1 go 12 and burn out all the enemy range troops sitting in cover. Works very well and especially makes ork lootas cry

They kill one unit, then you lose two KP's when they get slaughtered. Where you could have a valk getting KP's the whole game.

Having seen the rules for the new hellhound, and having played against them, I can assure you that they do not "suck."

With the old hellhound rules the template had to be placed fully within 24" of the tank.

With the new rules, only the narrow end of the template has to be within 12", and the fat end has to be farther away from the tank than the narrow end, so you're looking at something that stretches up to 20" from the tank (as the flame template is 8" long) combine that with the fast movement, and the fact that it no longer has to roll to hit... and you're looking at a well-used FA slot, although I would not recommend putting them in a squadron.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

Ralzeki wrote:Yes just about anything now adays can kill a a12 one but if used right they can cause alot of chaos. One of the best tactics with the new codex is take them as a squad of 2 with creed in your command. Give the unit scout with creeds special order if you have first turn pregame scout move them all out 18inch foward then turn 1 go 12 and burn out all the enemy range troops sitting in cover. Works very well and especially makes ork lootas cry

They kill one unit, then you lose two KP's when they get slaughtered. Where you could have a valk getting KP's the whole game.

Squadrons only give up 1 KP.



Hellhounds can still be effective, but they need to be used with care.

Either keep them back as a counter unit, or move them forward screened by other tanks/terrain.


But yeah, Valk with missile pods seems rather superior.

Guys, semi OT question i have.

Will people have problem with using hell hound count as
for heavy flamer chimeras?

The hellhound is simply too expensive for what it does.

It's vulnerable when it gets into firing range and struggles to kill enough MEQs to make a difference. It competes with some genuinely good options in the Fast attack slot, which will likely be maxed by many if not most IG players. It's role (shooting light to medium infantry) is not a particularly rare or difficult role to fit. And finally, the IG can take nearly as many russ hulls or artillery as it wants.

I think it was priced overly conservatively, which while not uncommon in the new codex is still very annoying.

LunaHound wrote:
Guys, semi OT question i have.

Will people have problem with using hell hound count as
for heavy flamer chimeras?

I can't imagine they would, if you didn't take any hellhounds, just Chimeras.

Thanks, thats a breath of relief then xD
(dont like how fragile hellhound is , and take up sentinel / valkyrie slot when chimera is soooooo much cheaper and troop choice)

Eh, my pathfinders are honestly just not scared of any of the other options that people are talking about using instead of Hellhounds. Cover saves are a big part of the metagame, so units that can deny them are very valuable.

I also think that a hellhound could see some good use agaisnt a ork player that is using a KFF to protect trukks. Str 6 against AV 10 open-topped is pretty decent, and it doesn't strike me as too hard to hit multiple trukks with one shot.

Chimera with 2 heavy flamer cost 55 points while

hell hound with +1 str flamer costs 133.

some how it really doesny seem to be worth fielding ><

LunaHound wrote:
Chimera with 2 heavy flamer cost 55 points while

hell hound with +1 str flamer costs 133.

some how it really doesny seem to be worth fielding ><

The chimera can only fire both heavy flamers if it doesn't move at all... which makes that pretty useless, and can only fire one heavy flamer if it moves up to 6".

The Hellhound can fire a flame template to hit things up to 20" away after it moves 12".

Heavy flamer chimeras don't really seem worth fielding...

Sorry for asking , which page describe that mode of firing ? i cant find anything on p50

Do you mean that extra 12" you are allowed to place away from the fire point?

I don't think anybody would argue that there aren't times when the Hellhound is ideal. What I think we would argue is that those times are much less common than setting up across from a player with plague marines/deathwing/assault terminators/mech eldar, and realizing that if you ever actually shoot the inferno cannon you will probably lose your tank and accomplish very little.

The chemical cannon looks more interesting to me, if only because it's more generally useful and can still scoot around contesting.

LunaHound wrote:Sorry for asking , which page describe that mode of firing ? i cant find anything on p50

Do you mean that extra 12" you are allowed to place away from the fire point?

The small end of the template has to be within 12" from the gun, and the template is 8" long. In the old version, the entire template had to be within 24", but with this version you only have to have the small end "in range."

It's honestly not that much lost range, and the fact that it auto-hits, and is mounted on a fast vehicle really makes up for it.

willydstyle wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Sorry for asking , which page describe that mode of firing ? i cant find anything on p50

Do you mean that extra 12" you are allowed to place away from the fire point?

The small end of the template has to be within 12" from the gun, and the template is 8" long. In the old version, the entire template had to be within 24", but with this version you only have to have the small end "in range."

It's honestly not that much lost range, and the fact that it auto-hits, and is mounted on a fast vehicle really makes up for it.

Not to beat a dead horse, but there's no way to shoot the weapon against a canny opponent and not leave an enemy unit within 12" of your tank. That means that barring bad terrain rolls, they will be able to assault it. Sure, only being hit on 6's helps, but all it takes is one krak grenade to hit to make it so that the hellhound probably never fires again. It also gives an a extra assault move to an enemy squad that you may want to keep back longer.

Polonius wrote:

willydstyle wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Sorry for asking , which page describe that mode of firing ? i cant find anything on p50

Do you mean that extra 12" you are allowed to place away from the fire point?

The small end of the template has to be within 12" from the gun, and the template is 8" long. In the old version, the entire template had to be within 24", but with this version you only have to have the small end "in range."

It's honestly not that much lost range, and the fact that it auto-hits, and is mounted on a fast vehicle really makes up for it.

Not to beat a dead horse, but there's no way to shoot the weapon against a canny opponent and not leave an enemy unit within 12" of your tank. That means that barring bad terrain rolls, they will be able to assault it. Sure, only being hit on 6's helps, but all it takes is one krak grenade to hit to make it so that the hellhound probably never fires again. It also gives an a extra assault move to an enemy squad that you may want to keep back longer.

You can easily hit a unit that is 13-19.5 inches away... the entire template does not have to be within 12". The small end has to be within 12" and the fat end just has to be farther from the tank than the small end. I believe the rules for the gun are in the actual army list section, rather than the unit description section of the codex, but I could be wrong. I read most of the codex, and the pertinent section several times over the weekend (played a friend using the new guard rules) and it's pretty clear that's how Hellhounds fire.