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Well, if that's the case than it's slightly better. I like that the IG finally have fast vehicle, and so I psyched about using my hellhounds, but I just can't think of a time I wouldn't rather have something else than a hound.

Eh, as an Eldar player that relies on a unit of pathfinders to be one of my scoring units, hellhounds scare the piss out of me. Also, a unit can never gain a benefit from going to ground against a hellhound, which is really good against units from many armies:

Scouts from SM (or any unit that is in ruins reinforced by a tech marine)
Daemons from CSM
Most of the units in Codex: Daemons
Nearly any unit in the Ork codex.
Anything without a 3+ save in the Eldar codex.
Nearly anything from the Tyranid codex.
I'm sure there's more too, but I don't want to think of it right now

If I played Guard, I think my FA choices would be two hellhounds and a banewolf (the melta one... could be getting the name mixed up) but NOT in a squadron.

willydstyle wrote:

If I played Guard, I think my FA choices would be two hellhounds and a banewolf (the melta one... could be getting the name mixed up) but NOT in a squadron.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but the bolded phrase is the most important part of your post.

Guard aren't scared of eldar pathfinders. Sure, we'll lose 2-4 models a turn from them, and take a pinning check, but they'll fire all game and probably not earn their points back. Sure, they can sit on an objective, that's what deep striking squads with flamers (in the old codex) or veterans in Valks (in the new codex) are for!

Nobody wins by trying to out shoot guard. I'd rather have the mobility of the valk than the burning of the hellhound any day, to actually take the fight to the opponent.

Add in the colossus, which is the same price, admittedly as a heavy, but also ignores cover, and the poor hound keeps falling away. A barebones Valk with a SWS and three flamers is only 20pts more than a hellhound, more durable, faster, can scout, outflank, score, and can still take pot shots at vehicles with the hell strike missiles.

I realize that guard aren't too afraid of the destructive power of pathfinders (although mine did kill a HH in the last game I played) but if you just let them sit on an objective in a Capture and Control or Seize Ground mission, or if you try to remove them with non-cover-save-denying means, then you're already fighting an uphill battle.

Also, a Valkyrie, since it's not a tank, will never, ever, ever be able to tank shock troops off of objectives.

Just because I'm not currently a guard player doesn't mean that I don't know their list and capabilities very well.

willydstyle wrote:Also, a Valkyrie, since it's not a tank, will never, ever, ever be able to tank shock troops off of objectives.

Who needs to tank shock models off objectives when a valk/vend has several large blast templates (one that ignores cover saves), heavy bolters, and lascannons to get them off objectives.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Also, a Valkyrie, since it's not a tank, will never, ever, ever be able to tank shock troops off of objectives.

Who needs to tank shock models off objectives when a valk/vend has several large blast templates (one that ignores cover saves), heavy bolters, and lascannons to get them off objectives.

Cover? It's pretty much standard procedure to go to ground with a unit on an objective, so 3+ saves against everything on that list except the Vendetta's missile pods, and those are one use only, AP5 weapons. I see the Hellhound as the unit you have in your back pocket to contest the enemy objective that you can't get to otherwise. The low profile (compared to the skimmers) makes it a lot tougher to take down as you can get more plentiful cover saves and/or block line of sight totally. If someone wants to kill a skimmer, they will, the same cannot be said of the Hellhound.

Also, the Hellhound keeps fighting longer. An immobilized result leaves the skimmers weapons trapped in the 45 degree arc that they were in last turn. The Hound has a turret, so remains more flexible in target selection.

I think both are reasonable choices, I just don't think that you take a Valk/Vend every time over the Hellhound.

willydstyle wrote:I realize that guard aren't too afraid of the destructive power of pathfinders (although mine did kill a HH in the last game I played) but if you just let them sit on an objective in a Capture and Control or Seize Ground mission, or if you try to remove them with non-cover-save-denying means, then you're already fighting an uphill battle.

Also, a Valkyrie, since it's not a tank, will never, ever, ever be able to tank shock troops off of objectives.

Just because I'm not currently a guard player doesn't mean that I don't know their list and capabilities very well.

My point with the valk comparison was that it can transport any unit, not just melta'd up vets. A SWS or PCS with flamers can ride in one very easily, and burn out pathfinders with ease. Running into stealthed light infantry holding objectives is something that will happen once every three games or so, and tkaing a 130 unti that struggles against other lists to deal with it is silly, when you can more easily field a solution with units that will already be in a take on all comers list (valks and flamer heavy squads). In addition, both the Eradicator and the Colossus ignore cover altogether as well, and they do so with longer range.

The hellhound simply suffers in comparison to the other units in the codex. It's harsh, but it's true.

What do you guys think of the Devil Dogs? Easily a waste of points or questionably decent unit?

Smashotron wrote:What do you guys think of the Devil Dogs? Easily a waste of points or questionably decent unit?

the latter. It has a roughly 24" threat range against AV14 (12" move + 12" of melta bonus), and will hit a landraider 1/3 of the time, and scatter but stay on a landraider roughly 45% of the time, for a pretty good chance of hitting. I'm not sure it's appreciably better than a PCS with four meltas in a chimera, but it has it's uses.

Polonius wrote:

Smashotron wrote:What do you guys think of the Devil Dogs? Easily a waste of points or questionably decent unit?

the latter. It has a roughly 24" threat range against AV14 (12" move + 12" of melta bonus), and will hit a landraider 1/3 of the time, and scatter but stay on a landraider roughly 45% of the time, for a pretty good chance of hitting. I'm not sure it's appreciably better than a PCS with four meltas in a chimera, but it has it's uses.

Having run the numbers to compare the PCS melta squad and the Devil Dog, the PCS melta squad is considerably better. However, a Devil Dog armed with a hull Multi-Melta is the best tank-killing vehicle the IG can field right now.