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So I'm putting my new Valkyrie together today and I must say, I'm very disappointed with the design of the model and how it goes together. As if it wasn't bad enough that the engines are modeled in three parts instead of two, the two top parts don't have any pegs. You have to match the lines on the top detail and hold it together perfectly in order to make it work. The cabin also goes together in a very awkward fashion and the pieces must be glued in a specific order or they won't go together at all. Both of these problems are exacerbated by the fact that they involve long thin pieces of plastic that warp easily. Several pieces were also cast very poorly and had snapped on the sprue because the plastic was too thin. This wasn't a normal case of a box getting jostled, this was a flaw in the casting. There are also more gaps in the model than a suburban mall because the parts just don't fit together at all.

All of this aside, the model looks amazing when it's assembled and I think it's worth building. It's just a pain to put together and after the horrendously designed Drop Pod, I guess I was expecting a lot worse. GW model design has really been faltering in the last couple of years. The new stuff just isn't designed as well as their stuff used to be. Very disappointing...

I think it is a trade off. The cooler the model looks (and the more options it has) the more difficult it will be to build.

Somnicide wrote:I think it is a trade off. The cooler the model looks (and the more options it has) the more difficult it will be to build.

Yeah I don't agree. The Land Raider, Rhino, etc... look awesome and went together very well. They have a superb amount of detail and the land raider even includes some clever moving parts that work quite well and aren't hard to assemble. I think a model like the Valkyrie has some design challenges that a tank doesn't have. But GW just didn't bother to put the time in to come up with good solutions to these challenges. It almost feels like the Valkyrie needs one or two more "re-writes" before it should have hit shelves.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:Both of these problems are exacerbated by the fact that they involve long thin pieces of plastic that warp easily. Several pieces were also cast very poorly and had snapped on the sprue because the plastic was too thin. This wasn't a normal case of a box getting jostled, this was a flaw in the casting. There are also more gaps in the model than a suburban mall because the parts just don't fit together at all.

Does that basically mean the whole batch ( pretty much all the existing valkyrie boxes ) will have the same problem you discribed?

Im having 2nd thoughts about getting them now ( since i wanted vendetta instead to start with )

Kasrkinlegion wrote:It almost feels like the Valkyrie needs one or two more "re-writes" before it should have hit shelves.

I find that to be the case with many GW products, not limited just to models.

In building the Stompa I found the same modeling issues and at this point in modeling history not providing some "guide pegs" or the like is simply unexcusable on GWs part. Again the model looks good once together but it seemed alsmost at times like they clipped pieces in half at odd points just to increase the number of pieces you get in the model kit. GW really seem s to make some odd choices when it comes to their products and their customer satisfaction.

LunaHound wrote:
Does that basically mean the whole batch ( pretty much all the existing valkyrie boxes ) will have the same problem you discribed?

Im having 2nd thoughts about getting them now ( since i wanted vendetta instead to start with )

Yeah there isn't going to be a separate Vendetta. The rumors are that forgeworld is doing a Vendetta upgrade kit. Given that adding TL lascannons is fairly trivial, I'll be converting mine...

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Does that basically mean the whole batch ( pretty much all the existing valkyrie boxes ) will have the same problem you discribed?

Im having 2nd thoughts about getting them now ( since i wanted vendetta instead to start with )

Yeah there isn't going to be a separate Vendetta. The rumors are that forgeworld is doing a Vendetta upgrade kit. Given that adding TL lascannons is fairly trivial, I'll be converting mine...

Yes , i was hoping by the time vendetta kit is released , maybe GW might have solved that problem ( maybe like stack the warpable sprue some other way )

GW doesn't really operate that way. It costs them thousands of dollars to develop a plastic sprue. Once they make one, they want to milk it for all they can. This is why we're still suffering with the awful Catachan minis and the abysmally designed Leman Russ and Chimera models. It takes a certain amount of sales for them to recoup the cost of the original plastic molds. They would have to redo the molds for the Valkyrie to fix the problems I was pointing out, and it's just not worth the money for them to do that.

So this is going to be the Valyrie model that you're going to have to build if you want one unfortunately. Maybe they'll do some kind of metal upgrade (metal is the opposite, cheap as hell to mold and make changes to) but I think it's going to have to be whatever Forgeworld puts out.

Edit:

Looks like I'm wrong... there's going to maybe be an upgrade kit for the Valkyrie to make it a Vendetta or a Vulture...

http://www.warseer.com/rumours/warhammer_40_000

I for o ne welcome our new broken sprues

Being renegade guard, being forced to patch up (even make new holes and patch them up!) gives my army character.

I find the complaints of no guide pegs/holes and ledges funny. I can recall a time way before GW when I built model airplanes and tanks that if you were lucky had a guide ridge for one side to fit in, and the glue bottle output was twice the size of the biggest point for glue to be placed.

*shrug*

I say bring me the challenge. GW kits are hardly a challenging assembly. The only one that sucks arse IMO is the land speeder as that thing never fits around all the support peices it has built in it. Rubber bands and clamps all the time for those stupid things.

hmmm. gotta disagree.

I just put mine together and it fit like a glove. There was 1 slightly warped part (a canopy sill). This was easily fixed w/ a hair dryer to give some flex then hold in the proper position over the clear canopy.

IMO the newer models are very finely engineered. It is important to play with the parts first to see how they fit together prior to applying glue even if it looks straight forward. They are more like a puzzle at times then a linear build. Better images in the instructions would help and part identification would be a bigger boon then recutting the model.

The benefit of this new fit is that it allows the models to be built without gaps and seams that are apparent in the older models (rhino...etc). Also the glue points and tabs are often "hidden" which means sloppy glue doen't get on the outside of your model. This new fit also means if you don't file your sprue connection points down to absolutely flat with the face of the piece IT WILL NOT FIT RIGHT. I mean even a slight ridge in one spot will cause you issues later on in the build.

The stompa would have had giant mold lines if it had been engineered w/ pegs aroung the body vs. the figer joint method it was given around the plating. As it stood everything fit togther very nicely. This results in a nicer model appearance for a begginer modeler IMO since the kit is built to disguise these lines.

The models actually require forthought and can't just be whipped out in an hour like some of the older kits but they are vastly superior. This is both fantasy and the 40K stuff.

The drop pod is a challenging kit but I've built 5 with no issue. the Radial symmetry of the model makes it a challenge to fit everything since you can't assemble it in stages but all at 1 time. I find that "tac welding" w/ a little superglue helps.


Again, this is my opion but I think it is a great looking model and went together in about 2.5 hours for me with a break for some glue to dry in spots.

Hordicant wrote:I find the complaints of no guide pegs/holes and ledges funny. I can recall a time way before GW when I built model airplanes and tanks that if you were lucky had a guide ridge for one side to fit in, and the glue bottle output was twice the size of the biggest point for glue to be placed.

I too have similar memories of my childhood, but they are just that, memories. Modern model airplanes and tanks are worlds apart from those crude older models, and almost as distant from what GW happens to produce. They go together well, look awesome, aren't any more fragile than GW gaming pieces, and so on. Indeed, compared to some of those (especially the ones produced in Japan or China), I'd hesitate to call GW plastics "models" at all.

I haven't even gotten mine and I am already disappointed that the Vendetta las cannons were not included in the kit. Yes there are bits available but for most of us that adds cost and is a hassle. I think bits might be the way to go as you can make a chin mounted twin link las cannon on a turret like modern fighters and gunships have instead of the one on the side that looks like its from WWII.

I was considering doing a total scratch build but apparently so far Valkyria Chronicles doesn't seem to have any aircraft so I probably will go with a Cobra theme for my IG.

As far as it being hard to build it can't be more annoying then the old metal steam tanks those had defects and were really hard to get to go together. might have to get their new plastic one for my third steam tank.

Hordicant wrote:I say bring me the challenge. GW kits are hardly a challenging assembly. The only one that sucks arse IMO is the land speeder as that thing never fits around all the support peices it has built in it. Rubber bands and clamps all the time for those stupid things.

I too like to assemble challenging models. Challenge should come from a model with exacting detail and a brutal amount of parts.

Tamiya is a good example of a company that makes models that are challenging to put together, but the result is amazing and the fit is very fine tuned.

http://www.tamiyausa.com/

GW is an example of a company that is very hit or miss with their plastic vehicle models lately. The Drop Pod is engineered abysmally. Instead of it having some kind of solid structure to work from, half the model is suspended from horrbly fitting fitting fins that were cast terribly. The Valkyrie is better but it has serious issues that are really unforgivable given the size of GW and the quality they're actually capable of.

Re:Jgemrich

I've been putting models together for 30 years. I know all the tricks. But I also know a good model when I see one. I'd rather sand down some mold lines than deal with ill fitting model with poorly engineered parts. A truly well engineered model will not show mold lines and fit together well. GW is capable of that, but the Drop Pod and the Valkyrie just drop the ball.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

Re:Jgemrich

I've been putting models together for 30 years. I know all the tricks. But I also know a good model when I see one. I'd rather sand down some mold lines than deal with ill fitting model with poorly engineered parts. A truly well engineered model will not show mold lines and fit together well. GW is capable of that, but the Drop Pod and the Valkyrie just drop the ball.

I'm glad you know a good model when you see it and that you've had 30 years experience, but when you talk about "holding" pieces together I assumed that you really didn't know all the tricks. And when you complained about a little warping or thin pieces that didn't say 30 years experience to me. Maybe it is my low standards.

Regarldess my comments were to the group and presented as counterpoints which outlined my experience with the Valk and other recent experiences with these models. In summary, your experience with the same kit wasn't mine.

jgemrich wrote:And when you complained about a little warping or thin pieces that didn't say 30 years experience to me. Maybe it is my low standards.

Regarldess my comments were to the group and presented as counterpoints which outlined my experience with the Valk and other recent experiences with these models. In summary, your experience with the same kit wasn't mine.

Not sure why anyone would think a model with significant warping in the parts is a good model. It's entirely possible that you got lucky and I ended up with a model from a bad batch. I don't really think that's the case as I have put two of them together now and had similar problems with both models.

Also not sure how you glue models together without holding the parts in your hands and touching the parts together. I've never learned the hands free technique for putting models together, but I'd really love to know your secret .

Kasrkinlegion wrote:
Also not sure how you glue models together without holding the parts in your hands and touching the parts together. I've never learned the hands free technique for putting models together, but I'd really love to know your secret .

Hands impart grease and other undesireable things to the equation that can effect your paint unless you wash post assembly. This could be over come with gloves.

But on top of this, rarely are your hands stable to hold a model together for the suffiecient period of time it takes plastic glue to set. There are a good variety of clamps, tweezers, and vices for this process depending on your needs.


http://www.hobbylinc.com/prods/raa.htm
http://www.hobbylinc.com/prods/ram.htm

...you haven't tried to assemble the Forge World Valkyries have you?

I still have nightmares about having to sand down the rear of the cockpit and the interior of the passenger compartment halves to fit.

jgemrich wrote:

Hands impart grease and other undesireable things to the equation that can effect your paint unless you wash post assembly. This could be over come with gloves.

But on top of this, rarely are your hands stable to hold a model together for the suffiecient period of time it takes plastic glue to set. There are a good variety of clamps, tweezers, and vices for this process depending on your needs.

GW models are not even close to being complicated enough to require that kind of gear. This is one of my problems with the Valkyrie. It takes a dozen steps to assemble the whole thing, and therefore should go together quickly and smoothly. This is far from the case however. When I'm gluing together entire suspension systems for a tank with 30 wheels, then I should have to resort to using tweezers and vices. Two out of three pieces of an engine housing that are 4" long, should pop together in a second. If the engine had 30 pieces, and I had to line some up manually, I wouldn't mind. But having this giant 4" section on the top of your model with no guides, where if you're off my few millimeters it ends up looking like crap is just bad design. One peg in there, which would have no effect on the already brutally long screamingly obvious mold line going right down the top of the model, would have made this infinitely easier to put together. Yeah I can make it fit perfectly and my engines look pretty good, but skill shouldn't have to compensate for a bad design.

Also, don't even get me started on these new flying stands. Who makes a flying stand that requires pinning? The whole point is that the work is done for you, otherwise just make your own flying stand. The base of the flying stand that attaches to the bottom of the Valkyrie doesn't even fit properly in the slot that it's intended for. My Valkyries, and I'm sure lots of other people's, will be on the ground.

It took me about 50 minutes to assemble my first (of nine) Valkyries, and that was mostly due to talking with people about the kit, and answering that "Yes, I am the fether that bought 9 Valkyries"

No warping or broken parts yet, just a bit of extra flash here and there.

jgemrich wrote:But on top of this, rarely are your hands stable to hold a model together for the suffiecient period of time it takes plastic glue to set. There are a good variety of clamps, tweezers, and vices for this process depending on your needs.

It's no superhuman feat to hold parts in alignment for extended periods of time, with epoxy for resin models, sometimes it takes fifteen. All you need to pull it off is something to get your mind off your hands, especially if they start cramping. The human hand is the most complex, most sensitive vise you can put your parts in, replacing it with a crude metal or plastic apparatus is often a recipe for disaster.

LunaHound wrote:

Kasrkinlegion wrote:Both of these problems are exacerbated by the fact that they involve long thin pieces of plastic that warp easily. Several pieces were also cast very poorly and had snapped on the sprue because the plastic was too thin. This wasn't a normal case of a box getting jostled, this was a flaw in the casting. There are also more gaps in the model than a suburban mall because the parts just don't fit together at all.

Does that basically mean the whole batch ( pretty much all the existing valkyrie boxes ) will have the same problem you discribed?

Im having 2nd thoughts about getting them now ( since i wanted vendetta instead to start with )

I wouldn't get cold feet about it in my opinion. FRom the one valkyrie i own so far it seems to be fine with few gaps from what i have noticed. Yeah some parts are quite a hassle to assemble, namely the cockpit area, the 2 side HBs, but thats all i could really complain about, the model looks great and i cant wait to start gaming with this bad boy. It may have just been a bad box he got

4 Valks Down, no problems.

My Valk was in perfect shape, went together easy. Much better than the Drop Pods...

And there actually are (kind of) a set of "guide" slots. They're where those two top parts match up with the bottom part as well as the interior component that provides detail for the rear of the thruster. If you glue the detail bit to the bottom half of the engine, then use it to line up the other two halves (making sure the pegs on the bottom part match with the guiding indentations on the upper sections) it comes together fairly easily. Just don't try to glue the two halves of the top together before dropping it onto the bottom.

My only gripe about the kit is no Vendetta option, an oversight I'm still working on a solution for. I may just grab a pair of Land Raider sponsons and invert them, attach them to the underside of the wing (where the Hellstrike Missiles/Rocket Pods go) and split a Razorback turret to put on either side of the cockpit. It's an inelegant solution, but it might work. Otherwise maybe FW will get it in gear...

Mine was soooo easy to put together, I got home from work at 6pm and my 8pm it was built and primed.

All the bits went together fine!

Anyone who says they are disappointed about this kit is a very hard to please person. We are paying £35 for a model that at the start of the year cost £82 and its now in plastic!

No more warped and bubble filled resin that needs washing and sanding!

Be happy people these are great times we are in!

Pifff...some people always need to complain.

The Valkyrie is very easy to put together, almost all parts fit very,very well together. I built one kit and am building the 2nd one now, it´s nearly finished. I think you can finish one entire kit in about 3 hours which includes filling down any small gaps etc. If you have problems holding parts together, get some rubber bands, a must for any slightly experienced modeller or hobbyist If you are unsure how to proceed in some stages of the build just dry fit the parts before glueing. With a little bit of common sense it´ll work out fine! All in all a great kit!

Grandmaster wrote:
Anyone who says they are disappointed about this kit is a very hard to please person. We are paying £35 for a model that at the start of the year cost £82 and its now in plastic!

To be honest, thats a very bad comparison to make statement on.

[quote=GrandmasterAnyone who says they are disappointed about this kit is a very hard to please person. We are paying £35 for a model that at the start of the year cost £82 and its now in plastic!
Be happy people these are great times we are in!

I thought the Valk model was okay.

Issues I had were:
assembling the main passenger compartment - bit fiddly as the side go under the front so both sides and the front have to get glued to the bottom at the same time. Not really a problem.
instructions for assembling the cockpit interior do not adequately show order, specifically that the weps officer needs his arms glued on before attaching the console. Could catch some people out.
exposed join down the top of the engines - that's poor design. There are plenty of other ways the engines could have been moulded or designed to avoid that.

Parts were clean with minimal mould lines. No defects or warpage. I'm also quite happy with the flying stand which is far superior to the old ones. I can only hope that any new skimmers will come with a mini version of this as it's a far superior design.

My biggest complaint is that the passenger compartment is bigger than it needs to be and makes the valk look a bit fat.