Sikh police want ballistic turban

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**Gwar!**

Sikh police want bulletproof turbans to be developed so they can serve as firearms officers and deal with public order, a newly-formed body says.

The British Sikh Police Association says Sikh officers cannot currently do such jobs, as their religion prohibits removing turbans to wear helmets.

But the organisation's chairman says he now intends to push for more research on suitable ballistic turban material.

The Home Office said each force needed to ensure religions were accommodated.

The British Sikh Police Association, set up last month to give Sikh officers across the UK an "officially recognised voice", said it wanted its members to play a full role in the police.

Sgt Kashmira Singh Mann, chairman of the association, told the BBC News website bulletproof turbans would allow such officers to abide by religious traditions as well as participate in all areas of the police service.

"We are looking at the issue because it stops Sikh officers serving in all roles," said the Thames Valley Police officer who is based in Slough, Berkshire.

"It is a frustration for them - we see our colleagues putting their lives on the line and we want to serve alongside them."

He said research had already begun to find a ballistic material for turbans, but that it would need to be passed by the Home Office before it could be used.

"We have put some feelers out and talks are on the agenda," he added.

The new association aims to support Sikh members of the service - said to number some 2,000 - and help forces to develop strategies to recruit, retain and progress Sikh officers and staff.

The Metropolitan Police Service and West Midlands Police have the largest number of Sikh staff.

West Midlands Police last year denied spending £100,000 on trying to adapt safety helmets to fit over turbans.

However, it said it had been working to solve the headgear issue, which it described as "problematic".

On the issue of bulletproof turbans, a Home Office spokeswoman said the government wanted a police service that "reflected the diverse communities it served".

"The more closely the police service reflects the people it serves, the more effectively it can protect and support that community," she said.

"It is down to individual forces to make reasonable adjustments to accommodate the religion of individual officers," she added.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am a tolerant person. But this just beyond comprehension. I respect your religion just fine, but it is not up to the Police force to accommodate your religious choice when designing equipment, it is their job to design equipment that will work in 99% of cases. What next? Kevlar Kippah? Stab Proof Mormon Underwear?

**LunaHound**

Well i respect their devotion to their religion ( even though its weird for westerner's point of view i guess ) so i support it.

**Orkeosaurus**

Can't they just, like, glue the turban on top of the helmet?

So it's like a turban-helmet? Or something?

That's what I'd do.

**Gwar!**

The problem is, they cannot fit the helmets designed for 99% of the Police force because of a Religious Choice. I'm all for letting people believe in whatever imaginary friends they want, but to ask (and knowing the way things work in the UK, it will soon be "Forced, with several people being Sacked") for them to spend a huge amount of money to accommodate you is beyond reasonable.

If I were to say I am a Jedi (a legal "Religion" in the UK now) and that according to my religion I must have Pink Flowers on all my protective bodygear and if you don't I will sue you, how can I be considered reasonable?

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

Gwar, I know, for a fact, that you already have pink flowers on your protective bodygear.

**Orkeosaurus**

They could just not wear helmets.

Get a really big, thick turban and that'll protect you! Make it from strips of Kevlar.

Sounds like the British police force isn't thinking outside of the box on this one.

**Gwar!**

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Gwar, I know, for a fact, that you already have pink flowers on your protective bodygear.

This may be true, But I don't get the Government (and by Extention, the Public's Tax Money) to pay for it do i?

**reds8n**

Gwar! wrote:
If I were to say I am a Jedi (a legal "Religion" in the UK now)

It's not. It was put on the census after all the fuss and as they twigged it would help attract more people to actually fill in the poxy things in the first place, but the figures were folded into the atheist numbers in the final count.

linky

**namegoeshere**

It would be fine if the Sikh organisation was paying. But instead the taxpayer is. Yes plenty of Sikh's are paying tax - but tax already has a lot better things to do. (And a lot of worse things that we shouldn't be doing but that is a different argument).

**Belphegor**

Maybe it has to due with some historical understanding: the Great Rebellion
If you want a population, you need to accommodate their needs, especially if they are already accommodating yours.

**sexiest_hero**

What's wrong with bullet proof turbans? Religion is big to lots of peoples. These people are citizens and not only pay taxes but want to serve. Besides bullet proof turbans sound cool!

"I'm all for letting people believe in whatever imaginary friends they want."

No need to be Insulting, I wouldn't call you an emty-souled godless heathen.

I find it interesting you fear beaing forced to do something,while at the same time wanted to force somebody else to conform to your standards. They shouldn't have to conform, Power to the people, V for Vendetta!

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

I don't see what the Grot Rebellion has to do with anything. As far as I know, that didn't last very long. It was also my understanding that cross necklaces were the religious items of preference when it came to blocking bullets (or that one last bullet, typically).

**generalgrog**

I don't see what the big deal is GWAR. The technology exists to make bullet proof headgear out of kevlar/composite materials. If it's possible to accomodate the Sikhs that is reasonable and isn't too burdonsome on the police force, I'm in favor of it.

GG

**Gwar!**

sexiest_hero wrote:No need to be Insulting, I wouldn't call you an emty-souled godless heathen.

You just did

And I have as much right to say my opinion as they do to practice their religion. I am not inciting hatred or any of that nonsense, and I apply it to whatever religion you want to be (Christian, Jew, Muslim etc), but to force a Secular Police force to unreasonably meet the demands of a tiny amount of Officers is, well, Unreasonable.

generalgrog wrote:I don't see what the big deal is GWAR. The technology exists to make bullet proof headgear out of kevlar/composite materials. If it's possible to accomodate the Sikhs that is reasonable and isn't too burdonsome on the police force, I'm in favor of it.

GG

That's not the point. I don't mind it. What I am saying is that I feel that it just starts them down an even more slippery slope than they are already on. If Sikhs get special headgear, why cant my Stab Proof Vest me made out of Kosher Materials?

**Belphegor**

to: Cannerus_The_Unbearable
I was pointing it out in reference to the problems that arise with ignoring the religious beliefs of people that serve in the military or police.
The Enfield cartridges in particular.
I thought it relevant as some cultural background, and why making accommodations for varied religious belief might be accepted.

**Belphegor**

Gwar!: why cant my Stab Proof Vest me made out of Kosher Materials

Are synthetics not Kosher?

**Gwar!**

Belphegor wrote:
Gwar!: why cant my Stab Proof Vest me made out of Kosher Materials
Are synthetics not Kosher?

Dude, you have NO idea how complex the rules are for Kosher Items. You do know they have a company in Israel that makes Kosher Telephones for the Orthodox Community?

**Orkeosaurus**

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I don't see what the Grot Rebellion has to do with anything.

The just cause of The Revolution has to do with everything, ork sympathiser!

**smiling Assassin**

I definately need a kevlar kippah.

sA

**Belphegor**

Gwar!: Dude, you have NO idea how complex the rules are for Kosher Items. You do know they have a company in Israel that makes Kosher Telephones for the Orthodox Community?

I don't know the complex rules for Kosher items.
What makes a Telephone Kosher?
Do you have a link?

**Grignard**

Gwar! wrote:The problem is, they cannot fit the helmets designed for 99% of the Police force because of a Religious Choice. I'm all for letting people believe in whatever imaginary friends they want, but to ask (and knowing the way things work in the UK, it will soon be "Forced, with several people being Sacked") for them to spend a huge amount of money to accommodate you is beyond reasonable.

If I were to say I am a Jedi (a legal "Religion" in the UK now) and that according to my religion I must have Pink Flowers on all my protective bodygear and if you don't I will sue you, how can I be considered reasonable?

I'm not a citizen of the UK, but I don't see the problem. And I'm hardly a champion of equality and political correctness. How expensive would it really be to accommodate these requests? Even given expense, is it unreasonable, from a practical standpoint, to provide this so that you'll have more motivated and less resentful civil servants? Speaking of Kosher, would you be against providing Kosher or Halal meals to soldiers or policemen, even though it is surely more expensive to do so? I also don't think this is an endorsement of religion by a secular body...I think it is removing religious barriers to participate in said secular body.

Most importantly, am I the only person who thinks a bulletproof turban would be cool as hell?

**Gwar!**

Grignard wrote:
Gwar! wrote:The problem is, they cannot fit the helmets designed for 99% of the Police force because of a Religious Choice. I'm all for letting people believe in whatever imaginary friends they want, but to ask (and knowing the way things work in the UK, it will soon be "Forced, with several people being Sacked") for them to spend a huge amount of money to accommodate you is beyond reasonable.

If I were to say I am a Jedi (a legal "Religion" in the UK now) and that according to my religion I must have Pink Flowers on all my protective bodygear and if you don't I will sue you, how can I be considered reasonable?

I'm not a citizen of the UK, but I don't see the problem. And I'm hardly a champion of equality and political correctness. How expensive would it really be to accommodate these requests? Even given expense, is it unreasonable, from a practical standpoint, to provide this so that you'll have more motivated and less resentful civil servants? Speaking of Kosher, would you be against providing Kosher or Halal meals to soldiers or policemen, even though it is surely more expensive to do so? I also don't think this is an endorsement of religion by a secular body...I think it is removing religious barriers to participate in said secular body.

Most importantly, am I the only person who thinks a bulletproof turban would be cool as hell?

Well if you start doing that, what is to stop Devout Christians forcing the Police force not to serve Meat on Fridays and then suing them for Offence if they allow anyone else to eat it? A Secular Force should be that, Secular. It doesn't support 1 Religion over another. This IS a clear example of doing just that.

As for the rules for Kosher, this site gives a very brief overview of what the rules (for food anyway) are, and here is a news story about Kosher telephones.

**BrookM**

Oh come on now, next thing you know we might be seeing more Gurkha bobbies.

**Gwar!**

BrookM wrote:Oh come on now, next thing you know we might be seeing more Gurkha bobbies.

Errr, Letting people who fought and died (OK not the people who actually died but you know what I mean) for the Crown to live in the country they so valiantly served and spending taxpayers money because a tiny amount of bobbies want their religion treated better than everyone else's are hardly comparable.

**BrookM**

You really sound like the kind of guy who reads the Sun and takes it serious.

**Gwar!**

BrookM wrote:You really sound like the kind of guy who reads the Sun and takes it serious.

Now I take that as a Serious Insult and I want an apology. I'm fething serious. I would rather cut off my testicles with a spoon than read that racist gak. As I said before, I am not some BNP skinhead. I am actually very liberal and not even "fully" English (I've Russian and Italian Blood in me so I do) but I still feel that this is just another example of the failure of "Multiculturalism". If you want to live in England, you abide by English laws and practices. if that means you are one of the 0.0001% of people who cannot wear a protective helmet because of a choice you make, then that is your problem, not the taxpayers. yes I know it is your "religion" that you cannot take it off, but that doesn;t mean we have to bend over backwards for you.

**BrookM**

Go to London and make a case of it? You seem very passionate about it.

**Gwar!**

BrookM wrote:Go to London and make a case of it? You seem very passionate about it.

I cant. I so much as think it is wrong I'll be arrested for "inciting hatred" and kept locked up for 43 days without charge.

**Nofasse 'Eadhunta**

So what does this Ballistic Turban do? Raise your Ballistic Skill by 2? How many points does it cost? My Big Mek could sure use one...

**Grignard**

Gwar! wrote:
Grignard wrote:
Gwar! wrote:The problem is, they cannot fit the helmets designed for 99% of the Police force because of a Religious Choice. I'm all for letting people believe in whatever imaginary friends they want, but to ask (and knowing the way things work in the UK, it will soon be "Forced, with several people being Sacked") for them to spend a huge amount of money to accommodate you is beyond reasonable.

If I were to say I am a Jedi (a legal "Religion" in the UK now) and that according to my religion I must have Pink Flowers on all my protective bodygear and if you don't I will sue you, how can I be considered reasonable?

I'm not a citizen of the UK, but I don't see the problem. And I'm hardly a champion of equality and political correctness. How expensive would it really be to accommodate these requests? Even given expense, is it unreasonable, from a practical standpoint, to provide this so that you'll have more motivated and less resentful civil servants? Speaking of Kosher, would you be against providing Kosher or Halal meals to soldiers or policemen, even though it is surely more expensive to do so? I also don't think this is an endorsement of religion by a secular body...I think it is removing religious barriers to participate in said secular body.

Most importantly, am I the only person who thinks a bulletproof turban would be cool as hell?
Well if you start doing that, what is to stop Devout Christians forcing the Police force not to serve Meat on Fridays and then suing them for Offence if they allow anyone else to eat it? A Secular Force should be that, Secular. It doesn't support 1 Religion over another. This IS a clear example of doing just that.

As for the rules for Kosher, this site gives a very brief overview of what the rules (for food anyway) are, and here is a news story about Kosher telephones.

That is a bad analogy and a slippery slope. It doesn't sound like they are forcing anyone to do anything. They aren't making everyone else wear turbans. In fact, in the strictest sense, they're not even asking for special equipment, just a different variation of standard kit. There is even a precedent for this....did the British empire not equip local forces fighting for them with a mix of "modern" equipment and their traditional garb way back in the 19th century? I know Americans on both sides in the civil war sometimes adopted "foreign" uniform styles for romantic effect, at least until the war got serious and stopped being a game.