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Gwar! wrote:

BrookM wrote:Go to London and make a case of it? You seem very passionate about it.

I cant. I so much as think it is wrong I'll be arrested for "inciting hatred" and kept locked up for 43 days without charge.

I agree that our friends in the UK have gone overboard as far as putting people's sensitivities above freedom of speech, but do you really think you'd be arrested for voicing your opinion that it is a waste of money?

Give them the damn turbans. Who cares. If they are unable to serve because of a religious reason so simple as headgear just develop the damn headgear and get another wave of cops on the street.

Boo hoo gwar, your tax money may possibly at some point be maybe spent on the police forces equipment maybe. Given the ludicrous amount of graft in the UK political system and the laughably needless expenditure in other areas I don't see why you picket this so bad.

I cant. I so much as think it is wrong I'll be arrested for "inciting hatred" and kept locked up for 43 days without charge.

Yeah, you're not important enough for that.

If you want to live in England, you abide by English laws and practices.

Yeah, I'm sorry but english laws and practices have nothing to do with headgear. You're just drawing a ridiculous line in the sand when what you should be doing is championing the inclusion of mixed ethno/religious units in your police force. Are you pissed off that schools have to serve vegetarian meals too? A governments job is to accommodate the needs of its populace, not follow your "british way".

I want a ballistic yarmulke.

Will it be a turban with a chinstrap?

Sorry, I really cant see the issue here.

Lets not forget that many Sikhs fought and died to protect the commonwealth and the turban formed a part of their uniform. If its good enough for them to wear on our behalf in battle then there no reason to disallow them to wear one whilst policing us.

Its nothing to do with pandering to minorities. It's a simple gesture of respect to a group of people doing a very dangerous job which benefits all of society.

Annnnnd this is one of the many overly PC reasons why so many real problems never get fixed. This is just crazy. For such a small % of the force...and they want a bullet proof headress made just for them. How about we fix some of the problems in the world that are actually important before waisting money on this...maybe some universal health care or something? All these little pointless things governments waist money on adds up over the years.

And dont tell me the force is going to come up with all this money themselves...of course they will get government help coming up with all this cash to waist on something so silly. Even if force did have to pay for all of this....then how about putting this bullet proof headress money to good use....and hiring some people that dont have crazy demands. Using this money to hire more cops...would be money much better spent......

keep waisting money on stupid things...and the real problems never get fixed.

Yeah, or maybe we could spend the money on more police officers. :rolleyes:

brad3104 wrote:Annnnnd this is one of the many overly PC reasons why so many real problems never get fixed. This is just crazy. For such a small % of the force...and they want a bullet proof headress made just for them. How about we fix some of the problems in the world that are actually important before waisting money on this...maybe some universal health care or something? All these little pointless things governments waist money on adds up over the years.

And dont tell me the force is going to come up with all this money themselves...of course they will get government help coming up with all this cash to waist on something so silly. Even if force did have to pay for all of this....then how about putting this bullet proof headress money to good use....and hiring some people that dont have crazy demands. Using this money to hire more cops...would be money much better spent......

keep waisting money on stupid things...and the real problems never get fixed.

No...its not important to *you*, for them, it may be very important. Do you really think that doing this or not would make a difference in something like healthcare? They're going to have to pay for helmets anyhow, what is the big deal with having a different style of helmet for these men? I don't even see this as a PC issue, as nothing is really being forced on anyone here.

There is a lot of hubub here. If I were a cop I'd opt for the bullet proof turban. Those things are stylish and very cool.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Boo hoo gwar, your tax money may possibly at some point be maybe spent on the police forces equipment maybe. Given the ludicrous amount of graft in the UK political system and the laughably needless expenditure in other areas I don't see why you picket this so bad.

You are right! What`s a few million extra pounds for the police when British MPs are claiming 95 million in personal expenses like porn movies, horse manure, plants, one bathtub and the cleaning bill for a persian rug.

M.

No...its not important to *you*, for them, it may be very important.

Then they should pay for it, if the force already supplies an item that is suitable for the job but unsuitable for your fashion tastes you should be fiscally responsible for finding a suitable replacement.

Grignard wrote:

brad3104 wrote:Annnnnd this is one of the many overly PC reasons why so many real problems never get fixed. This is just crazy. For such a small % of the force...and they want a bullet proof headress made just for them. How about we fix some of the problems in the world that are actually important before waisting money on this...maybe some universal health care or something? All these little pointless things governments waist money on adds up over the years.

And dont tell me the force is going to come up with all this money themselves...of course they will get government help coming up with all this cash to waist on something so silly. Even if force did have to pay for all of this....then how about putting this bullet proof headress money to good use....and hiring some people that dont have crazy demands. Using this money to hire more cops...would be money much better spent......

keep waisting money on stupid things...and the real problems never get fixed.

No...its not important to *you*, for them, it may be very important. Do you really think that doing this or not would make a difference in something like healthcare? They're going to have to pay for helmets anyhow, what is the big deal with having a different style of helmet for these men? I don't even see this as a PC issue, as nothing is really being forced on anyone here.

Like i said. This special helmet isnt free. Its going to cost money to devolp and produce all becuase a certain group of people cant remove a headdress for the part of the work day that requires a regular helmet. Tell me this isnt at least a little crazy with a straight face. It would be one thing if this group of people were paying for at least part of this. But nope the police or government will end up picking up the entire tab so they can meet every groups silly demands.

Yes of course new technologies cost money to develop but that doesn’t mean its not worth doing. Besides don't you think that the material and technology required to make such an item will have countless other applications as well? Any cost will easily be recouped.

Its not fair to call this a silly demand, it’s a perfectly reasonable request and pointless rants about 'efl n saftey' or 'PC gorrnn maad' are not only inaccurate but could mean loosing many good potential officers in our firearms units. Or are you seriously suggesting that because they have a different religion they don't deserve the same level of protection as the rest of the force?

Are you seriously suggesting that a certain group of people should be able to have every demmand and want met? no matter how small or silly. There are already helmets that are perfectly fine....every single other police officer seems to be able put one on. Why should this group of people get something special at someone elses expense? If they want special helmets cuz they follow a certain god...it shold come out of their pockets....

I dont like wearing certain pieces of my uniform at work...and i sure would like a different type of uniform. Am i going to get some special treatment? nope. Why should this group of people? And a bullet proof turban seems like a pretty silly reauest to me.

Basically you either want to integrate different cultural groups into your national identity, or you want to exclude and marginalise minority groups.

If you want integration then all reasonable steps should be taken to accommodate minorities. For example, Quakers and other conscientious objectors were allowed to serve in the armed forces in non-combatant positions such as medical services.

A bullet-proof turban sounds perfectly practical and could become a major export item to the Indian police and army, thus easily solving any cost problem.

A nation should never be turning away people who want to serve.

I know the us army is completely open to everybody, Even if you cant fire a gun you can serve as an Chaplin or medical troop. consiter this a smal downpayment for years of additional personnel.

Bullet proof turbans-0.1 of budget.

Inclusion-Priceless

brad3104 wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that a certain group of people should be able to have every demmand and want met? no matter how small or silly. There are already helmets that are perfectly fine....every single other police officer seems to be able put one on. Why should this group of people get something special at someone elses expense? If they want special helmets cuz they follow a certain god...it shold come out of their pockets....

I dont like wearing certain pieces of my uniform at work...and i sure would like a different type of uniform. Am i going to get some special treatment? nope. Why should this group of people? And a bullet proof turban seems like a pretty silly reauest to me.

You can't equate not simply liking somthing to a religious requirement. Doing so makes you sound like a petulant child.

Its not like the officers are asking for a fundemental aspect of the job to be changed for them or to perform any less duties or exposed be exposed to any less danger than non Sikh colleagues. These officers want to serve the country, they want to protect us. I don't see hows its productive or sensible to deny a little flexibily if the end result is a dedicated police officer.

Like it or not integration actually does actually cut both ways. By showing a little give and take you end up with minorities integrating far more sucessfully than by stamping your feet and scream 'Its PC gorn mad' if you see somone with a slightly different hat. Segregation and resentment don't help anyone. Though it does give Daily Mail readers a sense of smug satisfaction.

LuciusAR wrote:

brad3104 wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that a certain group of people should be able to have every demmand and want met? no matter how small or silly. There are already helmets that are perfectly fine....every single other police officer seems to be able put one on. Why should this group of people get something special at someone elses expense? If they want special helmets cuz they follow a certain god...it shold come out of their pockets....

I dont like wearing certain pieces of my uniform at work...and i sure would like a different type of uniform. Am i going to get some special treatment? nope. Why should this group of people? And a bullet proof turban seems like a pretty silly reauest to me.

You can't equate not simply liking somthing to a religious requirement. Doing so makes you sound like a petulant child.

This just sounds like a typical case of ignorant american. It is a rampent problem... way more prevelent in the south but systemic to some degree or another. Curing said problem seems impossible at the moment but might right itself someday.

reds8n wrote:

It's not. It was put on the census after all the fuss and as they twigged it would help attract more people to actually fill in the poxy things in the first place, but the figures were folded into the atheist numbers in the final count.

linky

Jedi was never printed on the census, alot of people just wrote it in on the 'other:please specify' box.

Kilkrazy wrote:

A nation should never be turning away people who want to serve.

Damn right, if we have British Sikhs wanting to serve and protect this nation and LAY THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE, then which part of getting them protective headgear that accommodates their religious views is so difficult to grasp. If the matter was pork on the menu at the canteen for a Jewish police man, it wouldn't be an issue, and that has feth all to do with keeping the officer alive.

"In the last two world wars 83,005 turban wearing Sikh soldiers were killed and 109,045 were wounded. They all died or were wounded for the freedom of Britain and the world, and during shell fire, with no other protection but the turban, the symbol of their faith."
General Sir Frank Messervy

If we have the ability to create a helmet that will keep a Sikh officer alive whilst they defend the rights and uphold the laws of our nation, I am Fully behind this. Frankly if your not, take their place at the front line. This country Is wasting money left right and centre on all manner of stupid and pointless things, this is not one of them.

Gwar, stay the feth away from the Daily Mail.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

A nation should never be turning away people who want to serve.

Damn right, if we have British Sikhs wanting to serve and protect this nation and LAY THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE, then which part of getting them protective headgear that accommodates their religious views is so difficult to grasp. If the matter was pork on the menu at the canteen for a Jewish police man, it wouldn't be an issue, and that has feth all to do with keeping the officer alive.

"In the last two world wars 83,005 turban wearing Sikh soldiers were killed and 109,045 were wounded. They all died or were wounded for the freedom of Britain and the world, and during shell fire, with no other protection but the turban, the symbol of their faith."
General Sir Frank Messervy

If we have the ability to create a helmet that will keep a Sikh officer alive whilst they defend the rights and uphold the laws of our nation, I am Fully behind this. Frankly if your not, take their place at the front line. This country Is wasting money left right and centre on all manner of stupid and pointless things, this is not one of them.

Gwar, stay the feth away from the Daily Mail.

Well said sir.

I dont know how many Sikh police officers there are in the UK. But, this request still seems crazy no matter what...and im glad to see there are some that agree. The reason for wanting a special helmet is personal. The personal reason is ones religion. Why should this group of people be allowed something special, especially at someone elses expense. Well because its religion of course. And the government has to be all PC. You guys have fun talking about this lol. Too many PC religious people in here.

Greebynog wrote:Yeah, or maybe we could spend the money on more police officers. :rolleyes:

Well Said Sir

Gwar! wrote:

Greebynog wrote:Yeah, or maybe we could spend the money on more police officers. :rolleyes:

Well Said Sir

Yup

brad3104 wrote:I dont know how many Sikh police officers there are in the UK. But, this request still seems crazy no matter what...and im glad to see there are some that agree. The reason for wanting a special helmet is personal. The personal reason is ones religion. Why should this group of people be allowed something special, especially at someone elses expense. Well because its religion of course. And the government has to be all PC. You guys have fun talking about this lol. Too many PC religious people in here.

The reason why a particular religious group should be allowed a special helmet is because we want to include all religions in our armed and police forces, as within other aspects of civil society.

If we don't, then we send a clear signal to all non-white, non-Christian citizens that they are second-class and aren't wanted. A sensible nation accepts talent and dedication from people based on their values and behaviour in support of our society, not the colour of their skin or what kind of hat they wear.

Mod:

I got an alert on this thread regarding personal attacks, so I will remind users to confine their statements to the argument and not other individuals.

Rule no.1 etc.

Thank you.

Kilkrazy wrote:

brad3104 wrote:I dont know how many Sikh police officers there are in the UK. But, this request still seems crazy no matter what...and im glad to see there are some that agree. The reason for wanting a special helmet is personal. The personal reason is ones religion. Why should this group of people be allowed something special, especially at someone elses expense. Well because its religion of course. And the government has to be all PC. You guys have fun talking about this lol. Too many PC religious people in here.

The reason why a particular religious group should be allowed a special helmet is because we want to include all religions in our armed and police forces, as within other aspects of civil society.

If we don't, then we send a clear signal to all non-white, non-Christian citizens that they are second-class and aren't wanted. A sensible nation accepts talent and dedication from people based on their values and behaviour in support of our society, not the colour of their skin or what kind of hat they wear.

I disagree. By Pandering to every unreasonable request, the message is that "If you are non-white, non-Christian or Foreign we will treat you better than the other 90% of the country."

The sad part is that is already true in the UK.

No-one's saying unreasonable requests are going to be pandered to.

You assume the request for a ballistic turban is unreasonable, then condemn it.

It's perfectly reasonable for a Sikh to request bulletproof headgear, and if it can be provided for reasonable cost, it should be.

Nearly all English law depends on the concept of reasonable.

Kilkrazy wrote:

If we don't, then we send a clear signal to all non-white, non-Christian citizens that they are second-class and aren't wanted. A sensible nation accepts talent and dedication from people based on their values and behaviour in support of our society, not the colour of their skin or what kind of hat they wear.

Sounds similar to the US army kicking out Arabic translators at a time when we needed them the most on "don't ask don't tell" violations. Highly specialized persons, but well, we can't have them in the army because they might have said they like taking it in the pooper. You know... if they can get the job done, then they should be able to stick it or be stuck wherever they want in their off time.

Kilkrazy wrote:Nearly all English law depends on the concept of reasonable.

That's correct, but how is it reasonable to ask, nay, demand, that the taxpayer foot the bill to develop headgear just because you choose to follow XYZ religion. No matter how you look at it, that is Pandering, plain and simple.