Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm back to watching my B5 DVDs halfway through season 1 now, just saw Signs and Portents.

Londo's speech about wanting the Centari to stretch out its hand and take back the stars is great. It reminds me a lot of some of the things patriotic young Chinese are saying...

Anyway, question for fans longer in the tooth than I, anyone know where the name comes from?

Babylon is symbolic of decadence and divine punishment. I imagine that's the real life reason JMS picked it. Is there an in universe reason for it?

Is it a Tower of Babel reference? So by naming it thus, Earth tried to create a place
where people of many cultures could come together. Just a guess.

Babylon is also symbolic of cosmopolitanism. It was the first truly 'global' city. I think that was meant to be the overt, in universe, slant on the name.

It's Babylon 5 because it was the FIFTH station to be built for the purpose.

The name itself was meant to be a combination of 'babylon' - a cosmopolitan meeting place and tower-of-babel where multiple cultures without common language could mix.

chromedog wrote:It's Babylon 5 because it was the FIFTH station to be built for the purpose.

that doesn't make sense, surely they'd call it Babylon V.

Nah, that part I knew.

chromedog wrote:The name itself was meant to be a combination of 'babylon' - a cosmopolitan meeting place and tower-of-babel where multiple cultures without common language could mix.

It's a great pick for a name, very evocative.

I'm almost done with Season 1 now but the TV tropes are bugging me. Like how come the commander himself is taking out fighters and shuttles to investigate stuff rather than sending his squads of pilots and troops to do. that's something Star Trek TNG and Battlestar Galactica did well so it bugs me.

That and that whole serving military officer as a UN ambassador.

DIPLOMACY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
That and that whole serving military officer as a UN ambassador.

DIPLOMACY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

It does when the race that almost rended humans extinct offer to cofund the station and lend it serious political weight on the provisio that one individual is sent there... Sinclair.

As for him going out in his Starfury, well that is major plot device/tv thingy but it is explained away by him being a fury pilot since forever (he was in a starfury at the Battle of the Line) and him stretching his legs due to getting 'bored', Ivanova frequently complains about it and it gets overruled rather than the Trek original series idea that captains always go on away missions cos there might be something worth impregnating on the planet...

Also, being called Babylon, whilst suitable due to the meeting of all the cultures, also lends weight to the predicted downfall of the place in Signs and Portents.

"This place shall fall, Babylon Shall Fall, All will burn!!!" or something along those lines from the Centauri prophetess. The fall of the Tower of Babel is so strong an image it remains with us as the Lighting Struck Tower card from the tarot, the card that predicts great and terrible events.

That is why this series owned so beautifully. Well, that and the Londo and G'kar story arcs and acting.

Yes Season II is where it starts to get epic. Still some clunkiness but its like a juggernaut hitting its stride.


What do you want?

Frazzled wrote:Yes Season II is where it starts to get epic. Still some clunkiness but its like a juggernaut hitting its stride.


What do you want?

The Juggernaut has a name... the Name Is John 'Starkiller' Sheridan...


Oh and Frazzled...

Who Are You?

Mamma!

We have always been here...except not really.

Pah I see your pathetic Shadow Vessel and raise you this.

Just starting season 2, Sherridan is a bit too smiley after Sinclair but I can deal.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Just starting season 2, Sherridan is a bit too smiley after Sinclair but I can deal.

Yep, first few episodes I hated him, loathed him... end of Series 2 I couldn't imagine B5 without him, wait till he's into the dark times, then Starkiller comes to the fore and he's feckin awesome.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Just starting season 2, Sherridan is a bit too smiley after Sinclair but I can deal.

Yep, first few episodes I hated him, loathed him... end of Series 2 I couldn't imagine B5 without him, wait till he's into the dark times, then Starkiller comes to the fore and he's feckin awesome.

Agree on all points there MGS, I still preferred Sinclair to Sheriden, but when the gak really hits the fan you could not imagine Sinclair leading them through it.

Great show. Sherridan is the man. He owns all in the end. Sinclair gets the ball rolling, but he is too emotional to lead them through the war.

In the end I really feel sorry for Londo. He gets the short straw.

Careful now folks, I for one am tempted to veer this thread into B5 fanboi stuff but I will resist since Kid_Kyoto is watching it fresh.

We must avoid spoilers for the guy!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Careful now folks, I for one am tempted to veer this thread into B5 fanboi stuff but I will resist since Kid_Kyoto is watching it fresh.

We must avoid spoilers for the guy!

No real worries about spoilers I caught it on and off when it was on (I saw about half the first season and then bits of the 2-3) plus the various DVD movies, so I know how it ends. Just enjoying the voyage this time.

Barring the 15 year old CGI it holds up well.

Did you see season 4? If not then you really don't know how it ends.

(real fanbois don't acknowledge a season 5 even exists-its just a filthy rumor spread by star trek geeks)

99MDeery wrote:Pah I see your pathetic Shadow Vessel and raise you this.

I acknowledge your puny tentacle contraption and raise you to one Cyclops Kitten.



sA

Frazzled wrote:Did you see season 4? If not then you really don't know how it ends.

(real fanbois don't acknowledge a season 5 even exists-its just a filthy rumor spread by star trek geeks)

Nope none of it. I remember lots of nerd rage over how the shadow war ends though.

I loved it. It fit the whole concept of B5. I'm an going to edit the headline-no spoilers for you else you will be displeased.

B5 is made of win (except for the fx).

Sheridan was annoying at first but you later find out he is made of Awesome.

It has to be remembered this is the first time anyone tried CG. It was way ahead of the competition at the time.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:B5 is made of win (except for the fx).

Ironically when B5 first came out the CGI was exactly what me and my friends used to rave about, for its time it was amazingly cutting edge, even more so considering it had about a quarter of the budget of Star Trek: TNG. I think it was the first TV show to make extensive use of CGI. It's easy to laugh at this now but imagine what in looked like in 1993. The Wow factor was unbelievable. Not only that but the space battles just felt more 'Epic'.

It also had Aliens that actually looked like Aliens. Not just forehead wrinkles or pointy ears but weird twisted creatures. You could even tell that though had been put into how they may have evolved.

I still think it’s a shame that outside of Sci-Fi/Gaming circles its still relatively unknown. Its quite possibly the most daring show I've ever seen and it's a real shame that the short sightness of the studio execs mean that we ended up with a rushed 4th season and a half arsed 5th one instead of the full majesty of MJS's original vision.

The CGI now looks very dated, but I still remember seeing the vorlon ship's hull colouring moving and being amazed and the epic battles that are to come in the 3rd and 4th series are still beautiful.

This series was epic and win for many reasons. I was asked once why, other than an ongoing story arc, it was better than star trek ever was, my answer is this - despite having 'filler' episodes like ST had, in the ST ones Troi would get a migrane for an episode, in the B5 ones an entire race (a commonly seen in series race) would be eradicated by a plague or it would focus on one of the minor players and give a fascinating insight (I love Sic Transit Vir, great episode), those fillers Actually filled the B5 universe and added, not leaving you feeling cheated like the STtNG I sat down to watch on tv the other night and it was that gakky imaginary friend one, so boring I switched it off after 20 mins.

I am also going to state for the record that Andreas Katsulas was an awesome actor and the world is lessened by his loss, G'Kar's journey to enlightenment through the series, mirrored by Londo's Faustian descent into damnation (also brilliant by Peter Jurrasik) was amazing viewing and despite strong acting from all the other cast, amazing stories and epic space battles, it was those two that made the series for me, the episodes that focussed on them are my most loved.

dammit...nostalgia..building...must...watch again...

Oh yeah, not knocking the CGI, especially when you compare it to what ST-TNG, DS9 and V'gr had.

After I finish B5 I have all of DS9 ready to go.

Someday, I need to take a week off work and watch as many episodes as I can. It was a brilliant series.

Mind you, they didn't know that TNT picked up Season 5 until real late in Season 4. As a result, they seemed to 'rush' Season 4 and try to conclude the series, while still leaving an opening for doing something in Season 5. I'm sad that there really hasn't been anything close to B5 on TV since. Firefly had a great start, but was quickly killed on the vine. I thought the first season or two of Lost was really good, but haven't cared too much for the last two seasons.

I'd say BSG surpasses it, of course I still have to see the second half of season 4.

Frazzled wrote:It has to be remembered this is the first time anyone tried CG. It was way ahead of the competition at the time.

&

LuciusAR wrote:Ironically when B5 first came out the CGI was exactly what me and my friends used to rave about, for its time it was amazingly cutting edge, even more so considering it had about a quarter of the budget of Star Trek: TNG. I think it was the first TV show to make extensive use of CGI. It's easy to laugh at this now but imagine what in looked like in 1993. The Wow factor was unbelievable. Not only that but the space battles just felt more 'Epic'.

Don't get me wrong It was the only CGI at the time and it was pioneering in its own way but when you look at DS9 which was a contempory, it looks fairly shabby (though it did improve later on Man I love Whitestars).
And as much as I love pretty fx, I'll take storyline over it any day. Just look at Enterprise it was beautiful but that didn't help it as the stories sucked(until the 4th season but by then it was too late)

Kid_Kyoto wrote:After I finish B5 I have all of DS9 ready to go.

DS9 is awesome in its own way, but it isn't B5

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I'd say BSG surpasses it, of course I still have to see the second half of season 4.

I never got into BSG. Don't know why. Enough people like it, but it never struck me as something that I needed to watch. I think the director's style didn't appeal to me for a sci-fi show.

Great series since B5, I would put The Shield on the short list, even though it wasn't remotely sci-fi.