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How is everyone finding them? I came up against a 1500pt IG list tonight with two Psyker Battle squads, was really nails. 1st squad makes your unit Ld2, second squad fires at you with the S9 large blast and forces a morale check... That'll be my warboss and 10 Nobs running off the board then.

To be honest, I knew the game was going to go badly when at the end of turn one an armoured sentinel with no weapons had managed to beat 5 deffkoptas in close combat, and run them down destroying the unit.

Please post thread about how 40K units perform in the 40K Tactics forum.

Moving now. . .

I think they will be great against Orks but Mech, Fearless, stubborn and ATSKNF will cause them to be useless against a lot of armies.

I had one game where PBS bought me valuable time by making incoming squads flee from shooting damage.

I had another game where my PBS rolled horrible for most of the game and did almost nothing.


They're good to have, and my list will always have at least one unit of them, but don't forget that overall firepower is what wins you games.

I have not regretted fielding Psyker Battle Squads so far. They will not always win games for you, but they're damn good support units.

I think alot of people are expecting them to do alot themselves. People also seem to forget they have a blast attack too, which can be S9. They have some very "killer" combos that they can do with other units, especially Inquisitor units. a S9 template is nothing to scoff at. even with a variable ap it is nice and versatile. and i've yet to roll over 3 for the ap yet.

a callidus + PBS = ID (well anything that's not immune to ID) I've done it to a Carnifex that was out of Synapse because i killed all the Synapse around it.

Most ATSKNF units can still be pinned. Ratlings + PBS = pinned for most units.

I never leave home without at least one squad. Two starts to get "unfriendly".

Although, I love people who try to PBS against my Eldar and their Runes of Warding... It is great watching all those little wannabe psykers blowing their heads up non-stop

ATSKNF is not a problem if you have a unit within 6" of them to keep them from rallying, either.

They have been working well for me. I have generally only fielded one squad of 8 psychers and one overseer. Str8, and lowering LD to 2 works good enough for me.

yakface wrote:
Please post thread about how 40K units perform in the 40K Tactics forum.

Moving now. . .

Thanks for actually telling ME. I'd lost this thread for 2 days because I didn't know wher it had been moved to.

PBS are great against the current hot army lists (Nob Bikes and such) but once everyone has gotten used to and adapted their lists to the new threats the IG book poses, I think they'll be a lot less prevalent. There are too many things that minimize or flat out ignore WR that are available to other armies. Going Mech is a great solution and the new IG book seems to be pushing the meta in that direction. Until everything has shifted and people have gotten comfortable with it though, you can expect to see PBS running around doing some scary things.

Marines and eldar have a little advantage when facing these as the perils of the warp test really screws them with Eldar and Marines can get a psychic hood.


IG can get a inquisitor with psychic hood as well.


The armies I see them most effective against is Chaos, Dark Eldar, Orks

heh heh heh. I have a game against black templars coming up this week. Psyker Battle Squads will probably win me the game.

Black templars aside the PBS have been good to me. The blast is a great, and mean amazing, back-up against fearless armies. The PBS in a chimera is a great light tank in this regard.

hmm, I think the majority of things that see regular play in competitive Chaos armies are in tanks, fearless, or both. PBS is pretty bad in that matchup lol.

It ruins Orks badly, as well as Kairos. This turns 2 important matchups against things you can expect to see around the top tables into games that the IG army has solid odds to win.

My real question concerning the PBS is weather or not it is going to validate the Vanquisher (72" melta property tank, 8/2) in comp builds. The PBS/Chimera (PBSC?) will have alot of fun dealing with the contents of a rhino/raider/what-have-you after the Vanq blows it away. Probably building one with pask and a lascannon later tonight to test it out. That would effectively make it bs4 & vs. armor str 9)

eh, the PBS doesn't really make the Vanquisher a solid choice. People playing lots of heavy armor and mechanized lists makes the Vanquisher a solid choice. Also keep in mind people are going to stocking up on fearless/stubborn units to try and fight WR, so the PBS will have less of a good time beating on whatever falls out of the tanks. Demolishers and Executioners are ideal for that type of role since they can flatten whatever they shoot at with relative ease.

I plan on testing a Paskquisher in the very near future. I'm searching for the ideal long range AT solution for my mechanized guard so I'll be toying with a Manticore, BBS Medusa and a Paskquisher. I've also considered running 2 BS3 Vanqs with Lascannons as a squadron, but that is 310pts of stuff that is strictly good against armor and useless against anything else, so I'm not exactly excited about it.

Yah long range AT is a pain in the butt. I've tried medusas, manticores and the vanquisher and I'm unconvinced by all 3 of them..need more testing :/.

Medusa seemed the best choice originally but at 12/10/10 its so easy to shake/weapon destroy especially if you dont buy armoured crew compartment (which is pretty suicidal on a direct fire only str 10 tank), manticore is easier to protect but less lethal and a little inaccurate if behind cover. Vanquisher seems the best but missing 2-3 shots in a row will make you want to throw the tank out the window xD.

I await your results with baited breath =P.

Consider Hydra's for your long range AT role. Granted its only a str7 but: its four twin linked str7 shots. And for the cost of a vanquisher or medusa you can get two Hydras, so you increase the survivability of the unit while getting eight twin linked str7 shots. Granted you arent going to get the pen hits like a Pask-vanquisher or a medusa but you are going to destroy armor 12 or less.

As a plus, the hydras will work well against hordes and will give bikes and skimmers pause.

Heavy armor is another matter, but only a few lists run 14 armor. Dig out the lascannons for those guys.


Sliggoth

PS
Almost forgot my pbs comment. I find them squishy, but thats because I have only played against them so far and have always had a farseer on the field to help them have their heads explode. Love the guard codex but there is no way I can get a guard army onto the field anytime soon. So many figs, so little time to paint......sigh.

I find it really sad that people say that PBS are good against Orks. The truth is that the only Ork builds that PBS are good against are KoS/Biker Nobs, due to samll unit size.

PBS does nothing against BW spam...20 boys in a BW. It is also pretty useles against Green Tide with 30 boy mobs.

PBS can be useful against Lootas; however, if the Orks go first, they will anihilate the PBS and/or their Chimera transport, since Lootas outrange the PBS by 12".

Sligghoth "Heavy armor is another matter, but only a few lists run 14 armor. Dig out the lascannons for those guys. " and "Hydras are good" (paraphrasing that last one a bit )

Hyrdas are amazing for their points and 2-3 is a great choice for what you are describing. Heck, it it the way to deal with the majority of transpos. The problem is the all-mighty land raider and the dreaded LR Redeemer. Guard NEED to stop units like this soon if they are running mech lists and the vanq is looking like the tank for the task, if you add Pask. Sponsonizing them with PC's might help their versatility too by giving them an anti tough guy mode (2 PC's) and an anti tank mode (LC, vanq turret) and I think will compliment the PBS heavy lists quite nicely. I just built one actually and I'll (maybe remember to) post up some results.

Sliggoth wrote:Consider Hydra's for your long range AT role. Granted its only a str7 but: its four twin linked str7 shots. And for the cost of a vanquisher or medusa you can get two Hydras, so you increase the survivability of the unit while getting eight twin linked str7 shots. Granted you arent going to get the pen hits like a Pask-vanquisher or a medusa but you are going to destroy armor 12 or less.

As a plus, the hydras will work well against hordes and will give bikes and skimmers pause.

Heavy armor is another matter, but only a few lists run 14 armor. Dig out the lascannons for those guys.


Sliggoth

PS
Almost forgot my pbs comment. I find them squishy, but thats because I have only played against them so far and have always had a farseer on the field to help them have their heads explode. Love the guard codex but there is no way I can get a guard army onto the field anytime soon. So many figs, so little time to paint......sigh.

eh, you're going to see LOTS of Battlewagons in competitive Ork lists in the near future, and they're AV14 in the front so unless you can bomb around the sides of them, have fun shooting those Autocannons at something they can't kill. Once they're in melta range they're close enough that the units inside can eat your army, so meltas don't workthe best here. Land Raiders are also popular already and will become more popular since they are good against IG. Other IG armies are likely going to be bringing 2-5 LRBT/variants to the table, and they need to be dealt with (and you won't be getting close enough to melta them). Necrons (yes, they're bad in 5th, but still) can and probably will bring at least 2 Liths to the table if they are trying to compete at all. Predators are AV13 up front and Hydras can only glance them.

Basically, Hydras are great for their role, which is to shred transports and ignore SMF cover saves. They don't answer the long ranged AT firepower question though, and lascannons don't have good odds against AV14 so it is worth trying to find a better solution.

Of course PBS is going to be subpar against Eldar, RoW really hurts them badly. They still make the matchups against Orks and Fatecrusher very managable (the latter especially managable if thereis an IQ+Mystics on the table too). Since there are at least 3 very strong builds coming from the Orks book, it is a worthwhile investment for a competitive army right now since it greatly infleunces at least 4-5 matchups that you are likely to find at the top tables. PBS is by no means end all-be all and obviously there are answers to the threat is poses, but it is very good against a chunk of the top tier armies right now, which makes it something that an IG player who is planning on being at the top tables needs to very seriously consider.

Main question: Is the PBS cost-effective even when it's main use (leadership nerfing) is not usable? Is the S9 template from a Chimera a decent buy in a tourney list where at least 1/3rd to 1/2 of opponents will be mech or fearless?

I've got a beastman-based LaTD army cooking in my head, featuring 2x PBS, with the cheese balanced out by taking 2x Penal squads as a handicap/flavor agent. If they're worth the points, I'm off to buy the bitz!

Savnock wrote:Main question: Is the PBS cost-effective even when it's main use (leadership nerfing) is not usable?

It's close... but i don't think so. PBS just fell out of my list this week. One minor reason is that YMDC is still boiling over with back and forth. Please don't run with this in this particular discussion thread, but I believe that mob rule and rites of battle counter WR, and so, although completely devastating to certain armies, I don't feel it is ubiquitous enough to rely on for take all comers. The major reason I'm not going to take them, is that I have found that my harder IG lists don't even need them. It is a 'win more' ability against certain armies, and it is an overcosted tank versus others.

They are certainly a 'good' unit. But they aren't currently blowing my mind.

Nobody thought of this combo?

Command squad in Chimera
Inqusitor in dedicated transport
2 Psyker Battle Squads in Chimeras
1 Culexus assasin within 12" of them

"Target on my Command"/"Bring it down!"

PEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEW!

Like a Punisher, but the gun is AP1.

19 Str 5 AP1 shots that hit on 2+ and potentially re-roll misses? Yes please!

It's been thought of, it's just very hard to pull off.

There's also a question of whether or not the PBS is 1 psyker or 9.

it is 9 psykers. it only counts as one for the purposes of resolving its power.

Try running one witchhunter inquisitor with hammer the witches, if you face the PBS. d6 of those 9 have to pass the test, or d3 get gakked.

They provide a new kind of support unit. Very scary in some circumstances.

Mine killed 2 units of terminators last night by rolling 1 1 & 2 for ap and no scatter. Not typical results but pretty darn snappy in a game where they also forced a Devistator squad off of the table! They played a good role in maintaining my lifetime undefeated record against vanilla marines. Now those blood angels... I hate those guys

I have been running a single squad of 8 pykers and have been pleased with the results. I would not want to take two squads, but I find one squad (in a chimera) provides me with a valuable tool for taking on most armies.

And S8 pie never hurts