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So... jetbikes provide Relentless, which effectively makes any heavy weapon an assault weapon. Give the Autarch a Laser Lance and Mandiblasters and partner him with a unit of Silver Spears. He gets a 48" S5 AP3 Heavy(Assault) 2 weapon to go along with the Exarchs Shuriken Cannon to soften up a unit before smashing it with S6 power weapons.

Autarchs might be lackluster compared to Farseers, but you get all this for 155 points (approximately anyway - my codex isn't with me at the moment), not counting the SS unit. How do you feel about this build?

That's a well known build called the God-tarch.

Very true. Very effective but also very very fragile. Be aware of where you are when you win combat. If you're out in the open the prized unit is dead immediately.

That's one of the benefits of sticking him in the SS unit - give the Exarch Withdraw and they'll hit and run, making being in the open less of an issue. The fully tooled Shining Spear unit is pricey, though. I'm still working from memory, but it's about 250 points for 5 models with exarch, cannon, starlance and both exarch powers. That totals about 400 points for a single unit with the HQ.

Compare that to a similarly numbered and "fully involved" Bikeseer Council:

Farseer with Bike, Runes of Ward, Stones, Spear, Fortune, Doom
5 warlocks with Bikes, Spear x3, Enhance, Embolden, Destructor x3

That runs about.... um... 450 points? Field both and you have an anvil in the seer council and a nice hammer in the Shining Spear unit. Pricey, true, but in a 1750-2k game I'd give it a shot. Play it as Windrider Host, use 3-4 6-man Guardian Jetbike squads, and a Fire Prism or two.

This tactic works very well, as long as you have a large jetbike squad to back him up.

Exactly

It's also very fragile in the face of high-volume shooting (which is the Spears' basic problem in the first place). Even rapid fire from bolters can take the unit down. A jetbike escort helps keep some rapid fire away, but not enough to make it anything but a very risky buy.

I play a similar unit frequently (except I field a fusion gun on the Autarch, having found him more useful for antitank, given his maneuverability). fielding such an exarch, you pretty much _always_ include him in Spears. It's fun, but not competitive. If you do field multiple units of jetbikes, it helps even the odds in combat. It can also keep up with Serpent-mounted troops.

The disadvantage compared to a Bike Council is, again, fragility. Councils' invuln. with Fortune is a huge boon, and the destructive potential is about the same (especially in later rounds). Withdraw is nice for re-charging, but living long enough to do so against MEQ is iffy.

A 6-8man GJS + jetbike warlock with enhance, a couple shuriken cannons, mandi-blaster, shuriken pistol, laser lance; all for many power attacks backed up with a good handful of str3 WS4 I5 attacks. Your not required to wipe a squad in close-combat, simply cripple it.

Its cheaper, more shooty (loose the expensive reaper cannon in favour of +1a with the lance in CC) and can have alot more bodies.

Shining spears = expensive overkill.

Since the autarch can add both a 1h and a 2h weapon, take both a lance and the reaper launcher if you want it all.


Sliggoth

Exactly, Slig. The lance also counts as a 1-h weapon and can be used in conjunction with the pistol the Autarch comes with and Mandiblasters for +2 extra attacks with a S6 power weapon. Not shabby. EDIT: I fergot me special weapon rules... duhr! They'd only get +1 for the mandiblasters.

Raz, they are expensive, no doubt, but I feel they fit a nice role as a hammer against heavy/mobile units. The autarch adds another member to the squad (I use him in most lists as an additional aspect warrior) and provides a bit of the flexibility that Exarchs had in their 2nd edition incarnation.

I'm not saying I want exarchs to go back to those old rules, but like Savnock stated above, giving the autarch a fusion gun on a jetbike is a combination of fast movement and counter armor

The reaper cannon on jetbike build basically gives a lower strength, higher AP shuriken cannon with assault 2 instead of 3. It's more expensive than a GJB Shuricannon, but the Exarch's high WS provides a significant advantage.

The autarch also gets smoked by hidden powerfists (even guard fists!) and mid strength shooting, being only T3.

Except they all get 4+ invulnerable saves and if they move fast they can only be hit on 6's, right?

It was good in the 4th ed, but not in the current incarnation of the game.

The reason is that the Autarch can be targeted if she's on her own. Area terrain does not block TLOS and so hiding the Autarch is almost impossible.

Bikes do not count as skimmers, so they get hit based on WS.

Why would the Autarch not get +2 attacks when equipped with a Mandiblaster and Laser Lance? Do the rules for the Mandiblaster state that it counts as a close combat weapon, or just that it confers an extra attack?

madiblaster adds 1 attack

If you give her a laser lance let her lead a squad of Shining Spears and add a Farseer on jetbike with fortune for increased resilience.

Gavin Thorne wrote:So... jetbikes provide Relentless, which effectively makes any heavy weapon an assault weapon. Give the Autarch a Laser Lance and Mandiblasters and partner him with a unit of Silver Spears. He gets a 48" S5 AP3 Heavy(Assault) 2 weapon to go along with the Exarchs Shuriken Cannon to soften up a unit before smashing it with S6 power weapons.

I prefer to use a reaper launcher on a foot Autarch in a defensive list. If you want the autarch for his command abilities giving him a Reaper Launcher allows the model to claw back his points costs shooting MEq. If you want a more offensive Autarch I would stick with mandiblasters and laser lance. Because of where you need to put your autarch, and because you want to get him into close combat as soon as possible I see little need to upgun him. The fusion gun being an notable exception, killing a couple of Meq prior to combat at that points level doesn't wash, but all but guaranteeing you can melt a tank however is a bargain for +10pts.

Please remember that while a reaper launcher gets you two extra attacks in on the attack run, you only miss one with the fusion gun installed. However S6 power weapons are ideal for killing termies and other high end opponents, repaer launchers dont really help there as much as a fusion gun, especially with multiple wound 2+ save models like Broadsides. I can see a fusion gun actually being better than a Reaper launcher at killing many of the priority targets for a Shining Spear Autarch attack.

The laser lance counts as a power weapon, and as such you get the bonus attack for 2CCW still - only powerfists, lightning claws, thunderhammers etc are SPECIFICALLY listed as requiring 2 of the same weapon in order to gain the extra attack.

Nothing in mandiblasters overrides / negates this, therefore you indeed get +2 attacks.

Mandiblasters add +1A to the profile, irregardless of what you are armed with, it is not an off-hand weapon like a pistol and it doesnt use pistol rules, its an off-head weapon.

Orlanth wrote:Mandiblasters add +1A to the profile, irregardless of what you are armed with, it is not an off-hand weapon like a pistol and it doesnt use pistol rules, its an off-head weapon.

Correction: Mandibalsters are not weapons at all. They are wargear that add +1A.

This means that you get +1A from mandibalsters, +1A from 2 CCWs (lance+pistol), +1A from charging (if you charge), fora total of 6 S6 PW attacks on the charge, with the Autarch listed in the OP.

That is not bad; in fact, it is great for the cost. However, for the same points, you can get Yriel or the Avatar, both whom outshine the JB Autarch in CC. So, unless you are playing an almost complete Jetbike army, the cost of the JB Autarch + is Shining Spears is prohibitive. In anything but a Bike based army, Yriel or the Avatar will usually be a better use of points, because a Fortuned Avatar is VERY tough to kill, and Yriel can be hidden in a WS with either your Council or another tough CC unit.

The point is, is that the profile of the 'Tarch does not state he loses the pistol to gain the Reaper Launcher - thus he can use it still with the Lance to gain the extra attack for 2CCWs. Hope that clarifies things.

Personally - when I use a full Jetlock Council list I take a Fusion Gun, so the unit he's with can pop a transport and charge the unit inside... And then I don't need to lose cc Witchblade attacks to using singing spears.

I can see the fusion autarch adding a nice punch to the jetlock council, save some points, and let the locks get more attacks. Nice efficiency there.

I'm planning to run a jetbike list and want to use both a council and spears, alternately using Farseers and an autarch to HQ the list. I'm going to make my own version of Yriel as well. It's too bad you can't put him on a jetbike...

Gavin Thorne wrote:That's one of the benefits of sticking him in the SS unit - give the Exarch Withdraw and they'll hit and run, making being in the open less of an issue.

Instead, the Exarch will get mauled in CC, because he is an IC.

Erhm....?

The Autarch will get Mauled, sorry. Always confuse those two...

Orlanth wrote:Mandiblasters add +1A to the profile, irregardless of what you are armed with, it is not an off-hand weapon like a pistol and it doesnt use pistol rules, its an off-head weapon.

I'm sorry to be off-topic, but "irregardless" is not a real word.

terminus wrote:
I'm sorry to be off-topic, but "irregardless" is not a real word.

Actually, it is. Hilariously, it's a synonym of regardless.

ON Topic, I feel almost everything that can be said about the matter has been said.
The pros of using an Autarch this way are: powerful, and with a little adjusting capable of handling varying opponents. (if you're going to face foot-slogging, maybe the reaper is best, vehicles and transports want a Plasma.)
The cons are: he's very fragile without a squad, but squads with him are expensive enough to make other options more desirable.

Irregardless actually is not a "real" word. Look it up.

When I use my Autarch I keep him in a WS usually with my Banshees who he can help out a decent amount.

The only other way I think he would be competitive is with a bike and joining a bike squad. The hawk wings and jump generator just don't quite make the cut, even though they do look awesome.

AllWillFall2Me wrote:

terminus wrote:
I'm sorry to be off-topic, but "irregardless" is not a real word.

Actually, it is. Hilariously, it's a synonym of regardless.

No, it isn't. It's an illogical word that's using two negative prefixes. It invalidates itself. Look it up.

edit: I apologize again for the off-topic post, I just can't keep myself from trying to staunch one of the many gashing wounds inflicted on the English language on a daily basis.