Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As you may know cali just had ton of props that would save us
all were voted down by the voters execpt limiting pay for legislators
we have all these plan and no money(ya for saving the delta smelt but killing the farming industry near there)
why are californians such dumpasses
we have all these ideas that we vote for but we vote down taxes for that pay for them
another thing is that most states get there income from property tax
but in the 70s we voted to freze that tax
i think we need bailout from the state

What the...?

Beg pardon?

how do you not understand

You aren't coming across very clearly. Please use a spell checker and better grammar.

garret wrote:As you may know cali just had ton of props that would save us
all were voted down by the voters execpt limiting pay for legislators
we have all these plan and no money(ya for saving the delta smelt but killing the farming industry near there)
why are californians such dumpasses
we have all these ideas that we vote for but we vote down taxes for that pay for them
another thing is that most states get there income from property tax
but in the 70s we voted to freze that tax
i think we need bailout from the state

How about the state government living within it's means and not soaking the taxpayers of the state with the bill? We already pay some of the highest taxes in the country, state wise, and people don't want to be soaked for more. The propositions that failed (thank god) would increase the tax burden on an overtaxed population.

I did use one DAMMIT!!!!!!!!

I understood that!

But the rest? Can someone PLEASE clarify?

As you may know, California just had a ton of propositions made that would save us; all were voted down except the ones limiting pay for legislators. We have all these plans and no money. (Yay for saving the delta smelt, but killing the farming industry near there.)

Why are Californians such dumbasses? We have all these ideas that we vote for, but we vote down any increases in our taxes to pay for them.
(Another thing is that most states get their income from property tax, but in the 70s we voted to freeze that tax. I think we need a bailout from the state.)

To answer your question. yes California is in loads of trouble.
I suggest moving to a small state like Montana or Idaho, we are not as broke.... =D

Does this mean I can have pie now?

I think what he is trying to say is:

California, despite being one of the WORLD'S largest economies (not just of the U.S.) is in a severe financial crisis and has been for many years.

The biggest issue is that in the 1970s we passed a proposition (Prop 13) that froze increases on property taxes, which are a HUGE part of a state's revenue, so for nearly 40 years California's property tax has been kept artificially low. While this is great for homeowners it is detrimental to the state government's ability to function.

The problem is, California's real estate prices are still astonishingly high. While many parts of the country have watched the prices of their homes plummet, California's dipped a little but has remained fairly flat.

As a homeowner, when you're already paying a huge amount for your mortgage, the last thing you want to happen is to have your property taxes raised. This is why Prop 13 has remained in effect since the 1970s.


California is a state that allows any member of the public (with enough signatures) to introduce measures (propositions) onto the ballot to be voted on. This is how Prop 13 got on the ballot in the 70s and was passed.

Anyway, we just recently had our elections for this year and there were a number of propositions on the ballot to help bailout our economy through a variety of different types of taxes and they were all voted down. I think with people losing their jobs all over the place when given the option whether to have themselves taxed or not most people in this state are willing to 'pass the buck' and look for the government to magically fix its issues some other way.


Hope you enjoyed this window into California!

California, at times, is an interesting illustration of the problems of direct democracy. With one of the most democratic (small 'd') constitutions in the US almost anyone can propose referendums. Recalling leaders is easy too, so is getting on the ballot.

Back in 2004 Grey Davis got recalled for raising car taxes.

In the election to replace him there were a couple of hundred candidates including Gary Coleman and some pr0n stars. the ballot was like 40 pages long and in random order. I forget who won, some washed up action star IIRC.

So you have voters who can cap taxes AND require the government to spend a fortune on projects they like.

It's a recepie for disaster.

Having one's cake and eating it too, I guess.

CA uses property taxes as a main source? I thought most states relied on income/sales tax. I've always thought of property tax as the most "regressive" of the bunch. I mean, it can be claimed that your tax rate won't be raised, but then your property gets assessed higher. I wonder if that's the next step in CA.

ZF-

IIRC CA has income taxes. Also IIRC but they have some of the highest combined taxes assessed in the nation (when included various fees a person has to pay yearly on average).

This combined with the flight of higher paying jobs out of state the the inevitable burst of the speculative real estate bubble has slammed Cali hard. Plus they wouldn't know how to balance a budget if it bit them in the face.

But you have Arnie in charge, surely that has to count for something?

But Yakface is right, the last thing anyone wants in a recession is for your state or country to start taxing more and more it just won't happen.

Its already happening.

Thats how depressions are made.

True that, I've just finished uni, feth like i'm going to be getting a job anytime soon and I live in blighty.

Considering you've just made that massive wall Frazz can I move to Texas? Its to keep American's out but you said nothing about the English!

California is getting fethed upside down and backwards, right into the ocean...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:California, at times, is an interesting illustration of the problems of direct democracy. With one of the most democratic (small 'd') constitutions in the US almost anyone can propose referendums. Recalling leaders is easy too, so is getting on the ballot.

Back in 2004 Grey Davis got recalled for raising car taxes.

In the election to replace him there were a couple of hundred candidates including Gary Coleman and some pr0n stars. the ballot was like 40 pages long and in random order. I forget who won, some washed up action star IIRC.

So you have voters who can cap taxes AND require the government to spend a fortune on projects they like.

It's a recepie for disaster.

God... you know I could have sworn that Skynet won that election and he put this guy in charge

and our solution is to legalize weed

My fiancee is looking at California as a potential move spot due to the fact that our majors are both in film and animation and that is the best place in the country to get jobs in our field. I, however, am a little bit leery of moving to a place that, not only is it suffering from its economic trouble, is perpetually on fire and sinking. Could any CA residents give some insight on what it's like to live there? As someone who has never lived in a town with a population of more than 3000 since age 7 or so, I have no perspective on a place with such a high population density.

99MDeery wrote:True that, I've just finished uni, feth like i'm going to be getting a job anytime soon and I live in blighty.

Considering you've just made that massive wall Frazz can I move to Texas? Its to keep American's out but you said nothing about the English!

You can move to SW Missouri. We have interesting weather, lots of country music, and nearly the lowest cost of living in the US. Of course some of the lowest wages, but it evens out. There is also lots of fishing and spots for killing wildlife.

Edit: California is way fethed and will drag the rest of us with her.

California brings this upon itself by being generally stupid.

Did you know California has its own emission laws, that require many companies to have alternate 'california' models and parts. Look carefully at some of your hobby supplies, on several, you'll see "This product contains chemicals known to the State of California".

All this stuff takes money. Having extra laws takes money. California consistently enacts laws without any way to pay for them. And then they expect the federal government to bail them out, with federal funds and federal deficit spending. In essence, the rest of us are covering the bill for California's excess.

They don't need to raise taxes, but they do need to cut services, especially the stupid "California only' services until they can pay their bills with the money they have.

Darkreaver55 wrote:My fiancee is looking at California as a potential move spot due to the fact that our majors are both in film and animation and that is the best place in the country to get jobs in our field. I, however, am a little bit leery of moving to a place that, not only is it suffering from its economic trouble, is perpetually on fire and sinking. Could any CA residents give some insight on what it's like to live there? As someone who has never lived in a town with a population of more than 3000 since age 7 or so, I have no perspective on a place with such a high population density.

Noo yawk city?

Lots of film and animation jobs, exciting night life, no need to own a car, and it's the center of the known universe.

Indiana had problems with our Property tax situation as well. It is still being finalized, but it SHOULD go into the state constitution that proerty tax cannot cost more than 1% of a home's value.

Which is good, because over the last couple years some people saw their property tax rates go up more than 400%. And that isn't a typo.

Imagine paying say, $200 ($2400)per year in property tax. Then you get a six MONTH bill for $2900. Then another bill six months later for $3800. That happened to people here. Friggin' ridiculous.

Indianapolis' budget is pretty messed up. Starting to piss me off a bit.

yakface wrote:
California is a state that allows any member of the public (with enough signatures) to introduce measures (propositions) onto the ballot to be voted on.

Yes, ladies and gentleman, more democracy does necessarily lead to a better government.

Don't forget the history here. That was put in place asa a reaction to a lack of politician responsiveness to the people. Kind of like, well now.

Vox Populi!

But, at least, we're slapping the Arnie and the legislature into telling them to do their damn jobs.

(We voted to deny them raises if the state runs a deficit, which seems more than fair, given that they're handing out furloughs and layoff notices like they were candy).

And yes, this is a very stupid state.