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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090526/pl_nm/us_gaymarriage_california_ruling_3

Excellent. Now this can continue to be hashed out in the era of ideas and not creating the horror of judicial dictatorship stifling the process. I am confident some sort of pro gay marriage bill will pass in California in the next two years if the ballot box is used.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/26 18:35:59


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




Indiana

It'll be interesting to see how this continues. I was surprised the ban was even enacted to begin with.

DT:80+S+G+M-B--IPw40k08+D++A++/hwd348R++T(T)DM+
http://youngpride.wordpress.com

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

It's good that the courts upheld the ban.

I'm against it myself, but it needs to be a legislative issue.

Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




Indiana

Orkeosaurus wrote:It's good that the courts upheld the ban.

I'm against it myself, but it needs to be a legislative issue.

Curious as to why you think its a legislative issue...


Edit: Misread both article and post. I agree with Orkeosaurus. Should be legislative. Actually, I wish that marriage wouldn't be defined by the government but that civil unions would be instead. Marriage has close ties with religion and I prefer the government not to define marriage for me or anyone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/26 18:56:17


DT:80+S+G+M-B--IPw40k08+D++A++/hwd348R++T(T)DM+
http://youngpride.wordpress.com

 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




youngblood wrote:
Orkeosaurus wrote:It's good that the courts upheld the ban.

I'm against it myself, but it needs to be a legislative issue.

Curious as to why you think its a legislative issue...


I don't know why youngblood thinks it is a legislative issue, but the reason it is a legislative issue, is that the US is a republic, which means the laws are supposed to come from the legislative branch, or in the case of prop 8, due to the California State constitution that allows amendments via state ballots, directly by the people. They are not supposed to be laws imposed by judicial fiat.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Exactly.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






Chicago

I think if California stopped worrying about stupid crap like this, maybe their budget wouldn't be the mess it is.


   
Made in us
Phanobi





Paso Robles, CA, USA

I don't really see equality as "stupid crap" but ok...

Yay for Tyranny of the Majority!!

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings.
Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.

Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.

This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.

A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

translation: hurray for democratically elected representational government and the rule of law!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






Chicago

But they're not arguing about equality, they're arguing about semantics. California has civil unions that grant all the rights that marriage does within the state. What they're arguing about is whether those unions can be called Marriage or not.

What a waste of time, and money.



   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Remember kids, if the courts strike down a law that you liked, it's judicial fiat; but if they strike down a law that you hated, it's a vindication of personal freedoms.

I'm not an expert on California law, but the California Supreme Court is, and if they had found that the right to marry either sex was a constitutional right, that is their job. I didn't hear a lot of talk about Judical Activism when SCOTUS struck down the handgun ban in DC.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Actually I could have cared less if referendum was the opposite. I Just prefer it when courts don't meddle and these social issues get resolved as they should.

And remember boys and girls the California appellate circuit is the most overturned circuit in these United States. I'm sure they'll eventually stick their nose in and muck things up again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/26 19:53:57


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Redbeard: But they're not arguing about equality, they're arguing about semantics. California has civil unions that grant all the rights that marriage does within the state. What they're arguing about is whether those unions can be called Marriage or not.
The marriage label has more to do with softer rules, like those imposed by a job or a university.
Also there is a maintenance of an attitude of "Oh, you one of those." that can be more easily accepted if you limit peoples cultural crossovers.
Redbeard: What a waste of time, and money.
Agreed, they should just wasting resources on trying to inflict religious law on a minority population.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Well, I agree, unless those social issues involve constitutuional (either federal or state) rights. It's really hard to tell sometimes. Libretarians loved Heller but hated Kelo. Was the court right to overturn leglisation in the former? To allow it to stand in the latter? Both of those decisions turned on the slightest of semantics: "regulated militia" and "public use."

The courts are charged with defending individual rights, and sometimes to define them.

Let's not forget that state judges are elected, not appointed, so it's harder to pin them as being a fiat.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Polonius wrote:Remember kids, if the courts strike down a law that you liked, it's judicial fiat; but if they strike down a law that you hated, it's a vindication of personal freedoms.

I'm not an expert on California law, but the California Supreme Court is, and if they had found that the right to marry either sex was a constitutional right, that is their job. I didn't hear a lot of talk about Judical Activism when SCOTUS struck down the handgun ban in DC.


One slight difference, the DC gun ban was a law enacted by the city, which falls under federal jurisdiction, and since it is not a state, does not have a state consitution. Therefore when the ban was found to be unconsitutional, it was found to be in violation of the US consitution.

What prompted prop 8 was the court overturning an earlier law prohibiting gay marriage, again a mere law, which does fall under the purview of judicial review, upon a lawsuit. However prop 8 was an ammendment to the state consitution. By definition, once an amendment is part of the constitution, it is fully part of that consitution. Therfore, it is automatically constitutional. The law suit was to determine if the amendment was an amendment or a revision, which under the california constitution, a revision has to have a two thirds majority by the legislature, rather than an amnedment, which requires a majority of a popular vote.

The california supreme court ruled that prop 8 was an amendment, rather than a revision.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Cool, I was wondering why the CA Court was involved in a constitutional issue, but the revision v. amendment thing makes sense.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

Yeah, that does make more sense.

Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
Made in us
Dogged Kum



Houston Texas

So... really.... what is to stop this from switching to being legal and not legal depending on which party has control of the state?

I play...  
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Like every other law/amendment. You have to pass it.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

If it were any more difficult to prevent partisan majorities from passing laws in the US, it'd be almost impossible to get anything done. Compared to a parliamentary system, American Democracy has a profound system of checks and balances.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




The wisdom of our founding fathers does shine through every once in a while. They knew that a government, while a necessary evil, is most often the supressor of freedom, rather than the protector. That is why they designed a system that lends itself to gridlock. If the government can't agree to do anything, it makes it hard for them to oppress you.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/26 23:40:22


 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant







Whoopie!!!!!

-to many points to bother to count.
mattyrm wrote:i like the idea of a woman with a lobster claw for a hand touching my nuts. :-)
 
   
Made in us
Dogged Kum



Houston Texas

So... what exactly happened to the post(s) in this thread by Shuma?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/27 03:35:42


I play...  
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






garret wrote:Whoopie!!!!!


I don't know if i should call you a bigot or if you're joking

H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

youbedead wrote:I don't know if i should call you a bigot or if you're joking
Over reacting much?

Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant







why would be a bigot?
because i dont agree with you views?
is everyone who disagree with you an idiot?

-to many points to bother to count.
mattyrm wrote:i like the idea of a woman with a lobster claw for a hand touching my nuts. :-)
 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





Sad but true, I always fear something really bad will get passed one day. As long as they arn't having tangible rights trampled tall they can do is wait and try again. I still feel bad. we'd let Lebians into our marriage, but not thier own.

And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.

Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Mango wrote:
Polonius wrote:Remember kids, if the courts strike down a law that you liked, it's judicial fiat; but if they strike down a law that you hated, it's a vindication of personal freedoms.

I'm not an expert on California law, but the California Supreme Court is, and if they had found that the right to marry either sex was a constitutional right, that is their job. I didn't hear a lot of talk about Judical Activism when SCOTUS struck down the handgun ban in DC.


One slight difference, the DC gun ban was a law enacted by the city, which falls under federal jurisdiction, and since it is not a state, does not have a state consitution. Therefore when the ban was found to be unconsitutional, it was found to be in violation of the US consitution.

What prompted prop 8 was the court overturning an earlier law prohibiting gay marriage, again a mere law, which does fall under the purview of judicial review, upon a lawsuit. However prop 8 was an ammendment to the state consitution. By definition, once an amendment is part of the constitution, it is fully part of that consitution. Therfore, it is automatically constitutional. The law suit was to determine if the amendment was an amendment or a revision, which under the california constitution, a revision has to have a two thirds majority by the legislature, rather than an amnedment, which requires a majority of a popular vote.

The california supreme court ruled that prop 8 was an amendment, rather than a revision.


So does that mean that a propisition attempted at the next election that said 'gay marriage is marriage' would be revision, and need the two thirds majority?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Polonius wrote:If it were any more difficult to prevent partisan majorities from passing laws in the US, it'd be almost impossible to get anything done. Compared to a parliamentary system, American Democracy has a profound system of checks and balances.


Both systems have a wide range of controls, and many of the biggest controls are informal. And often it isn't a case of having a control or not, but having control over different things. For instance, in the US reps are free to cross the aisles, whereas under Westminster there are tight party controls over crossing the floor. The result is that in the US individuals have greater control over bills and can stop something passing, whereas in the Westminster system there is far greater control over the specifics of a bill (no need to secure votes by adding riders or compromising the bill).

It's all a little too complex to say 'this system has more controls than that system'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/27 05:10:35


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





garret wrote:why would be a bigot?
because i dont agree with you views?
is everyone who disagree with you an idiot?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigot

So you know that hes not calling you an idiot.
   
 
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