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The question's in the title.

A normal captian with Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon and Artificer Armour costs 145 pts.

Sicarius gets this plus Feel no Pain, Tempest Blade (option to swap normal power weapon attacks for a single S6 attack causing instant death), Rites of Battle (everyone gets to test on his Ld of 10), Battle-forged heroes (one tac squad gets your choice of special ability from counter-attack, infiltrate, scout or tank hunter) and Surprise Attack! (re-roll sieze the initiative) for 200pts.

On the plus side he's very hard to kill (2+/4+ FNP) and is decent in CC against most opponents (he can theoretically take down AV12 or T9 enemies although is at his best against MEQs).

His abilities are very generic and can mesh well with any marine build (unlike, say Kantor where you have to take Sternguard to get the most out of him, or Khan who needs a bike command squad)

On the downside, he is expensive and effective marine builds can be produced with cheaper HQ's. Also, his abilities have a less direct effect on the battle than other marine SC's, making it harder to judge their effectiveness (it's very easy to Mathhammer Vulkan's effect on a battle, less so with Sicarius).


So what do you think?
Have you had success/failure with him?
Or is he to be ignored as an overcosted abberration in the list?

He's expensive for sure but I like him. I like the flexibility that BFH gives. Rerolling the steal the initiative roll is nice but not always that handy. I've done well with him but I've seen other players fall flat with him. He is still at heart a marine captain and needs to be treated as such.

The other reason I like him is he gives good bonuses to the army but does not lose the fallback rule. Pedro and Vulcan both limit your tactical options by being there.

Generalretreat seems to have had good results with him.

For 55 points more than a captain equipped the same way you get
- a veteran skill on one of your Tac squads
- Ld 10 for everything which includes your Sergeant-less combat squads
- 2 chances to steal the initiative
- the ability to forgo normal attacks for a single S6 attack that causes ID
- FNP for extra durability

He gives flexibility, makes your basic troops better and while he doesn't have the shock and awe army makeover of Vulkan, Kantor or Shrike he can hold his own and you get to keep Chapter Tactics which is great.

Also the veteran skill application has tons of possibilities as there are 4 skills and many different squad configurations. Infiltrating heavy weapons forward into cover, outflanking razorbacks/rhinos, countercharge to hold the line, tank hunters with LC/Melta/combi-melta/Powerfist. Probably other applications as well.

Sicarus is definitely worth it! I was playing some friends and really regretted not having him, as he would have made my army much better. Also, as he's a captain, you can still include a CM if you want to! However, it still is your decision lol

MC

MC how would he have made your army better? Also a CM is not really that effective in comparison to a captain.

I like the model. And the rules are effective in a well built list. Just dont expect him to do amazing things and you're set to go

More importantly you can take him with a chaplain if you really wanted, then again that would be 300+ points of HQ...

On the Sicarus model, does it come with Ultramarines iconography on it, or is that put on, as I saw a model which was for Salamanders, and was the Sicarus model.

MC

Sicarius' model is full of Ultramarines iconography - on the hilt of his sword, his belt, his helmet, and backpack, to name but a few.

It's not very hard to shave them off, though, so it's still a fine model for other Chapters.

I run Sicarius and feel that he adds a lot to my force. I like that he lets me keep Combat Tactics and gives LD10 to all my units (combat squads), but to really take advantage of him you need a good number of tactical squads imo. I usually run 3 tactical squads in rhinos, and being able to outflank a rhino or give a unit tank hunter is great.

Basically, I see Sicarius as the special character for SM players who don't want a big change in how their army works. Unlike other SC who replace Combat Tactics and force you to really play a certain way, Sicarius lets you adapt to your opponent.

He's not for everyone, but is a solid choice imo.

He's the most generic special character in the game. He does what, IMO, every space marine captains should do: be decent in HtH, relatively durable, makes your tactical squads better, allows more chances to determine the flow of the game, and holds the army together with LD10.

He really only competes with vulkan (if you're melta heavy) or a basic captain. In a mechanized marine force, I've used nothing but Sicarious and done reasonably well. Just be wary of S8...

Thanks for all the help, guys - I think the positive feedback has secured his place in my list!

(I'm actually going to build a model using the SM captain and some pieces from my bits box to have as Justinian, captain of the Mortifactors 3rd company - P&M blog coming in a few weeks after I finally clear the Tau off my painting table!!)

The 3rd edition metal captain, the one that came with storm bolter or bolter/bolt pistol, a cape, and a power weapon is what I'm using as my sicarious. I just cut off the bolter and glued on a plasma pistol.

Amazingly, if you have an original SM captain from way back in the day, it's armed with PW and PP...

Sicarius is very solid, but a bit overpriced (probably by about 25-30 points) and rather bland compared to some of the other SC choices. But there is nothing wrong with him per se and his model is great. He is is alot like the tactical squad- solid and reliable, but not hugely impressive and a bit pricey in points.

I think he's good enough that I've considered starting a Ultramarine army (or maybe just a second founding with a 'count as' sicarius).

With regards to the Sicarus model itself, does he have lots of Ultramarines iconography on him, as I thought about adding him to my Iron Lords army. Any ideas?

MC

He's excellent over all as he also allows the taking of a command squad. Rerolling seize initiative is nice but not a game winning ability.

If you look at it though he really shines in that he allows you to have LD 10 on all units and have combat tactics allowing you to fail tests when you would like ; with LD 10 when you do want to make those tests then he helps you take it.

He's also tough as hell with FNP, 4+ , 2+ invulnerable. Seriously that is awesome.

jmurph wrote:Sicarius is very solid, but a bit overpriced (probably by about 25-30 points) and rather bland compared to some of the other SC choices. But there is nothing wrong with him per se and his model is great. He is is alot like the tactical squad- solid and reliable, but not hugely impressive and a bit pricey in points.

A SM Captain w/ a Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol and Art. Armor would be 145 points. If Sicarius was 175pts, then that means for 30 points you would get: FNP, an Instant Death attack, LD10 on your whole army, reroll Seize the Initiative, a veteran ability on a tactical squad, and (the biggest one for me) you get to keep Combat Tactics. That would be a LOT of stuff for 30 points...

Yes, he is not cheap, but I actually think he is priced fairly.

I like Cato...I like that he is fluffy for my army ( I am lazy and didn't want to deal with making my own fluff), he makes my 3 tac squads just a little bit better/stronger, and he is jsut an awesome freaking model. Also if he is with an assult type unit he has a chance (small) to pop light transports with his plasma pistol so they can get to the juicy center :drool:

He lacks the pure power of Vul'kan or Pedro so he isn't the best choice for a tourny(unless you are making a fluffy army), being a capt its hard to find a unit to put him in (unless you spend the points on a command squad) where he can be effective.


All in all I have enjoyed using him (esp now that I have him painted all purrty) in my army, even if there are options that are considerd better.

There are times when I wonder if I should drop him from my list, but then I remember when he one shotted a Talos and I smile

Over-priced and underwhelming.

Vulkan is the only special that looks promising.

Sicarius is amazing. Get him into CC and he will mulch pretty much everything he touches. That one hit kill is one of the best CC attacks in the game, and it will kill everything.

MC

Hes an odd character that works more as a force enabler than a straight up brawler. (although he is still pretty effective at that)
There are better choices IMO and he just seems almost too generic

Yani, Sicarius is amazing, the only reason you don't like him Yani is because he's killed a Talos before lol

MC

MC I have never fought against him in my life. I have also never run Taloi (plural of Talos). I am offering my opinion based on his stats and special rules rather than SPASE MARIENS HURRRR.
He is situationaly usefull but offers more to the army as a whole than as a straight up fighter

Admittedly true, but if you take him with a CS, then he'll be much better. Admittedly he would be more expensive then, but his power would be significantly improved.

MC

He's certainly useful, but not overwhelmingly powerful. Coup de Grace is 30% great and 70% utterly useless, given how many multiwound models have immunity to instant death. He doesn't really have the number of attacks to dent big units, so like most every other expensive hand to hand model, for him to make his points back through combat you have to be very picky about who he engages. Don't expect him to take down Monstrous creatures; I can't think of any that aren't immune to instant death some way or another besides the Talos.

Railguns wrote:He's certainly useful, but not overwhelmingly powerful. Coup de Grace is 30% great and 70% utterly useless, given how many multiwound models have immunity to instant death. He doesn't really have the number of attacks to dent big units, so like most every other expensive hand to hand model, for him to make his points back through combat you have to be very picky about who he engages. Don't expect him to take down Monstrous creatures; I can't think of any that aren't immune to instant death some way or another besides the Talos.

While it is true that many MC have a way to become Immune to ID, CdG is also good at sniping IC/SC (most of which, although not all, do not have Eternal Warrior).

Regardless, he is not a "CC Monster" by any means. His CC ability is just an aspect of his utility.

Thanks for that boxANT, I was thinking about putting him in my Iron Lords army (under a different name of course). How much Ultramarines iconography is there on him though?

MC

I would say no because he has no inv, i mean if a vanguard squad charges him and at least two or so get thare attacks he is as good as dead ( taking into accout they have pws ). so if he had an iron halo like a genaric captain he would be worth it. Which by the way fluff wise makes no sense i mean he is the best fighter in his chapter (second to calgar of course) and he does not get one of the highest honours in the chapter that the rest of the captains have makes no sense.

I would say no because he has no inv, i mean if a vanguard squad charges him and at least two or so get thare attacks he is as good as dead ( taking into accout they have pws ).

Check his entry near the back of the book, he has an iron halo giving him a 4++. It just isn't listed with the fluff entry in the front of the codex.