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Which is one of the reasons that I hate the current codex format.

His support abilities are nice, if a bit one-offish. But if you want to leverage his melee abilties to get the most out of him you have to realize that he isn't any kind of Kharn or Abbadoobadilly, he is a combat sniper or a few extra power weapons attacks in the mess.

If you put him with a CS, and kit them out to be CC-based, he becomes a lot better, as he can't suffer from ID, due to the Apothecary. This is insanely useful against MCs, as I saw at my FLGS.

MC

extermikator wrote:If you put him with a CS, and kit them out to be CC-based, he becomes a lot better, as he can't suffer from ID, due to the Apothecary. This is insanely useful against MCs, as I saw at my FLGS.

MC

When in the hell did an apoc start preventing ID? Please show me the rule that says that...Cause the way I read it is he gives FNP to the squad and no more. Seeing a most things that cause ID are also AP 1 or AP 2, you dont get the FNP roll anyway.

As far as I know, Monstrous creatures ignore armor saves and thus FnP doesn't stop them. Or something to that effect.

The apoth does not give immunity to instant death, don't know where that came from...

I wouldn't put Sicarius in a command squad, however. It would be too much of a points sink and is easily munched by elite enemy CC units or pie. If you're desperate to get him into combat put him with some CC termis in a Crusader/Redeemer.

Its a standard tactic anyway and if you're taking him for the Ld boost, vet skills and re-roll then you're not losing anything by adding him to the squad.

Personally, though, I'd leave him in the backfield (maybe with cheap ablative armour like CC scouts or a small tac squad) to act as a counter-charge unit or stick him in a front-line tac squad that he can charge out of independently.

He is not a CC monster like Abbadon but can easily make his points back if you engage the right target.

Sicarus is well worth taking, he gives your entire army a ld 10, and that makes him worth his wieght in gold. He also has pretty good weapons, and his armour save of 2+ is very good.

MC

But for less points i give my guys padro cantor who gives them stuborn and adds to the attacks.

Does Kantor give Stubborn to all the units in the Sm army, or just that he joins, as Sicarius gives ld 10 to every unit in the army!

MC

extermikator wrote:Does Kantor give Stubborn to all the units in the Sm army, or just that he joins, as Sicarius gives ld 10 to every unit in the army!

MC

Kantor gives Stubborn to every single model in the army, as long as you don't choose another character's Chapter Tactics over his.

Also, yeah, Ld 8/9 Stubborn is often superior to Ld 10 non-Stubborn, especially combined with ATSKNF.

MinMax wrote:

extermikator wrote:Does Kantor give Stubborn to all the units in the Sm army, or just that he joins, as Sicarius gives ld 10 to every unit in the army!

MC

Kantor gives Stubborn to every single model in the army, as long as you don't choose another character's Chapter Tactics over his.

Also, yeah, Ld 8/9 Stubborn is often superior to Ld 10 non-Stubborn, especially combined with ATSKNF.

It depends on the situation, personally I prefer Combat Tactics to Stubborn (unless I am up against PBS crazy guard).

BoxANT wrote:Kantor gives Stubborn to every single model in the army, as long as you don't choose another character's Chapter Tactics over his.

Also, yeah, Ld 8/9 Stubborn is often superior to Ld 10 non-Stubborn, especially combined with ATSKNF.

It depends on the situation, personally I prefer Combat Tactics to Stubborn (unless I am up against PBS crazy guard).

Sicarius is still good. How many points more is Kantor than Sicarius, I haven't got my Sm codex with me.

MC

extermikator wrote:Sicarius is still good. How many points more is Kantor than Sicarius, I haven't got my Sm codex with me.

MC

Pedro is 25points *less* than Cato.

I still prefer Cato though I don't like to use Sternguards

BoxANT wrote:
Yes, he is not cheap, but I actually think he is priced fairly.

That's the problem. The other SCs seem to get some almost freebies. Compare Vulkan to a master w/Artificier, Relic Blade, Digital weapons and storm shield. The CM is +5 pts and doesn't have heavy flamer or MC on the blade. The twin linking is easily worth trading CT and the Orbital for. That was my point about his desirability compared to the other SCs.

Yeah and S8 stuff doesn't give a rip about FNP. Two PFist hits should pulp him.

I ran siccy a couple of days ago against the green tide, he aint the end all of all commanders, no lysander or calgar to say the least.
But in true AOBR style, hit the Coup de Grace on the war bosses charge, and survived a mauling from the 10 nobz on the bosses heels with just one wound lost.
i was playing a fluffy ultra army that day and the lions soon mopped up the nobz with minimal casutalies.
however sometime he falls flat on his face, but i just love the buff that he gives to an army.

also it fun to think that cato can ID avatars, wraithlords, tombspiders, ctan gods and fex's (outside synapse). 4/4 for an avatar aint too bad, just have to surive the inittall pummeling, and be bless by the dice gods.

jonjacob wrote:I ran siccy a couple of days ago against the green tide, he aint the end all of all commanders, no lysander or calgar to say the least.
But in true AOBR style, hit the Coup de Grace on the war bosses charge, and survived a mauling from the 10 nobz on the bosses heels with just one wound lost.
i was playing a fluffy ultra army that day and the lions soon mopped up the nobz with minimal casutalies.
however sometime he falls flat on his face, but i just love the buff that he gives to an army.

also it fun to think that cato can ID avatars, wraithlords, tombspiders, ctan gods and fex's (outside synapse). 4/4 for an avatar aint too bad, just have to surive the inittall pummeling, and be bless by the dice gods.

I am pretty sure you can not IS a C'tan or and avatar... that EW rule is kind of a bitch. I have said it before and I shall say it again, Cato is a jack-of-all-trades commander for people who like to keep combat tactics. If you are looking for more power/oomph out of your list stay the F*** away from Cato, Vul'kan or Pedro will be much,much,much better.

A fun thing I have found is pay 10 points more then a command squad and put Cato w/ a squad of 5 sternguad. The sternguad are WAAAAAY more killy the a command squad (losing FNP kinda sucks but sacrifices must be made). If you have the points, 9 sternguard + upgrades in a rhino + Cato is a nasty little ball of death. You can use them as a stupid powerful shooty squad to make thos daemons that just DS'ed in die OR you can use them as a nice counter charge unit to keep a tac squad alive.

funny cuz i can't find where is states avatar or nightbringer are EW or immue to ID, but i guess with codex revisions GW will probably plug that hole.