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I've had mixed results with metal models...

I bought a Zagstruk model and had to file down a leg to get it to fit into the joint. Snikrot needed significant retooling to get him to fit together. My Ghazghkull Thraka model still doesn't fit together right; the torso doesn't attach to the legs, there's a square protrusion on the top that's supposed to fit into a square hole on the legs, but it doesn't...but after my wife spent days painting him, I'm not about to try getting it replace...


Now, I've just put in an order for six killa-kans. They're metal, and I've got a poor track record with metal models. If they show up and are as deformed as some of the stuff I've gotten, then what? Is this typical? Do I call GW and ask them to find me a model that actually fits together without requiring L75 metalworking?

were do you buy your models from?


do you actually buy them from the gw site and get them shipped to you?


I personally dislike metal models over plastic ones aswell, you have to clip of all the little metal dags, and there harder for conversions

I love metal models. Their detail is amazing, plus, they weigh more.

Though, that's awful about Zag, Ghaz and Snik. I hope my models don't come like that.

I'll be happy to complain to GW about my models as soon as they start making more Necrons. Until then I'll just complain about not having any.

Most of my metal models that have come from GW or from my local hobby store come deformed in some way.

All sorts of stuff from swords being bent, peices being broken completely off, or break off when touched lightly due to being cast out of a bad mold, to having models that the two sides came out of the mold a few cm off on each side to where one side of my guy's body was higher than the other. I've also had experiences where peices wouldn't fit together until I've taken a lot of work to it.

Overall I'm not impressed at all with the quality of the metal models that GW ships out, most of the ones I've gotten have needed signifigant filing and fixing before they look like they should.

I've never complained, but I'm the type of person that if I get my cheeseburger out of the drive though made wrong, that I just drive off anyway and deal with it.

I'm guessing that's the way most of the buyers of GW's metal models feel.

I wouldn't expect those killer kans to come ready to put together.

GW is actually really good in their customer support. If you are buying direct from GW even more so. the 5 or 6 times I have done so the guy on the phone didnt sound like he really cared what I said and just told me he would ship a replacement out to me that day. It is totally worth it, you spend enough money on little metal guys that you deserve to have them go together directly.

Hrm....I'm the kind of guy who orders a cheeseburger, and if I get home and find out that I have a chicken sandwich, I call and make a note so that the next time I go, I get a free cheeseburger.

If I spend $25 to buy a box of stormboyz, or Lootas, or anything else....I get 5 little plastic models. I get 5 little plastic models that I have to assemble and paint myself. That's $5 per model. There's no question that this is ludicrously overpriced. And yet, between my Ork and Tau armies, I probably have 15,000 points worth of little plastic models.

I don't think its unreasonable to expect that if I shell out $25 for a little metal can, it will assemble as the picture instructs. I don't think it is reasonable to charge $25-70 for a single model, then ship out something that is less than usable. I mean, it costs $100 to gather a single elite choice for Orks.

And I don't buy my models from GW directly, I buy them from my FLGS. So two days ago, I put in an order for killa-kans; they'll show up in the next week or two, depending on when he gets the order in. If you go to the store and buy a desk, get it home and can't assemble it because the frame wasn't drilled, and the legs are warped do you file, tinker and work on it or take it back to the store and get it replaced because you shelled out a bunch of cash for a reason?

I suppose that's my question - is it wrong to think of GW like a store? I give you money, I expect to receive advertised product? At what point should I feel justified stopping trying to file and clip and force something to fit together and call GW instead and ask for a new one?

80% of my banshee swords are broken
either at the blade or the hilt .....

some day im going to have to ask GW to do something about it.

Oh wait , that was 1 edition ago now what -_-

Seriously, if it is wrong call GW and tell them. Even if it is from a FLGS they will replace it. We give all this money to a company we all complain about and then when they get something wrong that they can actually fix, we just let it go. They will never fix the rules to where we all want them, but I think they are obligated to give us non broken models.

I had the plastic top cover for my Chimea warp...
seriously, im paying what amounts to 5 hours of my own wage to buy a little model.

Damn hell i took it back and got a replacement peice, the store rep told me "to glue it and use elastic bands to make it fit"
I told him if his company is going to charge that much for a little model peice of plastic, it can at least be moulded right, and that he's sold me a faulty product, and i want the faulty peice replaced.

I had the plastic top cover for my Chimea warp...
seriously, im paying what amounts to 5 hours of my own wage to buy a little model.

Damn hell i took it back and got a replacement peice, the store rep told me "to glue it and use elastic bands to make it fit"
I told him if his company is going to charge that much for a little model peice of plastic, it can at least be moulded right, and that he's sold me a faulty product, and i want the faulty peice replaced.

as for as gw goes, i prefer plastic.
while my weirdboy went together fine, the kans were hell

i think i spent a good half hour to an hour filing on the body to get the two halfs to be able to fit together, on each one i built

Grey Knight Luke wrote:Seriously, if it is wrong call GW and tell them. Even if it is from a FLGS they will replace it. We give all this money to a company we all complain about and then when they get something wrong that they can actually fix, we just let it go. They will never fix the rules to where we all want them, but I think they are obligated to give us non broken models.

I even went as far as bringing the broken models to the GW shop . I told them they can keep the broken ones and give me replacements.

Their response was " you can easily pin them back "

Remoah wrote:I had the plastic top cover for my Chimea warp...
seriously, im paying what amounts to 5 hours of my own wage to buy a little model.

Damn hell i took it back and got a replacement peice, the store rep told me "to glue it and use elastic bands to make it fit"
I told him if his company is going to charge that much for a little model peice of plastic, it can at least be moulded right, and that he's sold me a faulty product, and i want the faulty peice replaced.

Er.
Was it ACTUAL like, completely 100% not fitting together period warp?
Or like the every so often, warped piece that is easily made to fit by running it under hot water for a bit and then put into place?

I once bought a box of Ratskins which had the two halves of the metal model misaligned by about 1mm. No way to fix that, had them replaced. (that was probably 10 years ago since necro was on the shelves!)

And I once had a shadow weaver for Epic that was missing a part. Hmm, that would be even longer ago..

I haven't had a problem in a long time, I've had a good run!


I think you shouldn't expect such great things about metal models fitting together. It's just the reality of the casting process, metal warps when it cools. You're sort of asking the impossible. I haven't had multipart metals form any company that fit together particualrly well (although Privateer Press wins the "most awful multipart metals" award, with the Nyss Hunters narrowly edging out GW's Lord of Change)

i got a land raider and the kit had 2 left track sprues, no right.

i rang up,
they sent me a whole new land raider, which im sure is still sitting in a box-anyone got a RH track sprue??!

it mght be left, i cant remember

I've had to call GW twice. First time I got one of the Enemies of the Imperium box that was missing Kharn (the only one that I really wanted to begin with). Had a new Kharn in a week.

Second time I had an Orc Bully with a deformed peg leg. I called just asking if what I was seeing was normal and the guy insisted on sending me a new Bully, even though I said I could work around it.

Because molten metal shrinks as it cools and solidifies, usually the parts of the kit warp and distort - so there can be difficulties in fitting together multi-part metal models, particularly larger ones - as the larger the model the larger the shrinkage, obviously.

GW do not pretend otherwise. It's why they sell greenstuff, primarily. Some filling and drilling is NORMALLY required, and should be accepted as part of the deal, as nothing can be done about it.

Also, metal is bendy. So small/thin metal bits can get bent in transit. Swords and spear shafts are USUALLY bent in the blister. They should be simple enough to straighten up with your fingers or a small pair of pliers. Again this is normal, and all part of learning to model in the hobby of metal models. Nothing to write home about.

Some flash and small mould lines are also inevitable. Most quality manufacturers minimise this and so metal models should only have a minimal amount of flash and mould lines which should be able to be filed off easily. Again, this is par for the course. Some manufacturers like Hasslefree have managed to virtually eliminate flash from their process, but not totally. GW is still a bit behind the curve on this one, but it shouldn't take more than a few minutes work per model.

That said, sometimes GW does send out models that are warped/damaged beyond acceptable tolerances.

1. Anything broken (rather than just bent) in transit is not acceptable. Anything bent beyond the ability to be straightened back without breakage is not acceptable.

2. GW's styrene is not prone to much shrinkage at all in comparison to metal. So there is zero excuse for misaligned plastic parts. Plastic kits that do not match up properly are a result of bad design or poor production and are not acceptable and should be returned as not fit for purpose.

3. EXTREME warpage, beyond the ability to simply fill with a small amount of greenstuff is not acceptable and should be returned. Obviously this is a grey area, and may require some negotiation on your part.

Please note that modelling with metal models is a different thing altogether to sticking together plastic mass produced Airfix kits. It can be a little trickier and can require a little more patience. This can be a surprise to people who grew up sticking together Airfix and Tamiya kits. This is one of the reasons GW are switching, gradually,towards a fully plastic model range.

Don't get your hopes up for the Killa Kan, they are a pain to assemble.

GW's plastic model kits actually fit surprisingly well, in my personal experience. A lot better than the average kit from the likes of Revell or Airfix, to name but two.

Metal Cadian pattern extra armour for Sentinels, those were great fits..

I dont understand why this is such a problem for most people. If the minis dont fit,work, are broken, deformed, half eaten! Just CALL the GW number(not the stores those guys are idiots) They practically dont care what you say is wrong, they ask for your house number and general info, and in a few days you get said product in the mail. Im sure if you do this alot they will eventually tell you to piss off, but thats why you stay decent and not cheat them. Ive had to do this with a box of boyz, and now my wives guants box. Im sure if there isa problem with the metal cans, just call them, tell them this thing is really F'ed up and they will probably send you a new one. That way you can complain about having to drill/grind/saw BOTH to get them to work, but at least you got one for free

If I buy something at my local GW or off the Net and I get a metal model that's missing something or screwed up beyond my abilities to repair it I will generally just go talk to one of the Redshirts about it and they will replace it for me, and let me keep the old model for bit/conversion work like what happened when I got the Chaos Warriors Spearhead and Prince Sigvald was missing his sword arm, I just mentioned that when I got home the arm wasn't there, they had me bring the model back, they gave me a new one and told me to keep the old one.

Dashofpepper wrote:
I don't think its unreasonable to expect that if I shell out $25 for a little metal can, it will assemble as the picture instructs. I don't think it is reasonable to charge $25-70 for a single model, then ship out something that is less than usable. I mean, it costs $100 to gather a single elite choice for Orks.

It costs considerably more than that to put together a unit of bloodcrushers, but that's not really the issue here. The issue is that your expectations are unrealistic.

If you go to the store and buy a desk, get it home and can't assemble it because the frame wasn't drilled, and the legs are warped do you file, tinker and work on it or take it back to the store and get it replaced because you shelled out a bunch of cash for a reason?

This is not really a comparable experience. Read the fine-print on the models you're buying. You're expected to do some work to get them to fit together, and, like Osbad stated, you're expected to use some greenstuff to fill in the gaps, that are expected to be there. You're expected to file off mold lines, and GW has never made a claim otherwise.

I suppose that's my question - is it wrong to think of GW like a store? I give you money, I expect to receive advertised product? At what point should I feel justified stopping trying to file and clip and force something to fit together and call GW instead and ask for a new one?

The point where you should feel justified in calling and asking for a replacement is the point at which you do not receive the advertised product. Nothing you've mentioned meets that criteria. the products are advertised as requiring modelling experience on the part of the buyer, and they're sold with the expectation that you'll do that. That's what is advertised. And, when you don't get what they advertised, they're incredibly good at making right the situation. If a piece is truely deformed or miscast, they replace it, no questions asked. If a piece is missing, they replace it, no questions asked. If a piece has a mold line, and you whine about it, you get called a whiny git.

Remoah wrote:
I had the plastic top cover for my Chimea warp...
seriously, im paying what amounts to 5 hours of my own wage to buy a little model.

Damn hell i took it back and got a replacement peice, the store rep told me "to glue it and use elastic bands to make it fit"
I told him if his company is going to charge that much for a little model peice of plastic, it can at least be moulded right, and that he's sold me a faulty product, and i want the faulty peice replaced.

Again, your expectations are what are wrong, and his response was correct. Some of the guard tank molds are over ten - maybe even 15 - years old. And, plastic can warp a bit. But, it also bends right back into place, and using a few modelling clamps, or rubber-bands solves the problem. I know exactly what you're talking about with the Chimera top, because it happens with most of them. It's not faulty, you're getting exactly what was advertised, a plastic kit that can assemble a chimera with a bit of modelling. The fact that you're unwilling to use the mot simple of modelling tools doesn't mean they didn't meet their commitment to you, it means you need to learn to model.

I'm not suggesting that no molding or work is required.

Like I said earlier, it took a good bit of work, drilling, and extra superglue to get my Zagstruk to assemble together, and I have a Ghazghkull Thraka that breaks in the middle if he falls over on the table simply because no matter how much work I put into him, the two halves of his main model won't fit together.

Between two Deff Dreads, I've run into problems getting the middles to fit together, and one of them has a rather awkward assembly.

Now - 'Ard Boyz is coming up, and I want to take killa kans in my list, so I just ordered 6 of them. I have a *LOT* of stuff to paint. I don't mind doing some work fitting and filing, but I'm not an expert modeler...I don't have any green stuff, and I don't have machinery except for an exacto knife, a file, and a little packet of sandpaper I bought at Hobby Lobby. If those can't get it...well, I feel like I bought something that deserves replacement.

I'm not suggesting that you pull models out and fit them together without cleaning them up first, but that wasn't my question - I'm wondering if my expectations are in line or unreasonable? My Ghazghkull for instance. In hindsight, I wish I would have asked for a replacement, because my Ghazghkull has broken twice now in the middle from simply falling over on the table; there's not enough connectivity in the middle between the joint parts to let glue get a really good hold. However, my wife spent a good couple of days painting him, and I'm not trying to go through that again.

Beyond my little file, sandpaper, and exacto knife....then what? Like I said; if I'm shelling out $50 for a little metal dude, or $150 to make two heavy support choices...I expect standards attached to my purchase, something that I can make into the end product. I don't know what production cost is for the box I get, but I'm pretty sure its a lot less than what I paid for it...am I really that unreasonable?

The killa kans can be a right b**ch to assemble. I bought three of them, and ended up having to hack bits off just to make the things fit together.

And Redbeard,whilst it's true that you are expected to do some work to put your models together,when a model kit requires an inordinate amount of effort, and materials just to make it fit together in the most basic of ways, I consider the product 'not as advertised', and demand a replacement.

I didn't feel it was quite justified with the killa kans, as whilst they were a pain and a half, they still only took me an day and a half to assemble. Had they been any more warped though, I would have rung and complained.

Why? Because you are expected to be able to assemble the product shown on the cover. With effort, it's true, but if you are unable to create the product shown on the cover, you are not receiving the product for which you paid. In that case, as a consumer, I am fully entitled to return my goods to the manufacturer and expect a refund , or replacement.

I'm not too sure if it's the same in America, but here, we have a big thing about consumer protection, and as such, Games Workshop HAS to replace defective products, lest they get their asses sued.

The Anima Tactics figures are all metal and, in many cases, super tiny. Some models will never fit together right (though when you get them together they look awesome). And Redbeard, where do you get your daemon modeling tools? If you roll a 1 do you automatically screw up whatever you're working on?

Dashofpepper wrote:
Like I said earlier, it took a good bit of work, drilling, and extra superglue to get my Zagstruk to assemble together,

I pin every single metal-to-metal and metal-to-plastic join on every model I do. If you're going to put any effort into painting a model, you want it to stay together, and no matter how perfect the mold, superglue will eventually weaken and break.

A lesson I learned, many many years ago in an electronics class, is that the first thing you need to do is make sure you have a solid mechanical join. Do not depend on the glue (or, in that case solder) to hold components together. Make it so they hold together mechanically, and then use the glue to strengthen and bond the join.

and I have a Ghazghkull Thraka that breaks in the middle if he falls over on the table simply because no matter how much work I put into him, the two halves of his
main model won't fit together.

I've put two gazghkull's together. And, I agree with you, the parts are not a perfect fit. But I've never had one break apart, because I preped the parts (filing the square tab, using a knife to improve the slot) and pinned them. Again, you cannot rely on glue to hold parts together. The top half of the ghaz. model is so heavy, and connected at an angle. Without a solid pin holding it in place, it's going to be a weak point on the model.

Between two Deff Dreads, I've run into problems getting the middles to fit together, and one of them has a rather awkward assembly.

Yup, kans and dreads are also old metal molds that have probably been refurbished a number of times. I haven't got one that doesn't have that issue. It takes a good bit of filing and a couple of pins to get them to go together right, but if you put the time in, it works just fine.

I guess you could return it if you really can't figure it out, but asking for a replacement is pointless - that's how that mold is now. (Metal molds don't last forever, and they have to re-tool them every so often)

Now - 'Ard Boyz is coming up, and I want to take killa kans in my list, so I just ordered 6 of them. I have a *LOT* of stuff to paint. I don't mind doing some work fitting and filing, but I'm not an expert modeler...I don't have any green stuff, and I don't have machinery except for an exacto knife, a file, and a little packet of sandpaper I bought at Hobby Lobby. If those can't get it...well, I feel like I bought something that deserves replacement.

Replaced with what? You'll just get identical replacements and have the same issues. I don't blame GW for not accepting a return on that basis. All you need is a good file and an exact knife and a pin vice. Sandpaper is largely superfluous with GW models.

In short, yes, you're being unreasonable. Your expectations are out of line with what they have the ability to deliver.

Ketara wrote:
I didn't feel it was quite justified with the killa kans, as whilst they were a pain and a half, they still only took me an day and a half to assemble. Had they been any more warped though, I would have rung and complained.

Why? Because you are expected to be able to assemble the product shown on the cover. With effort, it's true, but if you are unable to create the product shown on the cover, you are not receiving the product for which you paid. In that case, as a consumer, I am fully entitled to return my goods to the manufacturer and expect a refund , or replacement.

I'm not too sure if it's the same in America, but here, we have a big thing about consumer protection, and as such, Games Workshop HAS to replace defective products, lest they get their asses sued.

That is correct, and it's the same in the US. And they do replace truly defective models. But, as you said, killa kans, as much of a pain as they are, don't qualify. You might have to use some tools, but it is entirely possible to make the model shown on the box. Now, we get to the interesting part of consumer protection. It doesn't say that the average joe on the street has to be able to do it. You can't buy their best plastic model and give it to a four-year-old and complain when he cannot build it. These models aren't for novices. If you can't build the model on the box, but the redshirt at the store can, was it a defective product, or a defective user?

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
And Redbeard, where do you get your daemon modeling tools? If you roll a 1 do you automatically screw up whatever you're working on?

I get most of my stuff from Micro Mark which sells so many different specialty modelling tools that you can get overwhelmed. But, really, the important ones are file, knife, pin vice.

I only complain if pieces are missing.

I wouldn't buy a large model like a vehicle in metal, it's too much hassle to build and too heavy.

I was actually referring to your "mot" typo, but still good to know.

Every time i put together a GW multi piece metal kit , i feel like i accomplished something.

Is this funny, or others feel the same too ><?