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I've got a tournament coming up, and having seen lots of chat about the new Valkryie, but no consolidated notes on the problems arising from using them, I was wondering if someone could clue me in? I've read everything from "Stop buying valkryies" to threads about 5" being broken, but I'm not sure why....

Could someone tell me what's going on with them, and if I run into them in the tournament what I should be looking for / talking to my opponent about? Thanks!

There was a thread a couple of days ago that included pretty much all of the issues, but in a nutshell:

Because you ignore the flight base on skimmers for measurement purposes and instead measure range to and from the hull, the tall flight stem on the Valk means that it is impossible to embark or dismbark from it unless you're sitting beside a tall piece of terrain that troops can stand on, and the Valk will generally not be able to contest ground level objectives.


Various house rules have been suggested to cover this, including:
1 - Measure all distances horizontally, ignoring vertical displacement

2 - Measure to and from the base instead of the hull

3 - Count the Valkyrie as being at a set (lower) height more in line with the older style flight bases

4 - Assume that the Valkyrie can land for dis/embarking and/or taking objectives.

5 - Allow models to disembark, staying as close as possible to the base or the outline of the hull

6 - Allow models to dis/embark from the base, but don't allow it to contest ground level objectives

7 - Convert the Valkyrie so that it is on a shorter flight stem/is angled backwards so the rear hatch is closer to the ground/is sitting on the ground without a flight base/some other creative way of getting it closer to the ground.


I think that's covered them all. Anyone else should feel free to chime in with any that I missed.

You missed one:
0 - Play by the actual rules.

Gwar! wrote:You missed one:
0 - Play by the actual rules.

That's not a house rule...

insaniak wrote:

Gwar! wrote:You missed one:
0 - Play by the actual rules.

That's not a house rule...

According to some it is because page 2 means that the rulebook never applies.

But yeah, it's not a house rule, but ya should have listed it as, ya know, how you should play it

er... I listed the actual rules... and then I listed some house rules that have been suggested.

Sorry, didn't feel it was necessary to point out that people could just use the actual rules. Nor is it really necessary to carry on a five page discussion on whether or not I should have done so. Go have some more rum.

insaniak wrote:Go have some more rum.

I shall then! And Ginger Snaps. And Rice pudding.

But anyway, Just to make my feelings clear:
USE THE DAMN RULES.

I'll go away now.

Where using the rules does what? Doesn't let troops disembark?

My Tau drones have had their bases shaved down, because they break from time to time when they fall, and I have to re-drill the hole in the drone, then shave the base down to fit in the hole before regluing. As such, I have drones of different heights.

Cutting down the Valkryie base would fix all this I presume? Are there other contentions with it as a vehicle, or just its height?

Dashofpepper wrote:Where using the rules does what? Doesn't let troops disembark?

My Tau drones have had their bases shaved down, because they break from time to time when they fall, and I have to re-drill the hole in the drone, then shave the base down to fit in the hole before regluing. As such, I have drones of different heights.

Cutting down the Valkryie base would fix all this I presume? Are there other contentions with it as a vehicle, or just its height?

There's it's hight, do the wings count as hull, can it contest objectives (nevermind capture them) etc etc

Dashofpepper wrote:Where using the rules does what? Doesn't let troops disembark?

insaniak wrote:... it is impossible to embark or dismbark from it unless you're sitting beside a tall piece of terrain that troops can stand on, and the Valk will generally not be able to contest ground level objectives.

Cutting down the Valkryie base would fix all this I presume?

Assuming that your opponent has no objection to the Valk being on a base that is different to what it came with, sure.

insaniak wrote:Assuming that your opponent has no objection to the Valk being on a base that is different to what it came with, sure.

Rabble rabble THATS AGAINST THE RULES rabble rabble rabble....

Insaniak: SCREW THE RULES I HAVE MONEY!

OP, for your upcoming tournie your only option is to email the TO's ASAP and get a ruling from them.

Only TFG would not allow you to disembark passengers from it.

You know who you are.

I would also think that it's unlikey a TO won't offer some method of disembarking.

The more interesting question is objective holding/contesting.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Only TFG would not allow you to disembark passengers from it.

You know who you are.

Only TFG forces his opponents to play with made-up rules.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Only TFG would not allow you to disembark passengers from it.

The tournie is still going to need a ruling on just how the passengers disembark from it...

Cheese Elemental wrote:Only TFG would not allow you to disembark passengers from it.

You know who you are.

Cheese Elemental, meet Grav Chute Insertion.
Grav Chute Insertion, meet Cheese Elemental.

Dont bother asking us on a situation on this. rather consult the TO before hand on the tournies position on Valkaries. Ultimately this is a RaW forum, and as such not the best place to ask such a question as w'ell probably grudgingly come to the conclusion that the only way out of Valks is to grav shoot out.

It does matter AT ALL what anyone on here says to do in terms of how to play it if you're bringing them to a tournament. The word that matters is that of the TO and you need to ask him prior to the tournament how he intends to rule it. So save yourself the trouble of this thread, which is going to turn silly because the word Valkyrie was mentioned, and go ask your TO how he will rule the issues with the valkyrie. His interpritation and decision making regarding the Valkyrie will be the only thing that matters for the tournament so you should seek to prepare for the way he demands that they be played at his tournament.

To the OP, dont worry about it trust me they will allow you to treat the Valkyire as a normal transport for embarking and disembarking.

If they have an issue with it get a popsicle and a piece of tape. Right before the game use the small piece of tape and tape it onto the ramp so it touchs the ground like a plank. This is a simple fast conversion that makes it perfectly legal.

Also, if you want to shorten the flying stand, you can. It has been shown you can change this just not the black base portion.

Good luck, but dont worry common sense prevails!!

Caffran9 wrote:It does matter AT ALL what anyone on here says to do in terms of how to play it if you're bringing them to a tournament.

To be fair, he wasn't actually asking how people play it, just what the issues actually are.

Given the number of people who aren't aware of the problems with the model, making sure you know what to ask before contacting the TO (which was my impression of what this thread was for) is probably a good idea.

broxus wrote:To the OP, dont worry about it trust me they will allow you to treat the Valkyire as a normal transport for embarking and disembarking.

People keep saying this as if it's a solution...

It's treating the Valkyrie the same as every other transport vehicle that stops troops from being able to embark or disembark from it. Some sort of house rule is required to allow these actions, and as has been previously mentioned, there's a plethora of different ideas on how to best make that work.

So simply saying 'don't worry about it' and pretending that everything works fine is not at all helpful.

If they have an issue with it get a popsicle and a piece of tape...

That doesn't work any better now than it did the last time you suggested it, sorry.

Also, if you want to shorten the flying stand, you can. It has been shown you can change this just not the black base portion.

In practice, converting the flight base or just leaving it off is probably the easiest solution, and the one that I would think is the least likely to cause arguments... but the rules only allow it with your opponent's permission. It's in exactly the same territory as any of the other suggested house rules in that respect.

insaniak wrote:

Also, if you want to shorten the flying stand, you can. It has been shown you can change this just not the black base portion.

In practice, converting the flight base or just leaving it off is probably the easiest solution, and the one that I would think is the least likely to cause arguments... but the rules only allow it with your opponent's permission. It's in exactly the same territory as any of the other suggested house rules in that respect.

I'm confused about this, as I thought the flying stand's height was irrelevant and not an essential part of the model and is there merely to illustrate that the model is not traversing via ground. Am I completely wrong on this?

The Gopher wrote:I'm confused about this, as I thought the flying stand's height was irrelevant and not an essential part of the model and is there merely to illustrate that the model is not traversing via ground. Am I completely wrong on this?

The rulebook says that you can only use a base that is different to that supplied for the model with your opponent's consent.

The flight stem is an integral part of the flight base. Changing it changes the base.

The Gopher wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Also, if you want to shorten the flying stand, you can. It has been shown you can change this just not the black base portion.

In practice, converting the flight base or just leaving it off is probably the easiest solution, and the one that I would think is the least likely to cause arguments... but the rules only allow it with your opponent's permission. It's in exactly the same territory as any of the other suggested house rules in that respect.

I'm confused about this, as I thought the flying stand's height was irrelevant and not an essential part of the model and is there merely to illustrate that the model is not traversing via ground. Am I completely wrong on this?

Yes, you are utterly wrong.

Gwar! wrote:

The Gopher wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Also, if you want to shorten the flying stand, you can. It has been shown you can change this just not the black base portion.

In practice, converting the flight base or just leaving it off is probably the easiest solution, and the one that I would think is the least likely to cause arguments... but the rules only allow it with your opponent's permission. It's in exactly the same territory as any of the other suggested house rules in that respect.

I'm confused about this, as I thought the flying stand's height was irrelevant and not an essential part of the model and is there merely to illustrate that the model is not traversing via ground. Am I completely wrong on this?

Yes, you are utterly wrong.

To be fair, this has been a "solution" to the Valkyrie Problem that many posters have suggested. I can see how someone who is looking to others for rules guidance could have misconstrued that this was actually allowed by the rules.

"Cheese Elemental, meet Grav Chute Insertion.
Grav Chute Insertion, meet Cheese Elemental. "

i don't see how introducing Cheese to how disembarking is done if the Valkyrie / Vendetta moves flat out helps the OP or the discussion.

find out how valks are ruled in the tourney before paying entry fee!

alarmingrick wrote:"Cheese Elemental, meet Grav Chute Insertion.
Grav Chute Insertion, meet Cheese Elemental. "

i don't see how introducing Cheese to how disembarking is done if the Valkyrie / Vendetta moves flat out helps the OP or the discussion.

Because by the rules of the game you can't disembark any other way, except onto terrain that is elevated about 3".

Gwar! wrote:

The Gopher wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Also, if you want to shorten the flying stand, you can. It has been shown you can change this just not the black base portion.

In practice, converting the flight base or just leaving it off is probably the easiest solution, and the one that I would think is the least likely to cause arguments... but the rules only allow it with your opponent's permission. It's in exactly the same territory as any of the other suggested house rules in that respect.

I'm confused about this, as I thought the flying stand's height was irrelevant and not an essential part of the model and is there merely to illustrate that the model is not traversing via ground. Am I completely wrong on this?

Yes, you are utterly wrong.

I thought politeness was stressed in this forum? You may be right a good portion of the time Gwar, but your adversarial responses don't really help get your point accross.

Thank you for the response willydstyle , I completely forgot about that paragraph as I dont play with any models on flying bases.

The Gopher wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Yes, you are utterly wrong.

I thought politeness was stressed in this forum? You may be right a good portion of the time Gwar, but your adversarial responses don't really help get your point accross.

Christ All Mighty, you ask if you are wrong, and I let you know you are, and then you get pissy about it?