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I'm sure this isn't huge news to most of us, but I haven't really seen it discussed. I think that GW has been carefully moving over the past number of years to put a major crimp on the re-sale of it's products. Four or five years ago, it was easy to build an army used: buy the bulk on ebay, strip the metals, buy new bases and whatever bits you need, and away you go. Since then, the following things have occured:
1) The switch to plastic, while done for other reasons, hurts the ability to strip and repaint
2) Bases are no longer generally and cheaply available.
3) The bits needed to rehab old models are mostly unavailable, or in higher cost bitz packs
4) Terminators and IG weapons teams required or benefited from rebasing to bases that are very expensive


These are are defensible actions, but I think they are also part of a plan to slow the trade in used armies, or if nothing else, get a piece of the action.

This assumes that skilled veteran gamers/modellers are a major part of the customer base.

It would be easier for GW to invalidate old models by making new ones with new rules, oh, hang on...

Lol who is actually gonna rebase their IG HWs, not I

(Cue X-Files theme)

Of course, its all true to some extent. GW wants you to buy there stuff new. It is a business and it is a conspiracy but not a secret and not a very devious one.

RAW i can use my termies (which i got over 10 years ago) with the standard tiny bases because those are the bases they came supplied with.

I really don't see the move to plastic as part of a master plan to screw people simply because they are a little bit harder to strip. That is just too much of a stretch.

Wayfarer wrote:I really don't see the move to plastic as part of a master plan to screw people simply because they are a little bit harder to strip. That is just too much of a stretch.

Really? Why wouldn't it be a factor? It's not the main or even a major factor, but it is a nice bonus for GW. 5 Years ago, if you wanted to build a Deathwing army, you but the biggest lot of termiantors you coudl find on ebay, bits order the weapons you need and buy a bag of 40mm bases. Now, you buy the boxes new, because it's too big a pain to do anything else.

Not that I've tried, but I have heard of products that will strip paint from plastic models.

Also, plastic models are a lot cheaper to buy new than metal ones are, so I'm kinda happy with that move!

I'm not sure what you mean by "2) Bases are no longer generally and cheaply available."
You can get bases. I suppose cost is subjective.

Yes, GW would rather you bought new, from them, rather than 2nd hand from someone else (who might be giving up the hobby, but if he can't sell his models, might keep playing/buying more ...).

Getting Bitz is still possible, just not direct from GW.
DakkaDakka has a SwapShop section, for example.

I think your misunderstanding. Yes, plastics are strippable, but they're also assembled, meaning unless you're happy with the way they were built by the previous owner, there's not too much you can do

You used to be able to buy all of the bases in large bags for about $5, making 40mm bases roughly 25 cents a peice, and the big bases only a little more. Now the bases are only available in the mixed bags, or for dramatically more seperatly.

Obviously bitz are still available, and I doubt the ending of the GW bitz service was due simply to ending second hand army building. I am guessing that the relatively low amount of sales from bitz, coupled with a lot of those sales being to people not buying new armies, meant GW was losing money on a service that was in effect stealing business from it's main product line.

Polonius wrote:I think your misunderstanding. Yes, plastics are strippable, but they're also assembled, meaning unless you're happy with the way they were built by the previous owner, there's not too much you can do

I'm not really seeing how that's any different to the old metal models, where you were stuck with how GW had sculpted them.

Ripping the arms off a plastic terminator is not really any different to ripping the arms off a metal one.

Nor is it any more difficult to strip plastic than metal, so long as you're using the right stripper.



Rebasing I'm also not seeing as a factor, since so many players just don't bother. Unless you're buying second hand models that don't have bases, I'm not really seeing the problem.

Doesn't everyone have a big sack of extra bases anyway?

Mmm, whilst I agree that plastic is better for the game (the pro-metal argument over detail, with today's plastic sculpts, is particularly dated), I can only watch aghast as GW hikes up those prices anyway. It's no doubt a vicious circle, but then most things concerning GW are.

Wow. The new base prices are nuts.

60mm's are nearly $2 each, with 40mm's being just under $1 each. (Canadian dollars).

Crazy! A nice kick in the shins for those who enjoy making "scenic" bases.

It's definately possible to strip plastics easily and cheaply and reposing them is easy enough. If plastics were part of 'the plan' then I think 'the plan' failed. Those in the second hand purchace are by nature a very adaptable and ingenuitive. The bitz order thing was a bigger hit and the bases thing is just a helping hand for companies that will sell bases at reasoable costs.

It's sad when it comes to buying bases that Magnetic ones from GF9 are cheaper than buying plastic ones from GW.

I have to say that this is the first time I've heard the switch to plastic described as an evil plot to make people spend more money. Congratulations, you win a paranoia cookie.

Polonius wrote:I'm sure this isn't huge news to most of us, but I haven't really seen it discussed. I think that GW has been carefully moving over the past number of years to put a major crimp on the re-sale of it's products. Four or five years ago, it was easy to build an army used: buy the bulk on ebay, strip the metals, buy new bases and whatever bits you need, and away you go. Since then, the following things have occured:
1) The switch to plastic, while done for other reasons, hurts the ability to strip and repaint

Don't use acid to strip your figures, problem solved.

2) Bases are no longer generally and cheaply available.

Seriously?!? The Games Workshop $8 round base set or the Gale Force Nine quart container of lasercut non-slotta bases aren't good enough for you?

3) The bits needed to rehab old models are mostly unavailable, or in higher cost bitz packs

Buy two part resin, or greenstuff, and learn to sculpt if you need to fix up old models. Stop whining, please.

4) Terminators and IG weapons teams required or benefited from rebasing to bases that are very expensive

See #2.

These are are defensible actions, but I think they are also part of a plan to slow the trade in used armies, or if nothing else, get a piece of the action.

:lol:

I don't think Gamesworkshop is out to do any of that I think they are a business that is trying to make money.

Theres intent and effect.

But regardless of which it really is, they are doing a pretty good job of maintaining a pseudo monopoly on things.

They made the claim a while back the materials were getting more expenisve- so naturally bases had to go up in price along with everything else.

And a cheap option no one has mentioned yet- make your own bases.

Plasticard caome in different thicknesses- use the base in question to make a circle on the plasticard as its the perfect size for a ccutting template...

Personally I could care less about a tick dying on a dog's back in antarctica; the fact remains that unless you have some extra time to spend on making stuff (plasticard bases are just super easy...so they do not count , (a joke)) you are pretty much stuck buying at least half of your stuff new from GW. If you are lucky enough to find a bunch of NICE used models, that's great, but I have had terrible luck with finding anything of value that someone isn't trying to stiff me on.

I personally like the plastic models quite a lot, especially the new eldar models. But the fact remains that they are overpriced, and that really annoys me. I would recommend using counts as models if you are playing among friendly people, just buy the models you like, screw GW's coffers; GW is killing this hobby, not the people that can't afford to shell out 1000$US for the fancy new IG tank army or whatever the heck. Besides the price the plastic models are simply a million times better for conversions, so I think GW should be commended for that. It basically says to me, "Sure we want you to buy our stuff, it is expensive (for whatever reason), and because of this we want you to be able to convert your armies in any way you like". You just can't do the same stuff with pewter, and the fact that they are fantastic for painting makes the two types very different. Plastic is a lot cheaper overall, but the fact that you "have" to get the pewter to field a lot of the important elites and HQ is yet again annoying. You know that guy in the new star wars, that was anakins master (oh shiznit, white slavery...that is ); yeah the Vespid, that is the one. He is GW... lots of nice stuff... hey what is that behind your back GW?

If you take some time you can find some truly AMAZING minis, and ones that will suit your tastes beyond anyone else and their generic preferences.

I do feel like a lot of older players have pretty much lost interest altogether, and if they haven't are beginning to become so disillusioned, they may not stick with the game much longer. Perhaps GW wants this so they can prep their "new" market of 12-15; I call this the "Toys R' Us" category, where all of these kids have next to no idea about the game. In fact they may even wonder why the models are not like action figures, and may liberally test this theory with YOUR models..."JHFC kid... NOOOOOOOO!!!"

Honestly I don't think the care a fig about the secondary market or long time gamers in particular. If you aren't a tween coming into a GW store to pay full price they could care less. The do care about online stores undercutting their profit margin.

1. To strip plastic us Castrol Super Clean.
2. Bitz buy them off ebay.
3. Buy a resin casting kit, there like $40 at hobby lobby, cast bases to your hearts content.

Simple!

Polonius wrote:I'm sure this isn't huge news to most of us, but I haven't really seen it discussed. I think that GW has been carefully moving over the past number of years to put a major crimp on the re-sale of it's products. Four or five years ago, it was easy to build an army used: buy the bulk on ebay, strip the metals, buy new bases and whatever bits you need, and away you go. Since then, the following things have occured:
1) The switch to plastic, while done for other reasons, hurts the ability to strip and repaint
2) Bases are no longer generally and cheaply available.
3) The bits needed to rehab old models are mostly unavailable, or in higher cost bitz packs
4) Terminators and IG weapons teams required or benefited from rebasing to bases that are very expensive


These are are defensible actions, but I think they are also part of a plan to slow the trade in used armies, or if nothing else, get a piece of the action.

I think your reaching hear. I like a little paranoia, but these things are all pretty mundane.

1) As you said, done for other reasons. I doubt the ability to strip or repaint had anything to do with it whatsoever.
2) ? I get bags of bases from GW, and big tubs of cheap bases from GF9. Personally, and at my stores, we have huge boxes of extra bases, as they tend to send more than you need and they get dumped in the overflow box for whoever needs.
3) And went away for many reasons, none of which had anything to do with rehabbing old models.
4) Very expensive? A few bucks at most for most people, or a trip to the bitz box. And that's only if you feel you need to.

If you begrudge every spare nickel spent on bases and only buy used stuff, maybe it's a bit more difficult now, (or maybe not.) But it's a big reach to think GW is going to go to all that work just to hinder your ability to buy used stuff.

The bases are not unique to GW, you can get them from other suppliers, many 28mm figures come on "slotta" style bases now.

GW haven't gone over to plastic to scupper the second hand market (what a bizarre idea). They use plastic because it's easier and cheaper to produce in large quantities, reduces shipping costs and makes it a friendly product to younger players. Furthermore, for rank and file troops it's much better to have multi-part plastic miniatures, I find it difficult to believe there are many people who preferred masses of metal miniatures in only a handful of poses.

^ that was going to be my point.

GW aren't the only manufacturer of slotta bases. They are available from other suppliers for a lower cost.

Of course, most GW customers DO NOT KNOW THIS, as this ensures that they keep coming back to buy their crack at GW.

I can let you in on some future secrets that GW will be doing to make you buy more new models from them, instead of the secondary market.

First, next year will be the new rules set...Warhammer 50K. The models for this will have special magnetized bases, so you can play outdoors, or underwater or whereever, and not have to worry about the models falling over or being moved.

Next, they are going to start "coding" the miniatures with dates, so that you can't use or proxy the models into other editions. So no WH 40K models in Wh 50K. Furthermore, like Magic, they can start invalidating older models, making them unusable in tournaments.

Finally, the plans for Warhammer 30K, Horus Heresy, are in the works. All of the figures are going to be plastic, in Inquisitor scale. They will rock. You'll have to have a large table or floor to play though, and each figures will be about 10 dollars, so a full SM squad will be about 100 dollars.

I don't think the fact that bases can be supplied cheaply by companies besides GW is a good argument against GW overpricing their bases.

I agree with Polonius on the bases and bitz packs. I do think he's reaching on the heavy weapon teams and plastic models part though.

If we're really gonna look at GW's antics they do to sell models- lets look at the obvious.

In 4th Ed vehicles were pretty weak, all infantry armies did very well. Hence- vehicles didnt sell.

Enter 5th ed vehicle rules. Now even Tyranids want to go Mechanized. Rhinos, Chims and Valks are in high demand. So models that used to sit on shelves, are moving. And at higher prices.

GW is trying to make money.

They don't gain any money from sales of 2nd hand [used] goods.

GW isn't your friend.

Do you really blame them for any efforts to curtail sales of 2nd hand minis?

They want to make as much money as they reasonably can and quite frankly it appears they have a pretty good track record of doing so.

I think I"m being a little misunderstood. I'm not being paranoid, I"m not whining, and I'm not shocked that GW does things that make business sense. I"m not even saying GW has made decisions solely to crimp the secondary market.

I was just pointing out how, in many ways, GWs activities have curtailed the sale of used stuff, or at least impacted my buying and selling of used GW stuff.

Bases aren't that expensive. The round bases set costs $15 (AUD) and comes with 2 MC bases, 5 mid size bases and around 30 of the small ones.

At the very least I'll have to say that GW has done some things to acknowledge and take advantage of the secondary market. In fact, a few years ago they realized that if they assist people in engaging in those secondary market activities they can get a piece of the action. The US GW store flea markets, usually called "Bizarre Bazaar", have been a great way to find bargains, make trades or sell one's own unwanted items. They are also great community building events and I've met a lot of nice people and made some new friends at these events as well. Of course, as expected, much of the money exchanged at these events goes right into the till at the host store. Good for the customers and good for GW. GW is smart enough to know that there will always be trading and selling after customers buy new products and I'm not certain they've done much if anything directly designed to curtail it.

Regarding the issue of re-basing Terminators, at the time that the rules changed on Terminator bases a few years ago one could buy a bag of 25 40mm bases for $5.00 US, hardly expensive. It's only with the bitz and bases price restructuring in 2008 that the 40mm bases got to be expensive at 5 for $4.50 US.