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I don't think GW really intentionally targets the secondary market, but they certainly are under no obligation to accommodate or protect it.

Balance wrote:I don't think GW really intentionally targets the secondary market, but they certainly are under no obligation to accommodate or protect it.

Surely by doing away with their bitz and back catalogue they've boosted the secondry market for many collectable miniatures. Some years ago you could order all sorts of OOP metal miniatures. The prices in the collectable market were capped by whatever price GW were asking for their old stock. Around 1998-2000 I ordered a Genestealer Patriarch on his throne from their in-store ordering point. Now, as with many other figures, you have to go into the second hand market and get one off ebay, and I can assure you those Patriarchs on Thrones cost a good bit more than the £10 I paid.

Far from limiting the secondry market they've made many items exclusive to it.

I pretty much imagine that GW totally ignore the second hand market as being largely irrelevant to their business model.

Unlike the car market where it is in the interests of manufacturers to have a strong secondary market to support primary market sales (people will pay more for a new car if they can get a decent trade-in price for their old one), GW's new sales aren't as closely linked to what Joe Punter can get in trade-in for his old army. On the other hand, people who are so keen for a bargain they will buy second hand probably wouldn't buy new, given the option.

There is a certain freedom in knowing that GW is not your friend, merely one of many similar manufacturers of goods you may or may not wish to purchase.

I buy very little from GW these days.

Osbad wrote:I pretty much imagine that GW totally ignore the second hand market as being largely irrelevant to their business model.

Unlike the car market where it is in the interests of manufacturers to have a strong secondary market to support primary market sales (people will pay more for a new car if they can get a decent trade-in price for their old one), GW's new sales aren't as closely linked to what Joe Punter can get in trade-in for his old army. On the other hand, people who are so keen for a bargain they will buy second hand probably wouldn't buy new, given the option.

There is a certain freedom in knowing that GW is not your friend, merely one of many similar manufacturers of goods you may or may not wish to purchase.

I buy very little from GW these days.

Yup.

Polonius wrote:I was just pointing out how, in many ways, GWs activities have curtailed the sale of used stuff, or at least impacted my buying and selling of used GW stuff.

Agree, very astute observations.

Polonius wrote:1) The switch to plastic, while done for other reasons, hurts the ability to strip and repaint
2) Bases are no longer generally and cheaply available.
3) The bits needed to rehab old models are mostly unavailable, or in higher cost bitz packs
4) Terminators and IG weapons teams required or benefited from rebasing to bases that are very expensive

Good points:
1. I don't bother with used plastic, because it's a pain in the ass to strip and tear down for rebuilding. Plastic is cheap and widely available. My plastics are all new stuff, and I'm OK with that. My SM and CSM armies are new plastic, but they're not going to grow like my IG or Eldar. My IG and Eldar are metal, so I can grow them if I so desire. GW's tactic here doesn't really bother me.

2. I have enough bases. I actually have extras. So, this doesn't matter to me. Tho, FWIW, VOR (or VOID) sells 50mm round bases at GW height in the UK. Nice!

3. I have the bitz to make my SM army all-Beakies without a single Aquila chest. I have the bitz to make my CSM all-Tabards & Mk.IV (tho I will have to convert more Crusade helms). I have no need for bitz to rehab old models, and refuse to overpay for bitz, so GW simply loses out on additional sales here.

4. First off, there is *NO* requirement to rebase Terminators. They are fielded on the bases with which they were supplied, and conform to the rulebook requirements in every way. If someone has a problem with that, they can go feth themselves. Second, if GW were to enforce this, they'd have to ban Mk.1 Land Raiders, RT & 2E SMs, and nearly every conversion and "counts as" model created. It's not worth it, so GW leaves it alone.

With respect to the IG Heavy Weapons, I count myself as fortunate not to have to deal with WAAC-holes who would require such a thing. As with the IG Sergeants, it's simply not going to happen.


From my personal perspective, the secondary market is OK. The main reason is, most gamers buy far more than they build, and build far more than they paint. That has a couple key corollaries:
1. you can always obtain new GW product at a discount
2. you can always obtain old GW product for reuse
You just need to be a little bit more selective.

And GW helps this process along with the Bizzare Bazaar swap meets. In the last one, I got a Furioso for $10 (and stripped it, for conversion and repainting). I also got a brand-new metal Balrog for $15. I could have gotten lots of stuff for much less than half pre-increase retail, if I were so inclined.

As I've said before, GW can do what they want. And if they make it too irritating, they just won't get any more of my money. Contrary to what their bean-counters might think, they're not the only game company in the world, and people don't actually depend on them for enjoyment in life.

I once heard a redshirt tell a kid who mentioned ebay that most, or nearly all, second hand models on ebay were recasts, poorly done, and full of dangerous lead. I thought this was pretty funny, until I realized that the redshirt actually believed it. The line about lead recasts seemed to be a store standard if anyone ever mentioned ebay, or buying models used. Not sure if every store was like this, or just the one I was at.

JohnHwangDD wrote:From my personal perspective, the secondary market is OK. The main reason is, most gamers buy far more than they build, and build far more than they paint. That has a couple key corollaries:
1. you can always obtain new GW product at a discount
2. you can always obtain old GW product for reuse
You just need to be a little bit more selective.

Always is really a strong word to use here. Just because I can save 10% (which is a cruel joke IMHO) does not mean I did not have to spend way too much time researching through GW's divide and conquering marketing plan. For every hour of my time I think of 5$ just dissapearing; for every hour that I have spent while being frustrated by the difficulty of searching for discounts I think of 100$ dissapearing. This is where I get mad and no longer have any sympathy for the corporation that so willingly designed this system. Subtle though it may be (paranoia paranoia paranoia ) GW tries to keep the market in a headlock, while providing huge amounts of BEANS FOR THE BEAN GOD. Although I have taken time to look for other minis, I have found out that I HAVE TO use GW minis in a lot of games, and to that I say down with the BEAN GOD
Not gunna happen, I will just have to moderate my gameplay to people who can manage to continue the "intended" open-ended universe.

If an Ork says the Trukk goes fasta, no one argues, it just moves fasta.

"Note"
To no avail surely, I will attempt to tell you this is my two cents, and I spend them liberally. If my perceptions offend you to such a degree that you feel I have somehow directly insulted you, or that GW is a tiny child incapable of wrong-doing and the ability to cope with sincere criticism, I can't change your mind. It is not my intention to take down GW, I have no qualms with them, just the way that corporate america... and blablablablabla

At this point you either understand and agree with me or you totally despise me for breaking the serene and ghastly silence. Those who are in between may notice that I am not actually trying to take any direct action against this, and really have no plans too. I am just waiting to watch it all burn from a safe distance as I drink my last beer and sweet lady logic slaps me upside the head and screams "YOU GOT ANOTHER BEER?".

No, I mean that you can always get GW stuff.

Just the other day, I got a set of BRAND NEW Genestealer Hybrid sprues.

None of this stuff is rare or hard to come by when you look at things.


Nor do I (or anybody else on Dakka) need spend any excessive amount of time trying to save 20% or more.

Where did you get it?

Btown.

Thanks?

What is Btown?

Bartertown:

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/

Thank you.

Really? Why wouldn't it be a factor? It's not the main or even a major factor, but it is a nice bonus for GW. 5 Years ago, if you wanted to build a Deathwing army, you but the biggest lot of termiantors you coudl find on ebay, bits order the weapons you need and buy a bag of 40mm bases. Now, you buy the boxes new, because it's too big a pain to do anything else.

With AoBR it's even easier to build a deathwing army now! Plastic terminators are so cheap on ebay it's ridiculous. I've got 30 sitting around my house because I'm too lazy to list them for auction.

The only affect GW is having on the secondary market is making folks like me reconsider my 'always buy new' policy. Previously, the savings were not worth the time I had to spend getting old models to a usable state, or tracking down and bidding on new stuff I was interested in. I haven't used ebay in years cause of this, but I am surely tempted now.