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http://blog.ravagemag.fr/

Bonjour/ Hello

British (sorry i learn it many years ago) :Here you can see some pictures of the oni corp. The commanders (Thérians, UNA...) can use them like mercenarie.
Français :Vous pouvez voir ici des photos de la corporation ONI. Ils pourront être recrutés par tous les commandants quelque soit la race.

Have a good day !

More pics here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/244941.page

They make GREAT Chaos Obliterators!

Ooh, very nice! Just what I need, another army to collect

http://www.figouz.net/AT-43/ONI.php

You can see the officeer leader ant the shock troops. They look likes german army during the 2WW. The Wehrmacht helmet... hum hum.

Some of those regular infantry actually look a LOT like 40K Armageddon Steel Legion Troopers:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Steel.gif

Yeah, and Armageddon stole stuff from WWI and WWI Germans. Gues what, nearly everyone in the business has used this stuff for inspiration.

Cairnius wrote:Some of those regular infantry actually look a LOT like 40K Armageddon Steel Legion Troopers:

Oh lord the irony right there.
Because the concept hasnt been around since 1940s... and hasnt been used in:
You know like... World War 2 Germans? ( please please please tell me Cairnius knew about ww2 and Germany? its like one of the worst wars in history )
that or he is just trolling to make it sound like Rakham is trying to rip off GW .

Actually the helmet and gas mask of one type of infantry look German. Everything else is "zombified" And frankly, even the german helmeted troops remind me of some of the soldiers in anime movies and work great with an evil Japanese corporation theme. Here's a link to Zaius' website with all the Oni pics collected. He's a fellow Rackham Sentinel and does a great job of organizing pages on the new armies (and painting Karmans ):

http://www.figouz.net/AT-43/ONI.php

Check out all the minies for yourself!

Myrnir wrote:Actually the helmet and gas mask of one type of infantry look German. Everything else is "zombified" And frankly, even the german helmeted troops remind me of some of the soldiers in anime movies and work great with an evil Japanese corporation theme. Here's a link to Zaius' website with all the Oni pics collected. He's a fellow Rackham Sentinel and does a great job of organizing pages on the new armies (and painting Karmans ):

http://www.figouz.net/AT-43/ONI.php

Check out all the minies for yourself!

Sorry Myrnir , because you are new to Dakka , you dont know yet. Cairnius is on his petty crusade to bring down AT-43 1 whine at a time.
Yes , even going so far to say ONI 's German style helmet , gas masks , and coats are copied from GW ( rofl and he doesnt even address WW2 Germans )

Don't worry, I've been a Sentinel since AT-43 was "reborn" last October. I've sparred with Cairnius on numerous occasions and had several discussions with him on Warseer too. I try not to be argumentative and just present my own views. Btw, Zaius' site really is cool if you haven't checked it out yet!

Seriously, Luna, stop getting butthurt. I say that the ONI troopers look like Steel Troopers and you take that as some kind of insult?

Take it for granted that any Sentinel here knows precisely who I am. Most of them handle me with some maturity because they aren't children. Not everyone is going to agree with you about how awesome AT-43 is. Deal with it, and no worries.

Nevsky does some of the best AT-43 repaints I've ever seen, and I consider him the authority on the subject. I would hope that he and I are quite capable of discussing any games' models, their inspirations, and similarities to other model lines, without anyone crying about it.

Stop whining about me "whining." The irony is amusing, but it doesn't make you sound particularly intelligent, and I don't think you're stupid.

Back to topic


I was definitely not looking forward to another ...err... "human" faction... as I have the RB... so I jumo to cogs.... but now Oni came and they look SWEET.... hopefully the background makes me feel so excited too

Cairnius wrote:Some of those regular infantry actually look a LOT like 40K Armageddon Steel Legion Troopers:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Steel.gif

Nothing in this statement that says.

ATTACK INCOMING. Must retaliate.

Sentinels, please behave. You have a point histrical references are public domain, but so does he when he points out similarities.

Personally I am seeing ONI as closer to Warzone and the background looks to be a loose copy of the Umbrella Corp from Resident Evil. I think its a nice concept (if correct) as we might be getting our first true black hat faction. If you acept that the Therian self agenda is ultimately positive.


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Are we looking at AT-43 first multi-wound infantry? Dragomira special rules escepted.

I think low armour and two wounds will suit these *** infantry better than the usual pattern

Orlanth wrote:

Cairnius wrote:Some of those regular infantry actually look a LOT like 40K Armageddon Steel Legion Troopers:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Steel.gif

Nothing in this statement that says.

ATTACK INCOMING. Must retaliate.

Sentinels, please behave. You have a point histrical references are public domain, but so does he when he points out similarities.

Personally I am seeing ONI as closer to Warzone and the background looks to be a loose copy of the Umbrella Corp from Resident Evil. I think its a nice concept (if correct) as we might be getting our first true black hat faction. If you acept that the Therian self agenda is ultimately positive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Are we looking at AT-43 first multi-wound infantry? Dragomira special rules escepted.

I think low armour and two wounds will suit these *** infantry better than the usual pattern

i dont know who is sentinel or not.... but back topic...

Idont think they will have multiple wounds, as not even the Karmans have it... I do suspect low armor but high tech, like self repair system or so or Drugs to keep them fighting

I would love to see multi-wound type 3 inf! Frankly I feel the Karmans should all be multi-wound considered how big and armored they are. Not to mention the hideous point costs of their infantry And yes, that would be very cool for the Oni! I love those Oni TacArms

Heck I'm flattered some of the Oni look like Steel Legions because they were one of my favorite GW designs! No greatcoats/longer jackets on the Oni though

Edit: Sheesh Wolfen you beat me to the punch about the Karmans! Hint, hint Rackham

Myrnir wrote:I would love to see multi-wound type 3 inf! Frankly I feel the Karmans should all be multi-wound considered how big and armored they are. Not to mention the hideous point costs of their infantry And yes, that would be very cool for the Oni! I love those Oni TacArms

Heck I'm flattered some of the Oni look like Steel Legions because they were one of my favorite GW designs! No greatcoats/longer jackets on the Oni though

Edit: Sheesh Wolfen you beat me to the punch about the Karmans! Hint, hint Rackham

i am not aKarman player though but all the players in the official AT-43 forum say that although they can kick butt they are "fragil" and most of them support 2 wounds (using multiple rule styles i.e. 2 wounds or FNP style of rules) per model.

I am divided in Multiwounds models.... I cannot imagine what exactly can make a human or monkey to have 1 wound more versus a normal grunt.... in caso of ONI they make sense as as far as I know they are "zombies" dead..... but still I like when my infantry and heroes die equally when a big enough weapon hit them....

A 2-wnd Karman would still outright die when hit by a rocket, and I think the rocket heavy Red Block would actually benefit from a rule like that. I just think that if infantry are wearing heavy power armor, they should have more toughness and endurance. The Karman armor values aren't high enough to reflect their armor. I would have given them: type 1 inf: 7 armor, type 2 inf: 9 armor, and type 3 inf: the 11 armor they have, and then give the type 3 inf 2 wnds. A minor tweak overall, but would have reflected their power armor status better and would have made more sense given the hideous cost of their units. Just my personal opinion though.

Myrnir wrote:A 2-wnd Karman would still outright die when hit by a rocket, and I think the rocket heavy Red Block would actually benefit from a rule like that. I just think that if infantry are wearing heavy power armor, they should have more toughness and endurance. The Karman armor values aren't high enough to reflect their armor. I would have given them: type 1 inf: 7 armor, type 2 inf: 9 armor, and type 3 inf: the 11 armor they have, and then give the type 3 inf 2 wnds. A minor tweak overall, but would have reflected their power armor status better and would have made more sense given the hideous cost of their units. Just my personal opinion though.

Based on that I agree... but still dont like the "idea" of some models resist more than other just becasue they are more "elite"... i would just increase the armor as it would be reflected how much their endurance/ resistance is...

PERSONALLY I dont like the idea of GW multiwound captain or "heroes" .... MC or Aliens seem more logical to me and I could agree.... but why Dante can be killed mor difficulr than a "normal" SM for example....its not like the toughness increase with time or something

I agree that all individuals have roughly the same endurance and ability to take damage. The reason I would give the Karman type 3's an extra damage point is they are wearing "K-armor", which is not just power armor, but heavy power armor, and I view them as being one step removed from a full fledged type 1 strider. Just my thoughts.....

Myrnir wrote:I agree that all individuals have roughly the same endurance and ability to take damage. The reason I would give the Karman type 3's an extra damage point is they are wearing "K-armor", which is not just power armor, but heavy power armor, and I view them as being one step removed from a full fledged type 1 strider. Just my thoughts.....

AS per fluff---- If K-armor is heavy power armor then Kollosus is mega heavy power armor... so what happens now? you give three points?

I dont know... one of the proposals was to gave the Karmans wearing K-armor the same or similar rule as Dragomira... I found this more balance without the risk to overpower units... or individuals

Good point, and yes I think the Dragomira solution would work fine. Actually I think all type 3 inf should be separated by either a dragomira type rule or 2 wnds. They are supposed to be heavy inf, and coming in 3 man units, they should at least have 6 wnds to put them on a par with an 8 or 10 man type 1 - 2 inf squad.

Myrnir wrote:Good point, and yes I think the Dragomira solution would work fine. Actually I think all type 3 inf should be separated by either a dragomira type rule or 2 wnds. They are supposed to be heavy inf, and coming in 3 man units, they should at least have 6 wnds to put them on a par with an 8 or 10 man type 1 - 2 inf squad.

Infantry = X armor
Elite Infantry = X armor + 1 or 2
Heavy infantry = X Armor + n

In the end... each heavy armor is compensating/increasing the armor for their own armies.... not as a direct comparison between armies... did i explain myself correctly?

Wolfen wrote:PERSONALLY I dont like the idea of GW multiwound captain or "heroes" .... MC or Aliens seem more logical to me and I could agree.... but why Dante can be killed mor difficulr than a "normal" SM for example....its not like the toughness increase with time or something

I think the idea is that Toughness can reflect more than just the physical toughness of something's hide. It can also reflect battle prowess, dexterity, reaction times...Dante should be much more difficult to kill than a "normal" Space Marine because he's been at the forefront of battle for centuries.

Myrnir wrote:Good point, and yes I think the Dragomira solution would work fine. Actually I think all type 3 inf should be separated by either a dragomira type rule or 2 wnds. They are supposed to be heavy inf, and coming in 3 man units, they should at least have 6 wnds to put them on a par with an 8 or 10 man type 1 - 2 inf squad.

I could not agree with this statement more.

Part of why I got rid of Red Blok was because Kolossus units suck. They are slow, plodding - and they can get knocked down.

It is SO easy to just knock down a 3-mini Kolossus unit every turn and reduce them to uselessness - whereas TacArms have the gyrostabilizers. Much better units.

Now, if battlesuits had two SP each or something, that makes them much more attractive - and considering they're fully-armored, shouldn't they be more resilient than regular-old infantry?

Cairnius wrote:

Wolfen wrote:PERSONALLY I dont like the idea of GW multiwound captain or "heroes" .... MC or Aliens seem more logical to me and I could agree.... but why Dante can be killed mor difficulr than a "normal" SM for example....its not like the toughness increase with time or something

I think the idea is that Toughness can reflect more than just the physical toughness of something's hide. It can also reflect battle prowess, dexterity, reaction times...Dante should be much more difficult to kill than a "normal" Space Marine because he's been at the forefront of battle for centuries.

Err... So why WS, Leadership and I are there for, then?

Yes, those may increase with time as battle exeriences is gained.... so yes it seem logical that WS, BS and Ld is increased as the marine gets older... and thats there in the stats
arguably I would not increase but decrease....

but toughness.... really? cannot see the SPACE marines getting bigger and tougher over extended period of time... sorry but thats stretching too much


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cairnius wrote:

Myrnir wrote:Good point, and yes I think the Dragomira solution would work fine. Actually I think all type 3 inf should be separated by either a dragomira type rule or 2 wnds. They are supposed to be heavy inf, and coming in 3 man units, they should at least have 6 wnds to put them on a par with an 8 or 10 man type 1 - 2 inf squad.

I could not agree with this statement more.

Part of why I got rid of Red Blok was because Kolossus units suck. They are slow, plodding - and they can get knocked down.

It is SO easy to just knock down a 3-mini Kolossus unit every turn and reduce them to uselessness - whereas TacArms have the gyrostabilizers. Much better units.

Now, if battlesuits had two SP each or something, that makes them much more attractive - and considering they're fully-armored, shouldn't they be more resilient than regular-old infantry?

My experience is not your experience....

i have been very succesful with kollosus, maybe just Red Blok is NOT the army for you... as the tactics you prefer are not suitable for RB or have bnot used it correctly

Personally i think Kollosi ARE tough SOB that pound all other Tac Arms and infantry (except the mortar Karmans) even against type * AFV

That they need tact and positioning....? NO doubt....

and they ARE more resilent.... they have MORE armor than their standard infantry comrades.... the HUMAN (or monkey) inside the armor is the same as the normal inf so there is no reason to have 1 more wound

Because Dante would also be better with his weapons, and of course he's a leader. This is kind of a no-brainer, I'm not sure where the complaint lies...I already told you that Toughness doesn't necessarily mean the toughness of the thing's hide - and of course they would get tougher over time. They would get more dangerous, be better fighters...we're talking hundreds of years' worth of constant, hardcore combat.

Yes, you're correct in that Red Blok is not the army for me. Their accuracies suck and they died just as quickly as anything else. They were sold as a "Horde army," but I really don't see them that way. Their model counts aren't that much larger than other armies. Orks and Nids are Hordes. RB ain't.

Anything needs tactics and positioning...it gets tiresome to hear people ascribe these needs to one army over another. Any army, in any game, if you don't have some sort of tactics and position them properly, get killed. No army needs "more" tactics or "better" positioning than another, they need "different" tactics and "different" positioning than someone else.

I still agree with Myr - battlesuits should have more than 1 Wound. The extra Armor rating isn't enough for me. It's way too easy to kill anything in AT-43 if you don't suck at it. Just a matter of activating the right rock to smash the scissors, or the right paper to cover the rock.

Cairnius wrote:Because Dante would also be better with his weapons, and of course he's a leader. This is kind of a no-brainer, I'm not sure where the complaint lies...I already told you that Toughness doesn't necessarily mean the toughness of the thing's hide - and of course they would get tougher over time. They would get more dangerous, be better fighters...we're talking hundreds of years' worth of constant, hardcore combat.

Yes, you're correct in that Red Blok is not the army for me. Their accuracies suck and they died just as quickly as anything else. They were sold as a "Horde army," but I really don't see them that way. Their model counts aren't that much larger than other armies. Orks and Nids are Hordes. RB ain't.

Anything needs tactics and positioning...it gets tiresome to hear people ascribe these needs to one army over another. Any army, in any game, if you don't have some sort of tactics and position them properly, get killed. No army needs "more" tactics or "better" positioning than another, they need "different" tactics and "different" positioning than someone else.

I still agree with Myr - battlesuits should have more than 1 Wound. The extra Armor rating isn't enough for me. It's way too easy to kill anything in AT-43 if you don't suck at it. Just a matter of activating the right rock to smash the scissors, or the right paper to cover the rock.

Back to Dante-
Better weapons = better ballistic skills and weapon skill
Leadership = more leadership

So if toughness is NO the thickness of the hide PLEASE tell what you mean as all the previous examples yopu mentioned were covered by OTHER chacrateristics included in GW profiles... WS/BS/LD


TOUGH (form merriam webster)

1 a: strong or firm in texture but flexible and not brittle b: not easily chewed <tough meat>
2: glutinous, sticky
3: characterized by severity or uncompromising determination <tough laws> <tough discipline>
4: capable of enduring strain, hardship, or severe labor <tough soldiers>
5: very hard to influence : stubborn
6: difficult to accomplish, resolve, endure, or deal with <tough luck>
7: stubbornly fought
8: unruly, rowdyish
9: marked by absence of softness or sentimentality

I DO agree that a Marines as anyone in training WOULD become fit BUT as per GW specs I cannot see how a LASCANNON or X weapon Im not alking about a punch or hit with the fist. I am talking about big bad ass weapons including bolters hurt less Dante over a normal Marine as they have the same organs and so on...

SORRY thats just booring... the difference between a Marine and a human is 1 point in T thats fluff and justifiable From Dante to Carnifex looks good.... form normal grunt Marine to Dante is too exagerated as there is no logi behind WHY a marine is more resistant with age.....

and for whatever reason everything decays.... there was even a fluff mentioning ultrasmurf marine IIRC taht says that he is one of the few marines that reached to an OLD age and cannot fight anymore....

If thats is true.... I cannot see a Marine becoming tougher and Faster






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cairnius wrote:
Anything needs tactics and positioning...it gets tiresome to hear people ascribe these needs to one army over another. Any army, in any game, if you don't have some sort of tactics and position them properly, get killed. No army needs "more" tactics or "better" positioning than another, they need "different" tactics and "different" positioning than someone else.

I still agree with Myr - battlesuits should have more than 1 Wound. The extra Armor rating isn't enough for me. It's way too easy to kill anything in AT-43 if you don't suck at it. Just a matter of activating the right rock to smash the scissors, or the right paper to cover the rock.

It also gets tiresome when people say that Kollosus suck just becasue they are slow and can be grounded.... if thats so, then Karmans are delicate and only two so they suck.... Tac Arms have paper armor and they suck... thats not an argument.... Better say:


"I never could use them properly because the limitations of the red blok are not for my style of playing"

My point with tact (not tactics) and positioning is not that no one else need it.... but UNA and Therians ARE more forgiving with mistakes as the range and speed are better than RB... Red BLok is NOT as forgiving as if you get too close and bad positioning you are fried...

The extra armor is not enough? well RB is not for you...simple and clear

I still dont see the need to ADD 1 more Wound as the HUMAN OR Monkey are the same as the infantry not inside the armor

Dude, you're overthinking it. You decide what Dante's greater Toughness means, then, but I've never, in four years of tabletop wargaming, seen anyone ever question the increased Toughness of a Chapter Master. I tried to take your complaint seriously and address it, but I think I need to bow out of this one now. I don't think there's any satisfactory answer for you.

Same thing with the battlesuits. There's no good answer for you. Myr and I feel one way, you feel the other, and there's really no conversation here worth having.

I will never say that I cannot use any model in army properly. Of course I can - I'm a smart person, and AT-43 is an incredibly simply game comparatively.

Whether or not I have fun doing so is something else.

Cairnius wrote:Dude, you're overthinking it. You decide what Dante's greater Toughness means, then, but I've never, in four years of tabletop wargaming, seen anyone ever question the increased Toughness of a Chapter Master. I tried to take your complaint seriously and address it, but I think I need to bow out of this one now. I don't think there's any satisfactory answer for you.

Same thing with the battlesuits. There's no good answer for you. Myr and I feel one way, you feel the other, and there's really no conversation here worth having.

I will never say that I cannot use any model in army properly. Of course I can - I'm a smart person, and AT-43 is an incredibly simply game comparatively.

Whether or not I have fun doing so is something else.

There you go... in the end the discussion goes back to the "I have my idea and you yours lets quit it!" thats fine for me...

I remember the time of Herohammer and thing have improved.... i still PREFER (personal opinion) that my heroes are special but NOT superhumans that can kill grunts and grunts... but thats me....

I dont agree with extra wounds... as the human inside is the same... you dont agree...fine....

for the record... i am not offending your intelect or capacity to learn but still an opinion that says "sucks just because it doesnt work for me" doesnt gave any input or arguments..

and finally... I can say the same about you.... THERE IS NO GOOD ANSWER FOR YOU in the two forums I have see you... in differnt topics and issues, you dont agree with others.... and your objectivity is questionable to say the least... i gave you arguments of toughness and you bow down.... in my record that means that there are no way that you can actually justify the increment in toughness.... and in my 13 years of tabletop wargaming ive seen complains about everything...

BTW this is my last message as im leaving now for holidays...

I view type 3 inf as possibly needing more wounds from a unit stand point. Your average type 1 or 2 inf unit is going to have 8 or 12 guys, which translates to 8-12 wnds, whereas type 3 inf only have 3 wnds. Its much easier to wipe out a type 3 unit in that sense. They don't get any medics and the whole unit only get 3 wnds. That makes them rather fragile. Yes, the 11 and 12 armor ones are almost immune to small arms, but a pair of lasguns could take out 2/3 of the unit in a single salvo. The best that pair of lasguns could do against an 8 man type 1 inf is 2 hits out of 8 wnds for 1/4 of the unit. Doesn't make sense. Type 3 inf are baby vehicles. So I'd give them the extra wnd. They still don't have damage points for weapons and propulsion, which the bigger vehicles with more mass have, but this would give them some extra staying power in combat.

The alternative would be to let type 3 inf come in larger units. Maybe 5 man squads? But they are headed that way anyway. Lt Dragomira can be cloned in a GenCol platoon, so you can have several 4-man Kollosus units, and she gets the combat clone rule, so in effect a unit with her has 5 wounds. You will find the Cogs also will be able to field type 3 inf units larger than 3 as well Right now the Karmans and UNA type 3's suffer the most. I'd either give them more wounds, or more troops. UNA I'd at least allow TacArms to come in units of 4 or 5, and the Karman K-armor really should have 2 wounds.

Again, this is just my opinion. The game works fine as is, and as I've said, Rackham is already drifting towards allowing larger units of type 3 inf.

Myrnir wrote:I view type 3 inf as possibly needing more wounds from a unit stand point. Your average type 1 or 2 inf unit is going to have 8 or 12 guys, which translates to 8-12 wnds, whereas type 3 inf only have 3 wnds. Its much easier to wipe out a type 3 unit in that sense. They don't get any medics and the whole unit only get 3 wnds. That makes them rather fragile. Yes, the 11 and 12 armor ones are almost immune to small arms, but a pair of lasguns could take out 2/3 of the unit in a single salvo. The best that pair of lasguns could do against an 8 man type 1 inf is 2 hits out of 8 wnds for 1/4 of the unit. Doesn't make sense. Type 3 inf are baby vehicles. So I'd give them the extra wnd. They still don't have damage points for weapons and propulsion, which the bigger vehicles with more mass have, but this would give them some extra staying power in combat.

The alternative would be to let type 3 inf come in larger units. Maybe 5 man squads? But they are headed that way anyway. Lt Dragomira can be cloned in a GenCol platoon, so you can have several 4-man Kollosus units, and she gets the combat clone rule, so in effect a unit with her has 5 wounds. You will find the Cogs also will be able to field type 3 inf units larger than 3 as well Right now the Karmans and UNA type 3's suffer the most. I'd either give them more wounds, or more troops. UNA I'd at least allow TacArms to come in units of 4 or 5, and the Karman K-armor really should have 2 wounds.

Again, this is just my opinion. The game works fine as is, and as I've said, Rackham is already drifting towards allowing larger units of type 3 inf.

A unit of 4-5 Steel TacArms would seriously kill stuff in one salvo. Especially if led by a hero-fied LE "Open" TacArm... Fun for the UNA player, but less so for the reciever...