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I want to know why Cypher isn't in the CSM codex anymore cos he had a really nice background story and in the DA codex it says that his path of worlds where he is sighted is leading to Terra and the emporer himself!! This guy is the most awesome renegade EVA

WHERE HAS HE GONE GW??

I think he's been removed for that very reason.

Because no-one has a clue and they don't want you to either. it's one of those things they want people to speculate and wonder about.

The same with the Dark Angels and Lion El'Jonson (sp?). They want lots of controversy around the Chapter and that whole story.

Still, they have an old model for him
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1300042&prodId=prod1130401&rootCatGameStyle=
This is a link to a pic of him. He deserves a place in the codex.


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The model is also quite nice for an old one

I think he was removed because they already had a good number of special characters and maybe wanted to distance cypher from chaos (he may actually be a friend to the empire). Or it may just be because this latest codex is borked in a ridiculous amount of ways. We have a legion codex coming up sometime within the next couple years so hopefully we'll see Cypher re-added, he was one of my favorite special characters.

Each addition has re-added and lost certain special characters, and I'm sure GW had its reasons, but the problem is they don't really share those with us so we speculate. I personally could have done without Lucius. He just seemed uninteresting and prettyboyish. I would rather have some incredible iron warriors special character that can morph his hands into weapons or a noise marine special character if we want to stick with Slaanesh. There is also a distinct lack of psyker characters in csm's which I would like to see changed. I don't mean like Typhus that can use his nurgle power, but an Ahriman-style full on dedicated psyker(probably the best bet being a nurgle-worshipper).

Cypher was removed because it has been decided that he isn't a minion of chaos, he is something else.

Hey, I have that one. I picked him up a month or two ago, although I painted him differently.

@halonachos- Could you put it up on this thread, i would love to see it!

Aha i see you wondered too. So i am not the only crazy one confused on his whereabouts. I also think it is an awesome old model. I have him just not painted i was going to wait and build a fallen angel army before painting him.

Have you all read Angels of Darkness? That might add something to the discussion.

Angels of Darkness does tell you he is in the system around Piscina, well remembered!

@vindicator#9- I am planning to make a Dark Angels army of fallen, with renegade deathwing, that would be cool! though not probable because the deathwing are there to redeem the dark angels. Anyway I do plan to make a fallen angels army with Cypher at the head.

That would be cool. Would you paint them Pre-Heresy colors?

I imagined that he would wear a black robe and decided to screw around with the coloring of everything else.
Yes the picture quality sucks.

@imp. monkey you ought to do it anyway DW FA would be bad as hell expensive as hell too. Just use it as a pre heresy army with DW and FA rules. Just play casually with them. Hmm that makes me think do the FA use the same book as dark angels cause i dont think i have seen the troop stats in CSM codex or do they use the regular CSM stats? Sorry for my ignorance i just found this hobby last year.


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@imp. monkey you ought to do it anyway DW FA would be bad as hell expensive as hell too. Just use it as a pre heresy army with DW and FA rules. Just play casually with them. Hmm that makes me think do the FA use the same book as dark angels cause i dont think i have seen the troop stats in CSM codex or do they use the regular CSM stats? Sorry for my ignorance i just found this hobby last year.

@halonachos- The black is a good idea but it should be his armour that is black as the origional pre-heresy first legion (ie. DA) armour was black, don't actually know why they made it green

@vindicator- Should I use CSM codex or DA codex for them, also what should Cypher be in your opinion, as he is in the old CSM codex or as a DA company master?

Hmmm... for pre heresy use the DA book with Cypher being used out of the CSM codex just for a thought. That way he still has his good stats and you have the DA which of course is what they were pretty much before the heresy.

Which codex was he in, the last one or the one before that?

They say that he was in the 1st edition Dark Angels codex, referenced in the Black Templar 1st edition, and in the 1st edition Eye of Terror book.

Huh did not know that halonachos. @ imp. monkey Cypher is in the last edition the codex with the big ugly face on it.

His last ruleset IIRC was in WD just about the time EOT came out, with a bit of fluff that had him fighting a C'tan, and loosing his phase knife.

Personally, if I made a cypher + fallen angels army I would use the chaos codex. It would just be a lot more fun imo to have cypher + company with some chaos mutations like angel wings (possibly even just one wing or burnt/broken wings to show they are fallen) and make them a raptor squad and cypher the aspiring champ wielding a plasma pistol (you might even ask your opponent if he would allow a bolt pistol + plasma pistol even though the rules don't allow it). Just imagine a huge squad of raptors falling from the sky on top of you with guns blazing and then slice you to bits in hand to hand. I think it is safe to say that cypher is more imperial aligned today(probably trying to resurrect or give the emperor's peace to the emperor) but the chaos gods saved him and the other fallen so who knows what kind of abilities/curses he's gained from that Faustian bargain. To me, the pre-fallen Cypher was simply a Dark Angel marine that hadn't realized his destiny yet. He had earned the title of "Lord Cypher" and was an advisor to the dark angels , but after he joined the fallen he became extremely well known across the universe and became one of the most notorious figures in the 40k game setting.

I would not make him my chaos lord because he isnt necessarily the leader of a large group, he is more of an elite squad that joins in battles with other groups. He might be fighting alongside some ahriman-led thousand sons that are going to some far-off archive to plunder the knowledge and Cypher is coming along to steal some artifact/knowledge that will help him in his quest. Or he might be fighting alongside a newly renegade chapter (ie souldrinkers) or a borderline renegade chapter (ie relictors, etc) to complete some secret goal.

Maybe!

Actually, I heard that Cypher's fortress or stronghold (manned by wierd aliens) was overcome by both DA and another chapter. (I believe it was Black Templars). Black Templars were the ones that met him, and he did not resist in fact saying "Hmmmm, you are not the lapdogs of the Lion. How interesting...". Consequently, all contact was lost with that particular crusade. (Mabye DA are REALLY desperate)

You know what happened to Cypher?

He's a Dark Angel, and therefore has gone back to the recesses of his cave to cut himself and cry. He has no chance of touching Terra, end of story. And if you want to argue he can get there, this is the 40k universe, where GW tries to keep selling minis. If they let Cypher kill the Empra (Or get onto Terra and cause havoc to moral), END OF STORY.

No thats not true, his whole idea is that he is on a quest to get there, if you read some of the posts here you would see that he may not be trying to cause havoc on terra, he is going to the emporer to seek redemption and hand the lions sword to the emporer kinda like a peace offering!

There's a couple of ideas about it. Most of them sprouted from Dark Angels players who want to believe Cypher isn't a total idiot.

It's not going to matter, he won't make it. If he even tries to get that close, havoc will be caused and gaks and giggles will occur. Therefore, it can't happen. Cypher was made to sell you another model and more because you had to buy upgrade packs to get the robe bits.

There is no need to be so depressing about it, GW do this to ultimately sell models and make money (however much they try to tell us otherwise) you do just have to get into the spirit of it all!

Actually, it's easier to get to Terra thsn you think. How many pilgrims go there every day? Then it would be a matter of evading the custodes...no easy task mind you.

I'm taking cypher as a CSM Lord with the mark of Tzeentch and I'm counting his pistols as a demon weapon. Which means he can blast right through space marines, so I think it's a more than acceptable substitution for bolt and plasma pistols.

I am wondering if he will be added in when they come out with the new combined Inq codex.

Didnt the IG use to be able to use him as an ally? I dont have that codex right in front of me, but I thought they could