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so can they?

Well, in my opinion: No problem. Leman Russes of any kind are what I see as another big strength of the Guard. They're cheap, they're AV14 and they pack more weapons and weapon options than the artillery guns. While artillery is good, I don't feel it is needed.

Well the big guns certainly help...and some of the best IG armies are artillery based. I reckon that if you're playing IG without artillery you might as well switch to Eldar or Orks.

yeah.... melta guns are only 10pts so get 1 hq... then 6 platoons with platoon command with meltaguns and bombs, then 6 imfantry squads, conscripts...


end up with like 200 men in one game...

space marine terminators cannot survive around 250 shots from the lasguns in one round...

THE POWER IS IN THE INFANTRY!!!

Elegost

Yes of course..russes and hydras can be the heavy support units...marbo and skimmer mounted units with demo charges can be used to weed out units which normally you would artillery to shift..

the thing with conscripts there only leadership 5 and there not as tough or as good at shooting like there infantry squad brothers. plus space marine wirl wind fires thats a huge chunk of points down the tube. I am going for an infantry based army not many players prepare for those tactics (in my oppinion)

9 Vendettas all with las cannon.

Veteran squads all with melta or flamer riding in heavy flamer chimera.

I think those are powerful enough as it is without need for artillery.

Proven fact: Guard are only good because of Russes. No need for artillery, just take 3 russes at 1000pts instead.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:Proven fact: Guard are only good because of Russes. No need for artillery, just take 3 russes at 1000pts instead.

Ah here you are dead wrong, especially with 5th ed rules as well as the new dex...ONLY is a strong word...and is as of now is entirely false..

Is this thread about artillery, or about large-pie-plate-causing vehicles?

I absolutely think they can. With the ridiculous combinations of armor IG can field, they don't need artillery most often lol.

"artillery" here means artillery vehicles...such as basilisks et al...rather than artillery as defined in the BRB (big gun and crew), as the IG dex does not have artillery field guns...

Real Men Ride Tanks



...doesn't mean artillery isn't fun as bro

Yes. Next question.

...

It's actually pretty common to field IG that depends on battle tanks and transports for support. Infantry guard used to be pretty popular and is probably still viable, but it's a challenging army to collect and deploy.

The IG artillery really only adds two big things to the list: the ability to threaten armor at range (with the medusa) and the ability to wipe out MEQs in cover (with the colossus). The basilisk and Griffon are fine peices, but IMO don't add much (aside from barrage) to a list that's full of high strength blasts.

As for a list succeeding without any ordanance at all? I think it's still highly possible. A couple of platoons, plenty of melta vets in chimeras, some vendettas, hyrdras as the heavies... I like it.

Its possible, but it requires either a lot of finesse with melta vets, or 12 grand $ of troops. Your horde eater will have to be hellhound/variants, and you will have a much higher dependence on heavy weapon teams, not bad but they will die faster then artillery tanks. The big thing to be worried about is having a high strength weapon that can attack the target. With artillery you could hit any target on the board with s9. Now you need to see the target and aim carefully. It is possible, but complicated.

Artillery is a decent option for IG lists, but nowhere near required.

I have three Basilisks, and boy are they fun. They can instagib entire squads of MEQs and pulverise tanks with ease.

Yes, IG can.

My friend plays IG and he plays them really well. A few times he'll do that IG combine squads to make one big massive 50+ man unit that's a fricken BEAST to kill.

He also changes his tactics and I'm really impressed on how flexible the IG can be. Can they win? Yes, from my experience.

If "Artillery" = "AV12/12/10 Ordnance platforms", then Guard don't need them.

If "Artillery" = "Ordnance on AV14/12+/10+ platforms", then NO, Guard can't really be competitive.

I'm a huge fan of Demolishers to get in the opponent's face and wreck stuff, and S10 AP2 plates tend to do that when supported by more AV14 pie throwers.

I think guard could work without artillery, or even heavy tanks. Your best option at that point though would be vets in Valkyries/vendettas and with hell-hounds (and it's variants). To be honest though this army would play very similarly to Eldar.

all very good ideas. im planing to take 70 standard infantry with 2 heavy weapons squads one with lascannons and the other with mortars, then storm troopers and ratlings, and a couple of vehicles like a valk and bane wolf so it will be a mobile army mostly, oh yeah and a vanquisher to snip enamy armour.

I actually don't have a single ordinance battery.... the closest thing I have is a heavy weapon mortar squad. Tanks are pretty essential to the IG army, in my opinion, but artillery is not. Without tanks, you revert back to the old "Horde" version of the guard. Its possible to be competitive with horde guard, but it is a whole lot harder. Instead of relying on your armor for protection and mobility, you would have to rely on cover and orders, both of which are a lot more variable.

My 2 cents.

My army relies on mass infantry backed up by standard russes. Artillery is just to fragile for me for it to be worth while.

Lord Bingo wrote:My army relies on mass infantry backed up by standard russes. Artillery is just to fragile for me for it to be worth while.

with your build russes are really required..artillery vehicles do much better as part of an AV12 spam list.....with so much vehicles the artillery becomes less of an immediate target, and even if they are that means the chimeras plus the SW toting infantry in them get a better chance closing in and destroying the enemy....

Well, it's important to seperate discussions of IG armies without indirect fire ordnance, IG armies without ordnance, IG armies without AV14, IG armies without either ordnance or AV14, IG armies without heavy support, and IG armies without vehicles at all.

All infantry isn't as bad as people think, thanks to the Psychic Battle Squad helping to scare off non-fearless units, Sly Marbo causing trouble, and tons of heavy weapons. It's probably not worth the effort, but I think it could be effective.

As for a list without AV14, how about this at 1850:

CCS, 4x Melta, Chimera
PBS, Chimera
3x Vets w/ 3x Melta in Chimera
3x Vets w/ 3x Melta
3x Vendetta
2x Hydra
2x Hydra
Hydra

Yes they can. The different Russ variants provide more than enough support fire for most needs. Indirect fire comes into its own on tables with lots of LOS blocking terrain ( cities, hills etc. ).

Polonius wrote:Well, it's important to seperate discussions of IG armies without indirect fire ordnance, IG armies without ordnance, IG armies without AV14, IG armies without either ordnance or AV14, IG armies without heavy support, and IG armies without vehicles at all.

All infantry isn't as bad as people think, thanks to the Psychic Battle Squad helping to scare off non-fearless units, Sly Marbo causing trouble, and tons of heavy weapons. It's probably not worth the effort, but I think it could be effective.

As for a list without AV14, how about this at 1850:

CCS, 4x Melta, Chimera
PBS, Chimera
3x Vets w/ 3x Melta in Chimera
3x Vets w/ 3x Melta
3x Vendetta
2x Hydra
2x Hydra
Hydra

With that amount of AV12, why not toss in a manticore for long range tank busting goodness...great versus hordes too....you can drop a hydra squadron for the manticore...

I wanted to avoid ordnance as well. I think a better list drops a few hydras for a manticore or two.

The secret lies in meltaguns and dedicated AT lascannon/autocannon support squads, as the grunts have your anti personel pretty much covered, especily if they are blobed and FRFSRF'ed. This is a bad tactic against assaulty armies and rhino/chimera spam, when you simply need to fire at five different targets at once.