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Just started WH40K, played a few times now (my army is the necrons.)
Army
1 Lord VoD GoF
20 x warriors
3 destroyers
6 scarabs

I'm thinking of what figures to go for next, but to be honest, reading thru these boards, I generally hear a lot of bad press about most of the unit types for the necrons.

My thoughts were that the Immortals looks pretty nice (with Lord), range 24", 2 shots, move and assault. Linked with VoD this could be nice. But I often here they are a waste of points.

What would be your esteemed thoughts on this?
What about wraiths (for a combat unit)?
What about tomb spiders?
I feel like I darent mention Pariahs or Flayed Ones as I have heard nothing positive.

Would love your views ...

Wrong forum. YMTC is for rules discussions. Moving to Tactics.

Immortals are good units! They're surprisingly mobile, considering that they're Necrons, and their T 5 means that they're going to get WBB from almost every kind of ranged weapons, barring Demolisher Cannons, even without a ResOrb Lord hanging around.

Uh, that said, you need a ResOrb Lord. Preferably a Destroyer Lord with ResOrb. The Resurrection Orb is vital to keeping Necrons alive.

You're also going to want some Monoliths. 2-3 is good, depending on whether or not you want to field any Heavy Destroyers. They let you warp models through, and thus re-roll failed WBB rolls, as well as putting out a considerable amount of fire.

I've seen some good lists with Tomb Spyders.

Don't touch Wraiths, Pariahs or Flayed Ones. Eugh.

Immortals are so good because their increased stats and weapons mean they operate more aggressively then regular necron warriors.

- T5 means they have less need of a res orb, as only S10 and power weapons deny their WBB.
- S5 guns means they put out alot more hurt
- 2 shots at 24" means they can reach out and touch someone alot easier
- Assault weapons mean they can always move and shoot for their full effectiveness.

So immortals are good.

Thanks guys. (Sorry for the wrong forum).

As you can probably tell from the army list, we are only on 750 points at the moment and very slowly building, so I was more thinking, what figures to buy for my next unit (so getting up to 1000points.)

Hard to go wrong with Immortals. Superior firepower & durability, and less dependent on being close to a Res Orb.

I'd advise against getting Immortals. They are a good unit, but Destroyers are at least on par with them, perhaps even better. Since you already have some Destroyers, I'd advise to get some more of those.
In strong army lists, redundancy is often key. This goes for every army, but especially for the Necrons, due to the nature of the WBB special rule. So this is why I'd opt for more Destroyers instead of Immortals.

Honestly, Immortals are my favorite unit in the Cron dex. They are just so tough, mobile, and shooty!

The are even better if you keep a Mono near them, so that you can "bamf!" away from any assult units that are getting too near, or that have already assaulted them...plus the second chance at WBB for such a tough unit is even better

I'd say more Destroyers myself. They're awesome, and as someone else said, redundancy is importa t to maintaining WBB rolls.

Destroyers do more damage, immortals do good damage, while also padding your phase-out number a bit, but are not as mobile.

More bodies=good.

I like immortals, and don't see any problem to taking both destroyers and immortals, but I think I'd get a second unit of destroyers first, then move onto immortals.

I think the problem is that destroyers and immortals do pretty much the same job. The only difference being that destroyers are more expensive and are capable of moving faster with a higher strength weapon that has more shots, where as immortals get you a higher phase out with slightly less damage output. I would choose 1 of them and be done with it.

I personally love the immortals, but my wallet hates them (and if that's going to be an issue check out 1 of the tutorials on how to make immortals from warriors).

Thanks guys ... some good advice.

Sorry for being a little thick here ... but what does "redundancy" mean. A couple of post talk about how important it is ... so I was wondering.

With the extra 250-300 points I could spend getting up to 1000 points, would you not advise something else, like Wraiths or spiders?

(I agree about the price Lukus83. No way I was going to be paying that sort of money for a unit of 10. I was going to modify warriors. Thanks for the tip though, I will check out the tutorials)

Fletcher wrote:Sorry for being a little thick here ... but what does "redundancy" mean. A couple of post talk about how important it is ... so I was wondering.

By redundancy people mean: having multiple units which are exactly the same, so that when you lose one of those units (perhaps due to bad luck, or by a tactical error), you will still have the other unit, which can obviously do the exact same job the first one was supposed to do. For example: I take multiple units of Fire Dragons in my Eldar army, so that if one of their transports gets shot down, the other unit will still be able to destroy my opponent's heavy tanks.
Redundancy gains another dimension in a Necron army due to the nature of the WBB special rule. If an entire unit gets wiped out, your unit won't get any WBB rolls unless there is a unit of the same type within 6".

Fletcher wrote:With the extra 250-300 points I could spend getting up to 1000 points, would you not advise something else, like Wraiths or spiders?

I would never advise someone to take Wraiths. Tomb Spiders are alright, but your army really needs some more ranged shooting. Close combat is the bane of Necrons, so you will want to be able to destroy your opponent's from far away. This is exactly what Destroyers (and Immortals to a lesser degree) are good at.

Redundancy also helps when an opponent goes overboard on a particular type of unit that you wouldn't be a ble to deal with if you had only taken one unit to counter it. Every single time I play against Necrons with my mixed Nids, every single one of my gaunts, and usually all of my genestealers, die. I usually use around ~50 gaunts and ~30 genestealers, and what really puts them down is the support fire from Destroyers and Immortals. If my opponent had either one but not the other, it would be much easier to overwhelm him, but since he usually takes both, it's like running my troops into a lawnmower.

Spiders are good, and useful for wbb, destroyers are also good, they throw a lot of firepower at the enemy, guard hate desroyers. heavys are also good, but if i were you, id go for a monolith. then immortals. flayed ones and pariahs, i have no experience with, and wraiths can be annoying to keep alive. id go for a mono and the immortals. if you can convert warriors to immortals, the its even better.

Destroyers are superior in 5th edition. They pop Rhinos, and can actually stay at a distance sufficient to avoid assault (24" ain't what it used to be).

Thanks guys - some good advice there

One thing to note here about Immortals vs Destroyers is that yes, Destroyers have longer range, +1 weapon strength, and move faster, however, due to the fact that they are more expensive for the same toughness, for each destroyer you lose, you lose more shots and make the rest of the squad easier to kill. Additionally, for every Destroyer WBB roll you fail, that's less power on the board...THAT is why it's nice to have more bodies (in cases like Immortals) on the board: So each death doesn't mean as much.

Oh, also, due to destroyers speed, they often get out of range of the monolith's portal...another thing to think about if you're using monoliths for that second WBB chance...

How good are they? Dude they are... honestly, they are possibly the best unit in the game, hands down. And then it is before Lord, Veil and Monolith.

Destroyers are just fancy BS4 Jetbikes. Woo. But Immortals are tres cool.

Edit: Yes but in your actual list itself you probably want some more Destroyers.

The only thing I dislike about Immortals is their crappy hard-to-assemble models. I'd always want some in my army.

honestly, they are possibly the best unit in the game, hands down. And then it is before Lord, Veil and Monolith.

Ork Nobs. Assault Terminators. Land Raiders. Abbaddon the Despoiler. Vulkan He'stan. Sisters of battle. Lootas. Farseers. Leman Russes. Basilisks. Mechvets. Ghazgull Thrakka. Obliterators. Lash Princes. Jetpack Canonness. Grey Knight Terminators. Plague Marines. Broadside Battlesuits. The Deciever. Callidus Assassin. Space Wolf Scouts. Sternguard. Carnifexes. Genestealers.

I could go on.

Thanks guys, some really great advice.

I guess I will be going down the route of a few more destroyers first, then buy a monolith, then go the Immortal route. This will be LOADS of points for my mates (who are struggling to top the 800points barrier, so I guess I have a decent amount of time left.) Because of the WBB rules, I guess what I really need is 3 more destroyers as a separate unit and keep them within 6" of each other so I can WBB if one unit is wiped.

Thanks again folks, I feel much better about Immortals now. (And it looks like all the comments I have read about wraiths, pariahs and flayed ones being pants ... is pretty much true)

Fletch.

Sanguine Sympathy wrote:

honestly, they are possibly the best unit in the game, hands down. And then it is before Lord, Veil and Monolith.

Ork Nobs. Assault Terminators. Land Raiders. Abbaddon the Despoiler. Vulkan He'stan. Sisters of battle. Lootas. Farseers. Leman Russes. Basilisks. Mechvets. Ghazgull Thrakka. Obliterators. Lash Princes. Jetpack Canonness. Grey Knight Terminators. Plague Marines. Broadside Battlesuits. The Deciever. Callidus Assassin. Space Wolf Scouts. Sternguard. Carnifexes. Genestealers.

I could go on.

BS4 T5 3+ with We'll be Back!, S5 24" Assault 2. And they can even wound vehicles if you want to waste the shooting. They trump the only comparable units in the codex, Warriors and Pariahs, other than the fact Warriors are Troop. They are more expensive than Warriors but they are also T5, which makes a big difference, really.

Lash Princes are OK.

We all know their stats, you don't need to repeat them. They are a good unit for the necron codex, but the necron codex sucks. You want comparable power, try wraithguard. T6 SX AP2 weapons. And they can be mechanized, which immortals can't. They pen land raiders on a roll of 5 or 6. Oh, and they score.

Face it, immortals are good, but they are far and away not worth of the title of "best unit in the game"

You can't teleport a Wraithguard around the board either. Immortals are also expensive in $$, but not Wraithguard expensive. What are those things now, $20 a piece? Wraithguard have their place, and it's a fairly narrow place as long as GW insists that they be a wall unit with 1 normal attack each and a 1 shot weapon with a 12" range. Immortals can reach out and fry something with much better than average firepower.

The Necron codex is underpowered because of how 5th edition hit them, and many of the units being fairly poor investments to start with. Immortals are still a great unit. Tougher than Terminators, each carrying a mini-heavy bolter than can also glance heavy vehicles in a pinch, and benefit from We'll be back to boot, so those nasty plasma weapons and such that cut through plague marines so well can get blunted firing on Immortals.

They aren't as fast as Destroyers, on their own, but are less likely to get wiped out all at once by enemy shooting and preventing wbb that way. They also help to beef up your shooting at 24", the range at which your army must do its damage, considerably. Now, some people playing Necrons these days will keep their Warriors and things in Reserve as long as possible while walling up Monoliths and zipping around with Destroyers zapping things, so in that format Immortals might not be that great unless you want a lord to port them around. If you get tired of playing gunline then you'll have to get creative on how to use them.


Deciever themed Necrons have been doing well in certain tournament scenes. There are some battle reports in the relevant section that should help give the op an idea of how to win with Necrons.

Thanks Railguns, it's a good point about their resistance to shootability (with more wounds per points.)

The other thing I guess I like is the idea of the immortals - and I like ground troops. So maybe I will go with them ... but if I do, I shall sure as hell adapt warriors. No way I am paying that sort of money for a few figures.

What would you say is a minimum unit size (bearing in mind my tight points limits.) Would you go for 5? Those are comparible in points with 3 destroyers ....

Sanguine Sympathy wrote:We all know their stats, you don't need to repeat them. They are a good unit for the necron codex, but the necron codex sucks. You want comparable power, try wraithguard. T6 SX AP2 weapons. And they can be mechanized, which immortals can't. They pen land raiders on a roll of 5 or 6. Oh, and they score.

Face it, immortals are good, but they are far and away not worth of the title of "best unit in the game"

Wraithguard are crap. "I should know, I've tried them enough times." You can take 10 of them, count them as scoring, give them a cool upgrade character and add one of the best HQs in the game (Eldrad), which is a good bodyguard for him being tough, fearless and slow anyway and they will still be crap. Maybe if they had something like 3 attacks in close combat. Which they don't.

No, Immortals are a great unit, and the Necron book is a good book, too. Especially considering how old it is.

I will admit grudgingly they are "OK" in a Wave Serpent. If you really want to take them.

Wraithguard's only real use, and not to go off-topic, is to provide cover saves for everything else. But only if you really want to.

I'd go for at least 10 Immortals in a squad - you want them numerous enough that one good round of enemy shooting is unlikely to wipe them all out.

Immortals aren't bad,but against MEQ armys they're dirt,and against Hordes is where they excell the most!

Immortals are more "durable" than Destroyers primarily, to me at least, because people take large squad sizes and are thusly harder to wipe out and prevent WBB. Destroyers are also T5, but I always see those in groups of 3 or maybe 4, so the few wounds that get through their T5 and armor save are going to count for more , especially since they are very likely to be out of Orb range unless the Lord has a Destroyer body. If you're going to take them, take the full compliment first. it's expensive, but if you want to use them then thats the best way.