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It doesn't matter what you get next.

You will want 30 immortals and 15 destroyers at your disposal.

Find a good deal and take either one.

Tacobake wrote:
No, Immortals are a great unit, and the Necron book is a good book, too. Especially considering how old it is.

I CAN'T.
STOP.
LAUGHING.

Canonness Rory wrote:

Tacobake wrote:
No, Immortals are a great unit, and the Necron book is a good book, too. Especially considering how old it is.

I CAN'T.
STOP.
LAUGHING.

Necrons won a Grand Tournament not too long ago. Although admittedly that was before some of the newer books.

So? Tau and Dark Eldar have won GTs. That doesn't mean it is a regular occurrence.

Tacobake wrote:How good are they? Dude they are... honestly, they are possibly the best unit in the game, hands down. And then it is before Lord, Veil and Monolith.

Destroyers are just fancy BS4 Jetbikes. Woo. But Immortals are tres cool.

Edit: Yes but in your actual list itself you probably want some more Destroyers.

Destroyers are just fancy BS4 jetbikes with 3 str 6 shots each. Also they are T 5 as opposed to T 4(5).

Destroyers and immortals complement each other well in a shooty necron list. I would plan on using both unit types as you progress to playing in higher point level games.

Until then I'd maybe get a second unit of destroyers first; although you're doing good either way.

Need moar warriors.
2X15 man squads at least.

oggers wrote:Need moar warriors.
2X15 man squads at least.

If you want to lose by phasing out after a couple of sweeping advances.

Immortals are good, but don't discount Destroyers either. They have the mobility and range the threaten most of the board, with higher strength shooting. I would still use them if you hade the chance.


Edit: Because my spelling while using a keyboard is atrocious.

imweasel wrote:It doesn't matter what you get next.

You will want 30 immortals and 15 destroyers at your disposal.

Find a good deal and take either one.

Wait, could you clarify this? You say "and" in the first statement, but then revise it to "or" with the last one...

60 shots at strength 5 compared to 45 shots at strength 6. The difference being that the former choice has twice as many wounds, costs only a wee bit more (840 vs. 750) and doesn't take up any potential places for Scarabs (you aren't using Wraiths, right? ) which are extremely useful depending on what you are facing. So assuming only 10 destroyers that's even a worse comparison.

Not to mention that the immortals contribute more to Phase Out than the destroyers do. Granted the destroyers are less likely to be charged, but if that's a problem you're not doing something properly.

I personally prefer Immortals simply because sticking them with a res orb is a lot more viable an option than destroyers (having a Lord that keeps up with them costs more and is practically useless for shooting).

The only downside to Immortals from a Necron point of view is the model itself. It is ridiculously expensive (at my FLGS it's $18 for one, ouch) and ridiculously annoying to assemble (although converting warriors into immortals is relatively easy). Rumour has it than GW will release plastic immortals for 5th, though.

HolyCause wrote:
60 shots at strength 5 compared to 45 shots at strength 6. The difference being that the former choice has twice as many wounds, costs only a wee bit more (840 vs. 750)

A couple things to note here:
Firstly, that 1 point difference of strength can actually mean the difference in many cases (ID'ing IG heavy weapon teams is nice), and those 45 shots also have 12" more range, which is where destroyers really shine
Second, a 90 point difference is actually quite a lot, almost 2 destroyers, which would change your example to 60 shots vs. 51 shots

HolyCause wrote:Not to mention that the immortals contribute more to Phase Out than the destroyers do. Granted the destroyers are less likely to be charged, but if that's a problem you're not doing something properly.

True, Immortals count better against Phase Out (something I have said earlier already), however, using your above example: It is a LOT easier keeping 15 destroyers out of assault as compared to 30 slow Immortals.

HolyCause wrote:I personally prefer Immortals simply because sticking them with a res orb is a lot more viable an option than destroyers (having a Lord that keeps up with them costs more and is practically useless for shooting).

I also agree here technically. However, due to the facts that there are not a lot of S10 in most armies, and the fact that destroyers should never get into assault, I find that I can often have them going around without a res orb at all, and have them always able to get WBB.

Second, a 90 point difference is actually quite a lot, almost 2 destroyers, which would change your example to 60 shots vs. 51 shots

If you can somehow field 17 destroyers using standard force charts...

Also remember that if one wishes to field any scarabs, that further lowers the amount of destroyers one can take.

I also agree here technically. However, due to the facts that there are not a lot of S10 in most armies, and the fact that destroyers should never get into assault, I find that I can often have them going around without a res orb at all, and have them always able to get WBB.

this is true. I guess the last time I fielded a lot of destroyers I forgot that ranged <AP3 does NOT deny WBB (noob mistake, I'm still modestly green to 40K) I was kinda of scorched against using destroyers. Perhaps next time I face those pesky space marines, some destroyers will shoot up those terminators.

WBB is not FnP, but Destroyers still won't get their WBB if the whole unit is isolated and then wiped out with shooting. This isn't hard if the unit is the typical 3 models I keep running into(I'm not sure what the actual unit size is supposed to be, thats just what I keep running into).

HolyCause: Forgot about having 17 destroyers...anyways though, that 90 points (in that same example) could buy 7 Scarabs....

Railguns: First, Destroyers come in squads of 3-5. Also, true, being wiped out completely screws over WBB, but a res orb won't save that. However, what I have personally done is have a Tomb Spider close enough so if the whole unit is wiped out, they can join another unit anywhere on the board (as long as the dead unit is within 12" of the spider, and assuming I use tomb spiders.)

How do Tomb Spyders move? As normal monstrous creatures, correct? If that is the case then keeping destroyers close enough may be tricky. So if they are within 12", the Spyder can bring them back and put them with another unit anywhere on the board? Sounds like a useful ability then. I've never faced spiders.

HolyCause wrote:Wait, could you clarify this? You say "and" in the first statement, but then revise it to "or" with the last one...

Sure. Get whatever you want. If you are going to seriously play necrons you will want to obtain 30 immortals and 15 destroyers. Period.

HolyCause wrote:60 shots at strength 5 compared to 45 shots at strength 6. The difference being that the former choice has twice as many wounds, costs only a wee bit more (840 vs. 750) and doesn't take up any potential places for Scarabs (you aren't using Wraiths, right? ) which are extremely useful depending on what you are facing. So assuming only 10 destroyers that's even a worse comparison.

I am not talking about using all 30 immortals and 15 destroyers in the same list. You are just going to want to have the models available so you can try a few variations that are 'competitive' for necrons.

HolyCause wrote:Not to mention that the immortals contribute more to Phase Out than the destroyers do. Granted the destroyers are less likely to be charged, but if that's a problem you're not doing something properly.

My 4th ed list (and for a small while 5th ed) included 30 immortals and 12 destroyers. I didn't use scarabs. I just fired 96 str5+ ap4 shots at bs4 at my opponent. If you were not mech, you didn't like it. Everyone is so they are not competitive anymore.

HolyCause wrote:I personally prefer Immortals simply because sticking them with a res orb is a lot more viable an option than destroyers (having a Lord that keeps up with them costs more and is practically useless for shooting).

Meh. I simply put max dice at the maximum range I can get.

HolyCause wrote:The only downside to Immortals from a Necron point of view is the model itself. It is ridiculously expensive (at my FLGS it's $18 for one, ouch) and ridiculously annoying to assemble (although converting warriors into immortals is relatively easy). Rumour has it than GW will release plastic immortals for 5th, though.

Both models are fairly expensive, even for gw...

Railguns wrote:How do Tomb Spyders move? As normal monstrous creatures, correct? If that is the case then keeping destroyers close enough may be tricky. So if they are within 12", the Spyder can bring them back and put them with another unit anywhere on the board? Sounds like a useful ability then. I've never faced spiders.

Yeah, Tomb Spiders move like Monstrous Creatures, so depending how much the destroyers move (though really with 36" range, you can keep them fairly far away from the fight) the Spiders will have trouble keeping up, although it all depends on deployment and how much your forces move around
Also, correct. If a unit of (destroyers) is completely wiped out, but are within 12" of a tomb spider, they can WBB to any (destroyers) anywhere on the battlefield (even if the other unit isn't near a spider)

Canonness Rory wrote:

Tacobake wrote:
No, Immortals are a great unit, and the Necron book is a good book, too. Especially considering how old it is.

I CAN'T.
STOP.
LAUGHING.

Yeah,sadly this kid hasn't heard of 5th edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

imweasel wrote:It doesn't matter what you get next.

You will want 30 immortals and 15 destroyers at your disposal.

Find a good deal and take either one.

I'd rather actually buy a GT winning army,then Necrons who are lowest tier army going.

Thanks Guys.

With lord+gear, 20 warriors, 3 destroyers and 5 scarabs ... another possibilty for me (when moving from 750points to 1000points) would be not to have either destroyers or immortals - and go for a monolith.

What's your feelings on this? (too soon on points? problems with phase out? Would love to hear your opinions)

Fletch

Farmer wrote:

I'd rather actually buy a GT winning army,then Necrons who are lowest tier army going.

Just trying to answer the OP's post munchkin. No need to make this personal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fletcher wrote:Thanks Guys.

With lord+gear, 20 warriors, 3 destroyers and 5 scarabs ... another possibilty for me (when moving from 750points to 1000points) would be not to have either destroyers or immortals - and go for a monolith.

What's your feelings on this? (too soon on points? problems with phase out? Would love to hear your opinions)

Fletch

At 1k, you could try:

Lord w/orb
2x10 warriors
2x5 destroyers

or
Lord w/orb
2x10 warriors
2x3 destroyers
3x1 hvy destroyers

Necrons don't work well at 2k in 5E and are even worse at lower point totals.

Good Luck!

You also run into the problem of being That Guy who took 1 or more Monoliths at less than 1000.

I know what you're saying Railguns - and I have read and appreciated the idea of people just going for massive machines at low points .... but for our proposed 1000point army - the Tyranid guy is going to have a Carnoflex (forgive probable spelling mistake there) - which is 220 points. A monolith is 235(ish) - so pretty similar.

Is it that wrong?

Is it going to help? I guess you are looking at a monolith or ... 4 more destroyers and a few scarabs ..... (or 8ish immortals).

imweasel wrote:

Farmer wrote:

I'd rather actually buy a GT winning army,then Necrons who are lowest tier army going.

Just trying to answer the OP's post munchkin. No need to make this personal.

I didn't,no need to get so defensive buddy,what i was trying to say before you curved into a ball was i would rather flog cash on a army that has a slight chance of winning then to build are army that you've robbed a bank for and then to find out it doesn't work,don't get me wrong i play crons but they aren't what they used to be.

Farmer wrote:I'd rather actually buy a GT winning army,then Necrons who are lowest tier army going.

Hint: Not nearly everyone wants to have the "always wins games and tournaments" army.

For the people who, as hard as it is to believe, like the race and/or still play it in 5th, they want to know how good immortals are (in comparison to destroyers/monoliths/others) instead of how good the army is at GTs...

And when discussing never forget the gauss rule.. no matter how tough your armor is I always have a chance for at least a glancing hit! hey the more necron players there are the more wins I'm assured so yea sure everyone play necrons and tau and the world will be ok lol

You should have about 10 immortals, for this they can protect the Necron Lord pretty well. And the number of shots, you can take out a phoenix lord if your lucky.

Well...Firstly take the Monotith. Hell take 2 at 1000pts if you can. I'd say 3 but you prolly cant afford that.

And yeah immortals are ok on paper I've never fought them but I know for a fact that you do not want too many destroyers. Last time I played them I brought an infiltrating squad of chosen with 4 Meltas and annihilated them. That squad wouldn't have done much to immortals (but I woulda just brought plasmas instead to be fair ).

If you're playing crons I'd suggest just getting more warriors (squads of 10) as I only ever beat them in any game with phase out (last time it took until my 3rd shooting phase with my zerker army and the Monolith hadn't even arrived yet) and this is only avoided by bringing lotsa models. Destroyers are stronger, given, but they won't be anywhere as useful to the all important phase out count which, honestly, is the main thing for 'crons.

Personally I prefer destroyers, as the speed can make a huge difference and, more importantly they can penetrate a rhino/raider. It doesn't sound as important but it really can make a difference.

btw against t4 or higher destroyers will kill more models for approximately equal points. Against t3 immortals win.

One thing to remember with destroyers is that they can be used to turbo boost and contest an objective, I have done that and gotten a lucky (game over) roll to win or draw objective games.

You should get some flayed ones, a huge bulk of pariahs, because they don't have WBB or Regenerative. For Immortals, they have pretty good toughness and armour save. be careful with the pariahs, they get wiped easy, but they've got warscythes. Good thing that.

How is not having WBB (regenerative is not a rule) a benefit? Pariahs are slow, with 1 attack each. You may as well just get immortals instead and benefit from wbb.

Destroyers have great mobility and fire power, however they are still 50 pts models with only 1 wound and most armies have something that can range them. I say drop the Destroyers go heavy on Immortals and make them resilient as all hell. Put them in formation with an orb, a spyder, and a monolith. Your opponent will have to deal with more T5 models that will get their WBB NO MATTER WHAT. If a squad gets wiped they stand up with the other squad, if you get a bad roll or need to get them out of combat use the power matrix and re-roll the WBBs. You won't die and more importantly, your opponent will hate you.

Lots of scarabs with disruption fields are great for mobility and anti-tank, and are a great replacement for destroyers.