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As most people around here have already seen the new Space Wolves codex, I thought it might be time to start a thread about competitive builds of the Space Wolves. These are the three builds that striked me as possibly competitive:

Wolf Guard Terminator spam.
With Logan Grimnar now making Wolf Guard count as scoring, it has become possible to field an entire army of Wolf Guard Terminators. Disadvantages of this build will surely be the hefty price tag of Logan Grimnar, making this build better in higher point games (like 'Ard Boyz). I personally would field the army like this: Logan Grimnar + some Rune Priests in Terminator Armour + some big units of Wolf Guard Terminators (10x Wolf Guard Terminator, 2x Cyclone Missile Launcher, 2x Chainfist).

Drop Pod Assault (MEq spam).
The Grey Hunters are obviously one of the strongest units in the codex. This build focusses on 10 man Grey Hunter units armed with 2 Meltaguns and Mark of the Wulfen and/or a Powerfist in Drop Pods. Supportive long range fire can be given by full Long Fang Packs with 5 Missile Launchers in each pack. They too will select Drop Pods as transports, though they won't be arriving in them. This way, the army will be able to be on the board entirely in the first turn, having the close ranged units (Grey Hunters) up close immediately, while the Long Fangs get to support them with anti-vehicle or anti-infantry fire (depending on Missile Launcher mode).

Mechanized.
We all know how succesful mechanized armies are in 5th Edition, and the Space Wolves have great options to form a mechanized army as well. Grey Hunter units in Rhino's will probably form the core of this build, supported by some longer ranged anti-vehicle fire (in the form of Typhoon Land Speeders).


Are there more competitive builds for the Space Wolves and are the above three builds as competitive as I think they are? I'm especially excited about the Drop Pod Assault army, as they will bring a decent amount of MEq to the table which will be difficult to deal with for almost any army. What does Dakka think of the competitiveness of the new Space Wolves codex?

The problem with the Terminator spam list are the points. It's a spendy list compared to how much fire it puts out. It's also going to have trouble at range against the some of the more shootier armies.

The Drop Pod Assault is the direction that I'm thinking of going. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with the Long Fangs as my heavy support mainstay unit. While they can put out more shots per point at range than anything else in that price range, they lack survivability. I'd rather have armor than the Fangs. Although joining Logan with them to get Relentless might make them more worthwhile, not to mention even pricier.

I think we're also going to see a rash of 4 Rune Priest lists. If you're really evil, you won't let anyone wanting to do this proxy it. They have to have the correct models. Let them learn the hard way.

My current idea is a mix of drop and mech.

2 drop pods of Grey Hunters
1 drop pod dread (assault cannon h/flamer)
1 unit of 5-6 WG in Crusader
1 5 man unit Grey Hunter in razorback
2 Vindicators
1 foot slogging lone wolf (walks/runs) behind crusader

The idea is to be uber killy at 24" The Pods will give me time to advance, especially if the other guy pulls the all in reserve trick to avoid pods. Letting my Crusader and vindicators get 12 - 24" of free movement will be a very bad idea.

yes the GW Termies can be made expensive, but a base one [Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon] is 33 points and a combi-bolter makes them 38 points, yes you pay alot for logan, but a base drop pod GW pack is about 225+Special weapons each.

The most powerful list will just be 3 Squads of Wolf riders , Lone Wolfs, and greyhunter mechanized spam

Played and kibitzed some space wolf games this weekend. At 1750, I think you have to throw out a WG based list.

275 is just too much to pay for an IC at 1750. Its just a rule of thumb for me. You could certainly try it and make it work, but I think logan is just too pricey for anything under 2k. But, at 2k, I think he is probably what I would take almost every time.

We played with a hybrid drop pod list at first, and it performed respectably against mech IG. Some features that worked well. 2x units of long fangs with max missiles were clutch. They are just a core element of space wolf armies. Just cheap enough to be worth their fragility and their dawn of war vulnerability. In a drop pod army they can also be a source for empty drop pods, which is vital in very competitive play. Wolf guard units that were a combination of serious CC specialist and combi-melta delivery system. Being able to be 'almost as good as sternguard' on the drop, and then 'almost as good as assault terminators' afterwards was very nice. Playing with this unit composition can push you closer to sternguard or closer to assault terminators, that kind of customizability is very awesome. Double melta grey hunters with Mark of Wulfen were also awesome. We took a rune priest with jaws and living lightning. Living lighting was just awesome. Unlimited range autocannon shots were very frustrating for mech opponents. We used wolf scouts for this build as well, and they were just kinda bland. They did okay-ish, and were a great sub-100 point unit to add once we were out of points.

The other list at 1750 that I am quite interested in is a harald deathwolf great company... Something like this.

Canis wolfborn + 2 fenrisian wolves

10x grey hunters 2x meltaguns mark of the wulfen, rhino
10x grey hunters 2x meltaguns, mark of the wulfen, rhino
10x fenrisian wolves
10x fenrisian wolves
10x fenrisian wolves

3x thunderwolf cavalry 1x storm shield, 1x power fist
3x thunderwolf cavalry 1x storm shield, 1x power fist
3x thunderwolf cavalry 1x storm shield, 1x power fist

6x long fangs 5x missiles
6x long fangs 5x missiles


I'm sure there is some kind of land raider based army that works, but I haven't really been looking at it too closely yet. they have almost the same access to land raiders as ultramarines, and arguably more goodies to load them up with. The drop pod and wolf armies just jumped out at me first as something competitive.

I would disagree on the notion that Grimnar isn't worth it at 1,750. In terms of competitive play, my list looks something like this:

Grimnar
Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning & Tempest's Wrath
5 Wolf Guard terms w/ Cyclone, SS, SS, WC, WC, Frst B, CF, pod

10 GH, 2 melta, MoW, wolf standard, pod
10 GH, 2 melta, MoW, wolf standard, pod
10 GH, 2 melta, MoW, wolf standard, pod

6 Longfangs w/ 2 ML, 3 MM, pod

4 Thunderwolves w/ SS, boltgun, TH


Basically, grimnar goes in pod w/ the longfangs along with a wolf guard term with the cyclone and stormshield. the other 4 wolf guard pod as close as possible to the long fang pod. this way, since grimnar's relentless-gifting ability starts at the beginning of the turn and lasts till the end of it, the longfangs keep relentless and are deployed on one side of the pod. grimnar comes out on the opposite side and i'll try my damnedest to get the wolf guard pod to a range where the wolf guard will be w/in 2" of grimnar, thus he auto joins them.

I think that grey huntr wolf standards are worth mentioning here: from a cursory glance it appears that it allows the GH's to reroll all attack dice rolls of 1 during a single assault phase for 10 points. big deal. The actual rules state that during a single assault phase, the squad rerolls ALL results of a 1. This is to hit, to wound, to armour pen, to vehicle damage, and to armour saves. For 10 points, pretty damned useful.

The Thunderwolves act as mini nob bikers, keeping to cover and slamming into the enemy lines turn 1 or 2 quickly since they're cavalry, and they can distribute wounds due to their wargear quite nicely. Also, str. 10 thunderhammers are nothing sto scoff at either...

My thoughts.

One of the top competitive players in my area has taken up Space Wolves, here is his initial 1500 point list:

Logan Grimnar

Rune Preist w/ Jaws, Lightning

6 Wolf Guard Terminators

2x Lone Wolf w/ Terminator Armor, Chainfist, Storm Shield

2x 5-man Grey Hunters w/ Meltagun

5-man Long Fangs w/ 4 ML

Land Raider Crusader


Granted this list was made partly to have less models to paint for an upcoming tournament, but last round of playtesting netted a win in Kill Point against a shooty SM army (me), Draw against an IG army w/ 6+ Chimeras, Devildog, 2 Hydras, Medusa, LR Demolisher, and win against a Battlewagon - Nob heavy list.

Logan is such a huge force multiplier, especially when you make a killy unit like Terminators Scoring. He is very conservative with the Grey Hunters and Long Fangs, but every thing else is played rather aggressively. Lone Wolves are great at being a distraction and tar pitting units.

Also, the SW elite choices are all really good. Making WG troops really opens up some posibilities. I could see taking three 5-man scout squads with meltabombs, meltagun, and maybe a WG with a powerfist and combi-melta. They're not dirt cheap, but Tau and IG will hate seeing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could also see taking 3 dread in pods. Or even 3 Iron Priests with TWC and Cyberwolves.

My initial thought for an 1850 list is a hybrid mech/drop list.

WL on Thunderwolf w/ frost axe, belt
Rune Priest w/ LL, a utility power based on metagame
Dread w/ HFlamer in Pod
8 Grey Hunters w/ 1 melta, MoW, banner, in pod
8 Grey Hunters w/ 1 melta, MoW, banner, in pod
5 Grey Hunters w/ 1 plasma in Razorback
5 Grey Hunters w/ 1 plasma in Razorback
5 TW Cav (TH, 3SS, 2 MB)
4 Long Fangs (3 missiles) in Razorback
4 Long Fangs (3 missiles) in Razorback

Wolf Guard split up into the pods, so there's one pod w/ rune priest, WG w/ combi-melta/PF, MoW guy, Banner, and a meltagun. One pod w/ MoW, Banner, Melta, 2 powerfists, a combi-flamer and a combi-melta.

Initial drop can flex, or even be empty pods if I want to start everyone on the table.

4 stock razorbacks provide some decent ranged anti-infantry fire cheap, and 6 missiles from the Long Fangs should work out ok. Two small WG squads are to camp objectives, and the Wolf Cav+Lord is there to take care of big stuff.

No games with this at all, just a concept.

I am not a huge fan of Marines in Pods, IG can punish them to easily. Here is what I imagine is a decent 1850 or 2000 point competitive list, based on what I have seen so far.

-HQ-

Logan or Ragnar and Wolf Priest

Rune Priest w/ Jaws, Lightning

Rune Priest w/ Lightning, Tempest

-Elites-

6 to 8 WG Terminators

2x Lone Wolfs w/ TDA, Storm Shield, Chainfist

-Troops-

2x or 3x 10-man Grey Hunter Squads w/ 2x MG, PF in Rhinos

-Heavy-

Land Raider Crusader

2x 5-man Long Fang Squads w/ 4 ML

Rune Priests can sit with the Long Fangs or Ride in the Crusader. Logan can make the terminators Troops, or Ragnar and a Wolf Priest turn them into a CC monsters. Long Fangs are an excellent and cheap stand off and harrass unit (they primarily stun vehicles to protect the advance). Lone Wolfs just run at the enemy and absorb a ton of firepower, and if they make it within range, tear things up themselves.

I don't like putting the priests with the MLs, as the range on Jaws isn't complimentary. If you have a lot of nid armies in your area, maybe, but otherwise, I don't think that's a good way to use them.

What is 'DD' for the lone wolves? Is that 'SS' - in which case, you've given them a combi-flamer and SS, and no CC weapon?

No rhinos for the meltagun squads? Or just omitted?

I dunno, I don't like WG Termies - they're too expensive if you upgrade them, and I'm not horribly impressed with them if you don't. Maybe with the special-character brigade they're better, but I'd much rather run the big wolf-cav unit than the WG.

I don't like putting the priests with the MLs, as the range on Jaws isn't complimentary. If you have a lot of nid armies in your area, maybe, but otherwise, I don't think that's a good way to use them.

It depends on what you are facing, the armies that Jaws are particularly good at need to cross the distance anyways meaning you are counter charging more then being aggressive yourself.

I made a mistake, as I think in the context of my list, only one Jaws is necessary. It's all about the D6 autocannon shots you add to a unit of Long Fangs that can split fire from you.

What is 'DD' for the lone wolves? Is that 'SS' - in which case, you've given them a combi-flamer and SS, and no CC weapon?

I will clarify. Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chainfist

No rhinos for the meltagun squads? Or just omitted?

Just omitted.

I will correct my list.

I dunno, I don't like WG Termies - they're too expensive if you upgrade them, and I'm not horribly impressed with them if you don't. Maybe with the special-character brigade they're better, but I'd much rather run the big wolf-cav unit than the WG.

Wolf Cav can be just as if not more expensive (because you will want at least one Storm Shield in there). There are a lot of good cost effective combinations with the Terminators. Most WG Terminators include models such as Storm Shield - Wolf Claw, Combi-Melta - Wolf Claw, and Chain-fist - Storm Bolter. I have seen an Assault Cannon in there as well, especially in Logan lead armies that confer Tank Hunters to the thing.

I'm trying to think of a way to have Ragnar jumping out of an LRC with some GH buddies. Ragnar's 12" radius granting Furious Charge is a no brainer with an LRC's bigger foot print. Bikers and TWC can keep up with the raiders and be screened by the LRC, or Drop Pods can jump on in.

Another idea I've had is the TWC based list.

Here's my attempt, and still to remain Khorne fluffy.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/261196.page

Mechanized w/ Thunderwolf riders.

Mechanized w/ Thunderwolf riders.

2x Rune Priest in Termi armor Lightning/Hurricane/Jaws

2x GH in rhino, dual flamer
2x Inq Stormtrooper in razorbacks (bought off of Long Fangs), dual melta

3x max Missile Fangs

Wolves for free wounds for foot Rune Priests

And then pick your poison: Speeders, Twolf Cav, Lone Wolves

Greyhunters are such a incredible troop choice mechanized that really most armies are going to have trouble with them.

So my vote really goes to Mechanized w/ Thunderwolves as you can gain easily cover saves behind the rhinos with thunderwolves and 2nd turn be in hand to hand most anywhere on the board with a Fleet and 12 inch charge.


Armies that take and sink huge points into HQs are not going to be as efficient as those that spame the most cost efficients.

Greyhunters in rhinos w/ 2 meltas or plasmas MOW and Banner

and Thunder Wolves.

Oh For Reference

3 Squads of Mechanized Rhino Greyhunters w/ 2 meltas , Mark of Wulfen and Banner 660

and

2 Squads of 5 Thunderwolves w/ 2 Thunderhammers 560


1220 points


Throw in whatever it doesnt matter.

Shep was 100% correct!! (The way I'm agreeing with your posts shep it just needs to have *EzeKK agrees with this* after each post lol )

Drop Pod wolves are OKAY but Logan is for 2k. You can run an Army of the Great Wolf (Logan WG army) effectivly at lower. It is expensive as a mother %$*#$*.

Wolves are best run with Wolves and using RP's and using their damn, DAMN nice TWC and FA Puppies.

Vanilla esk builds of every-kind are not meant for these guys.

They are pesudo-chaos. Imagine chaos that can't take cult marines, has sweet sorcerers, and Juggernaughts and Chaos Hounds from Codex: Chaos Daemons. This is space wolves.

Terminator Spam IMHO is best done by Deathwing. If you want all terminators go with the wing, if you want a mix Army of the Great Wolf is good.

IMHO Never go Mech + DP. It is to messy and it seems weak, throw 1/4 of your army at them now, 1/4 whenever, 1/4 is sitting back, and 1/4 rushes them. Uhhhhgggghhhh. No.

Wolves also get the incredible point cost efficient Predators and Landspeeders which seem to go underused in wolf lists I have been seeing.


2 Squads of Thunderwolves and Squad of Multimelta Landspeeders w/ H. Flamers is pretty sweet.


Canis Wolfborn is a Fantastic Character for his points and he gives an ability that allows you to take great cheap fodder.


Over all I see Mechanized Canis Wolfborn lists like Shep Posted doing Best.


The ability to screen your thunderwolves which are huge targets with your Rhinos, Take Beasts in hordes to tie up units.

I really like Glass Hammer iron priests with 4 Wolves as well.

Wolf Scouts to come in behind units.


Overall the whole army is point cost efficient , numerous models , excellent at hand to hand.


edit:


Wolfguard you should see more people taking base wolfguard without Term ARmour their cheap for 18 points but people want to make them ungodly expensive.


Lists that use Logan need to remember they can have a ton of wolfguard but only a small number with Term Armour . That's where its mixed up at people wnat ot make these huge "wolfguard" armies , but its really expensive to do so. It isnt expensive though to just put out squads of wolf guard with cheap options on them.


Theres several things that are "cheap" for Wolfguard ; Combiweapons, Powerweapons, Powerfists.

It is an interesting shift with how mech-friendly 5th ed is that the SW codex can do quite well with significant foot elements.

Fenrisian Wolves provide a source of cheap wounds for ICs and are quite nasty against many non-assault units, Long Fangs are *(gasp)* an effective Devastator-esque unit and Twolf Cav are dead 'ard, killy, and fast enough not to require the speed/protection of the usual Assault transport delivery system.

Yeah Mechanized lists with Canis is what i really see coming out on top versus the whole "Lets take 4 250 point ubercharacters crap".


You get 4 HQs , the two i see the best are Rune Priests and Chaplains.


Chaplains are especially bad ass simply because they have access to a ton of wargear ( I think they get the 45 point thunderwolf option).


Which basically makes them a cheap as hell combat monster for 145 points.

STR5 powerweapon or rending plus all the other stuff and additional attack etc..

Hollismason wrote:
Chaplains are especially bad ass simply because they have access to a ton of wargear ( I think they get the 45 point thunderwolf option).


Which basically makes them a cheap as hell combat monster for 145 points.

STR5 powerweapon or rending plus all the other stuff and additional attack etc..

no option for TW for Wolf Priests, only wolf lords and battle leaders. i really wish you could take them for the rest though.

I would put Logan with Long Fangs loaded up with a meltagun for the leader and mulitimeltas for the others and pod them in. Logan gives their squad relentless so they can fire right on the disembark, while he also makes your wolf guard scoring units. All that with Ld10, Saga of Majesty AND 5 can-be powerfist attacks base, well worth the 275 points, and for me a must have for a drop pod list.

I really want to try out an exclusively shooty list using:

Logan, units of 5 WG with 1 CML Termie, long fangs with max ML's, and a priest with lightning.

With Logan's tank hunters and relentless it should do okay.

Dont have my book with me so couldnt remember.

sourclams wrote:2x Rune Priest in Termi armor Lightning/Hurricane/Jaws

2x GH in rhino, dual flamer
2x Inq Stormtrooper in razorbacks (bought off of Long Fangs), dual melta

3x max Missile Fangs

Wolves for free wounds for foot Rune Priests

And then pick your poison: Speeders, Twolf Cav, Lone Wolves

This is a good, but stormtroopers must start outside razorbacks via dedicated transport rule.

Can you play a HQ from DH and x3 HQ's from Wolves codex?

Slightly off-topic.

Grey hunters can have basically 6 upgrades -
2 specials
1 plasma pistol
1 MotW
1 Powerweapon or fist
1 Wolf Totem

Now, I'm not saying that all 6 upgrades are worth taking - I think the 2 special, MotW, and Totem are worth having, not sure about the PF/PW and PP. But, if you would take all 6, do you lump them into as few models as possible, or as many, or something in between? Such as:

1 - special and totem
1 - special and MotW
1 - PP and PW/PF
7 - standard GHs

or

2 - special
1 - totem
1 - MotW
1 - PP
1 - PW/PF
4 - bolters

And another option is like the first, but with 5 bolters and the PP and PF/PW on different guys.

By the first, you have more ablative bolter guys. But, losing any of the 3 upgraded guys is pretty bad. By the second, you're going to have to put wounds on some of the upgraded guys sooner (less bolter guys), but losing any one of them isn't that devestating.

Thoughts?

I'd go without the CC upgrades, import a WG if you really want a PF/PW, and I'm generally not a fan of plasma pistols, as they cost as much as another body.

That said, I'd keep all four of the worthwhile ones on different guys. But my point there is that you end up with a better looking army, and appearance does count. The fewer generic bolter guys you have, the more interesting the squad looks as a whole. I think that game-wise, the pros and cons balance out. Wound allocation rules makes it much harder to prevent an important model taking a hit every now and then anyway.

Probably a mix of mech and drop-pods.

IMO Space Wolves are the only assaulty chapter that really benefits from the use of drop pods, due to counter-charge. That's really what makes it for them.


As with all lists, the magic numbers in drop pods are 1, 3, and 5.