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so i want to make a tyranid deepstike army and outflank and such to be able to own my oponent tacticaly throguh being flexible and not being able to get shot to much

my main consern is can you assult on the same turn you deep stike

so...
6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

flyrant 196pts
winged
toxin sacs
warp field
2 TL devourers
enhansed sences


3 lictors 240pts

3 carnifexi 540pts
2 barbed stranglers
regeneration
spore cysts
bonded exoskeleton


army total is 1456pts

so this list has atleast 44 points not sure what to put them in but
one thing im not sure on is can spore cysts count as victory points?

'Stealers are costing a lot of points for 6 models. I'd stick with scutters and feeder tendrils. I'd also add carapace armour seems they're in the open.

Considering your tyant is winged you'd want it in close combat as once its into range its wings would have less use. I would give it 2 scything talons. I would add another tyrant with dual twin-linked devourers.

If your fexs have barbed stranglers why they got enhanced senses? Means it will scatter 1" less. Acid maw for long range attack and flesh hooks? Your fexs are eating too much points will regen, bonded exoskeleton & reinforced chiten. As low ap weapons will go for them I would just leave most of that off.

Gargoyles are annoying. Don't expect them to last in combat though. But a large unit deep striking is asking for trouble, you scatter and cannot place all those models then its mishap table for you. Split into two smaller units.

Is it just me or is the a lack of synapse, and if I remember right carnifex's need synapse, I would recommend dropping the wings and walking him with the fex's, use the leftover points for some extra genestealers. 2 squads of stealers arn't gonna last long, granted the rest of the army has staying power but those are your only scoring units for objectives.

Maybe switch out 1 squad of stealers for as many gaunts as you can

'Fex's do need synapse, but they are fearless.

hmm good point i will us another hive tyrant so that should e easy
would you suggest tyrant guard? since i have 2 of those at my disposal

does the elite rule with carnifex's work at 115 points?
or does it have to be less?

yeah, it can be 115 points.
i'd pull the toxin sacs adn feeder tendrils off the 'steelers
run the tyrant with guard and talons, drop warp field.
drop the flesh hooks from the big guys, and maybe the regeneration.

break the gargolys in half. thirtytwo wont work as a deep strike unit, its way to big

I'll say it straight up. Stealer Shock sucks - Nidzilla is the best way to run nids, so you combine them and end up with a mediocre to sub par list. Yay?

God damnit... Edited your list.

Okay my critique still stands, how the hell is outflanking tactically secure? How will you "own" someone when you don't even know were the heck your own units will be?

Also 6 man squads are asking to die.

I say don't try to build a new nid list till January or run Nidzilla how everyone else is.

this army if mostly going to be subbed its more of a test thing that i wanted to try before the new codex came out
so all of these models are subbed by other models i already own

and i think that just because you dont know where your models are going to be is necisarly a bad thing
since i dont know how much knowledge will my opponent have and plus wat does nid zilla have 6 carnifexs 2 hive tyrants and genestealers this has just a coupl other things 4 carnifexs 1 hive tyrant and genesteelers with the edition of 3 lictors a couple anti tank spore mines (not counting on those too much thier just an extra 90 somthing points) this army seems quite sound and if you say gene steelers are gonna get killed in groups of 6 im fine with that as long as they can get thier assasination of any model.

my main plain is run carnifexs up the middle going towards the tanks shooting off barbed strangler wile having elite carnifexes for cover save of them selves.
my openent will most likely stay out of range of my carnifex's by moving out towards the sides that will allow my gene stealers to be extreamly close but as extra help after the tanks move away i focus my pheramone trail rerolls on the bio acid in a suisidal attempt to blow up his tanks once tanks are popped all my genesteelers would attack the troops inside
with an added bonus i have a flyrant as also anti tank deepstriking, and for any snipers or missle launch bull sht i would have my lictors to come in on any of the terrain to dissrupt and destroy those snipers, at the end of all this any remaining carnifexs and hive tyrant go around scaring everything that moves to the edges still leaveing attacks for my genesteelers. mulitple groups means different times to hellp.

sounds like a ok list but all over the place you should focus it on a type. the carnafex is a good idea 4 of them but i would keep the tyrant with wings and give it the twin liked devourers for anti infantry. decking out the stealers i think is a good idea that way they can get the for sure kill. and the fexes don't need synapse if i remember right. as for HQ brood lord FTW. and spore mines are easy kill points for them. no you can not assault when you deep strike. and no nidzilla dosent seem to work to well at my local it is always getting raped but nid swarm dose ok. i mean nidzilla is *oh that's getting close concentrate fire* but i think the list could use work but good luc having it work

My take on the list....

shinyhelmetman wrote:
6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

6 genesteelers 120pts
scuttlers
rending claws
feeder tendrils

Ok so you got what 5 outflanking genestealer squads? What happens when your opponent stays 18" off the board egde? Yeah you lose genestealers before they do anything. 5 flanking squads is a bad idea... use 2 max!

flyrant 151pts
winged
scything talons
toxin sacs
warp field
acid maw
toxic miasma
flesh hooks

A good unit but it would be better if it could shoot. Do plan on deep striking it? Since that is the theme of your list...

3 lictors 240pts

Lictors won't do much. They die too easily. 80pt support unit isn't worth it.

2 carnifexi 222pts
2sets of scything talons
toxin sacs
adrenal glands

CC fexes will die before they get to combat... at least to anyplayer that know half a sense of what they are doing...

2 carnifexi 310pts
2 barbed stranglers
regeneration

Why TL-BS? Drop the second gun and regenerate. Give them a venom cannon and enhanced senses to help cope with AV14 vehicles...

3 bio acid spore mines
3 bio acid spore mines
2 bio acid spore mines

Spore mines? Really? 3 KP that you probably to in hopes that they will pop a land raider or something... yeah drop them...

Overall I think it is a very weak list. A merit for trying but 5th ed style of Nidzilla is the only build that even works at all anymore...

ok so i do have to make some edits since i didnt know you can't assult when you deep strike so.
but thier is one problem with all your critisism you count them all seperatly
you did not assess them togeather.
but i will cahnge my hive tyrant back to its devourer combo.

It starting to take a better form you still have 119pts left over btw but I am sure it was you know that

I would seriously change one of the stranglers on each of the fexes to venom cannons. Also drop the regenerate and add enhanced senses and the extra wound upgrade.

You also need some WoN spinegaunts to help with capturing objectives. 8 should be enough to do that.

do spore cysts spore mines count as kill points when they die?

shinyhelmetman wrote:do spore cysts spore mines count as kill points when they die?

They don't but they are not worth it. Anything that can wund your own models w/o your opponent doing anything is not a good idea.

thiers one problem with the gaunts idea is that im maxed out on troops since im gooing to test this list tommorow
but i think the spore mines can be usful as a carnifex assult shield from my opponent

Just remember that they scatter... More randoness to an already random game

i think i can work with randomness it usually works in my favor
but other wise how does my list favor work for a randomly fun army. i wil be going up against 2 people instead of 1 for a free for all so im gonna be able to take out someone

For a fun game it is fine. With 2 opponents the flanking stealers should be able to get something

yep but also i want to try the effective ness on just one person since i think it sounds tacticaly strong.

Really love your stealers with extended carapace. It is usually more worthwhile than the scything talons. Bolter saves are just worth it.

Right now, the concept of lictors is cool but 240 points can be spent much better on other stuff. How about two elite fexes with talons and BS? Lictors are just too in between right now.

If you insist on lictors, lose the tendrils on the stealers and try to coordinate lictors with stealers and just save the points.

Run 2 or 3 units of stealers on-board with all your fexes. With stealers scuttling and fexes running, you force your opponent to make choices. That still leaves 2 units to outflank.

Think about single raveners. They are like one-bug wrecking crews that can assault from range. The downside is the kill points but your army looks like a "table them or else" style anyways.

ypur points are good but what do you mean cordinating with lictors please explain

Raveners? Wrecking Crews?

No just no... Maybe against a unit of guard but seriously a T4 5+ model is not a wrecking crew...

well today i used this list and it worked out ok everything but the lictors
i dont get it no matter what when they deepstrike they get the mishap table wats up with that?
other wise everything worked out just fine
i dont know what id replace them with

shinyhelmetman wrote:well today i used this list and it worked out ok everything but the lictors
i dont get it no matter what when they deepstrike they get the mishap table wats up with that?
other wise everything worked out just fine
i dont know what id replace them with

Unfortunately I think 5th edition botched the rules on the Lictors regarding the deepstrike mis-haps. I've usually played they land in the terrain, and scatter in terrain, and only mishap if they land on top of/too close to a model. But that's 'house hammer'

With a maximum 6 troops choices, and trying to use stealers, remember that you can scout 6" or outflank

Also, taking a squad out to increase squad size to 8 will help them last a little longer.

In 1500 points, I wouldn't take more than 2 lictors. Even if you're deepstriking/outflanking 4-6 units, on turn 2 about 1/2 should get in, then you can reroll 2 of them. that means you should have atleast 3 squads coming on, (4 if you've got 6 units in reserves)

Also, you can get gaunts with scuttlers to scout ahead 6" and provide your genestealers with cover. Technically you can start all your stealers (on standard deployment) 18" in, which means you only have 30" to the other table side. hopefully that will only be 18" from the edge of their lines. With a solid first turn you can be right at their door. Come turn 2, if you throw in some lictors and 2 squads of outflanking stealers, you could have an army boxed in on all sides with stealers ready to assault.

I must go for now, but I will append some things later.

-Fool Whip

Your 6 man squads won't "assassinate" anything. Maybe firewarriors on foot. Marines can beat them in CC or ATSKNF and then their buddies will bolter fire them down. Another point is that most of the time units are midfield and if you're lucky to find anything on the edges alone it's probably strong enough to be alone.

The other problem is that you're rolling a lot of reserves so it's coming in peicemeil. Peicemeil + small squads = small distractions. With carnifexes mainly attracting anti-tank fire, the 1-2 genestealers squads that come in will be on the receiving end of the rest of the anti-infantry fire that has been left over.

I would combine them together into 2 larger squads that are a bit more threatening. *(Note, if you are going to outflank them, try let your opponent onto the fact that you are, if you do some opponents will put such things as flamer squads on the sides and obliterate those squads that come in).

Fool Whip has other good points.

Don't ever let yourself think too much randomness is good. It's "entertaining" but against a player that knows what he's doing, it'll screw you over.

ok so i got a but lode of things to tell you
i used this list today and it raped the field against 2 other teams i never said id send my gene steelers to kill space marine squads thier thier to take the tanks out the only thing that i didnt anticipate is that these gene steelers cant hurt land raiders
that was my mistake
other wise hive tyrant did alot
all genesteelers were a bitch for my opponent since they kept running in to capture objective points
my carnifexs had a dropping setion of spore mines which made it hard for my opponent to kill them
the only thing unsuccesful were the lictors but the pheramone trail helped

bull crap you didnt rape sh*t you f*cking ganked me with the other player.

so he had 3 things out flank the side we were both located and he sends 2 squads ofter me he had a chance to stop a lanraider and its cargo from doing anything like ever but no he went foe my vindicator that didnt do anything and was out of range of anything. he won cuz he ganked me and while i went for equille damage he just went for me and he didnt win he lose as well as i did th a chaos space marine army
* posted by chapter master zer0

This is terrific! Internet fighting! I imagine both the last two posts as squeaky-voiced, pimply 14 year olds, squealing in rage.

hey just because im 14 doesnt mean im pimply faced!

Continuing on to more tactics....

Carnifex:

I'm not sure what the purpose is behind twin linked Barbed Stranglers, Regeneration, Spore Cysts, and Bonded Exoskeleton.

If you want to go with a Barbed Strangler, just use 1, and if you want to keep points cost down just add some scything talons and call it a day (That keeps the cost under 115 and you can use them as elites)

Regeneration is too expensive. Go for reinforced chitin for that extra wound. Bonded exoskeleton can help, but only if you have the extra points to spend.

Sport Cysts? Really? I am not sure what these did for you. You get to place a spore mine in base contact, which could accidentally wound your 'fex, and then if the enemy shoots the spore mine it will explode on your 'fex and possibly cause more wounds... The best you can hope for here is to lay a mine field on an objective. Otherwise they are too small to provide cover, and have the potential to wound your 'fex.

HQ:

Flyrant looks good, there's lots of room for variation on walking HT's as well.

Others:

Broodlords are fun, especially in a stealer list.

Warriors can be pretty effective, and they can provide cover to your Carnifex's and HT