nightbringger or Deceiver

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**deathscyth**

so i am asking what one would you use and in your opinion what are the benefits and disadvantages of both

**Che-Vito**

deathscyth wrote:so i am asking what one would you use and in your opinion what are the benefits and disadvantages of both

This would probably be better placed in "Tactics", "YMDC" is for discussions of rules and their meanings.

Cheers!

**Night Lords**

Deceiver. Less points, better abilities, still just as deadly.

**EzeKK**

Night Lords wrote:Deceiver. Less points, better abilities, still just as deadly.

Better choice of the 2. Neither. But whatever floats your boat.

**Night Lords**

I dont know, people say neither, but close combat is where a lot of armies have to be to beat Necrons (otherwise they all have feel no pain). Im scared as poop of running near a Ctan, as he demolishes everything he touches.

**Thor665**

I think C'Tan are of very much use in Necron builds. The advantages they bring are the potent hand to hand capability which can be well served by tying up fast assault units before they can begins stomping on your precious Warriors.

Nightbringer
Pros
Very intimidating to opponent.
Powerful in close combat
Powerful in close combat

Cons
Really, really, really expensive.
All he is good for is close combat.

Deceiver
Pros
More affordable then Nightbringer
Almost just as tough in hand to hand
Able to pin units
Able to leave combats basically at will
More useful in a variety of situations.

Cons
Not quite as tough as Nightbringer
Less cool of a model

I suggest Deceiver as the superlative choice. If nothing else the saved points will make a big difference in helping to pad out the rest of your army, and he's probably overall better in any case.

**oggers**

Good because I have him.

**Tonytiger89**

The night bringer, no contest

More awesomeness and i found it to be better on the table

**Gold tooth Jerry**

i think if you are playing another swarm army, nightbringer. Just cuase he drops pretty much pie templates around as an assault. Another thing i like is the ability to pop armor in the shooting phase.

The only thing i do not like is that his scyth isnt considered a power weapon. I mean its freakin huge. Also, let me remind you of the ability to push back units. IMO not getting into melee with necrons are the biggest way to win, and the nightbringer lets you make your foes think twice about exending out into an assault only to be decimated by the nightbringer

**Thor665**

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:The only thing i do not like is that his scyth isnt considered a power weapon. I mean its freakin huge.

Codex: Necrons pg. 27. Because they're monstrous creatures C'Tan close combat attacks ignore armor saves. The huge scythe does just fine slashing through armor.

**grankobot**

Most armies are fast enough to just run away from your 360 point monstrosity that moves only 6". A smart opponent will be happy that you've spent ~20 warriors worth of points on one model that doesn't contribute at all to your phase out number.

Plus they're not immune to instant death. Wah.

My choice is neither!

**Thor665**

grankobot wrote:Plus they're not immune to instant death. Wah.

Indeed, that's why you have to play smart and keep them out of LOS of Str 16+ weaponry.

**grankobot**

You know there are more ways to cause instant death than toughnessx2.

**Backfire**

But aren't those kind of instant deaths sort of deaths which ignore ability to ignore instant death...?

did that make any sense?

**Sharik**

Good thing that monstrous creatures are eternal warriors..

**karimabuseer**

Sharik wrote:Good thing that monstrous creatures are eternal warriors..

No they aren't. (Sorry if you were being sarcastic or mockng

). What would be amazingly funny is if one was turned into a spawn...by a csm sorcerer....in fact, lets find out.
The chaos sorcerer has a 1/18 chance of failing his psychic test. Give him a mark of tzeentch and he can cast it twice.
He's now needing sixes for it to work. Seeing as he's cast it twice, he has a 1/3 of a chance of it working. Do that over three turns=RESULT!
Though he'd probably get owned. And the deciever is better than the nightbringer btw.

**grankobot**

Backfire wrote:But aren't those kind of instant deaths sort of deaths which ignore ability to ignore instant death...?

did that make any sense?

Not necessarily. D-Cannons, force weapons, wraithguard, for example.

Even if C'tan were immune to instant death they still wouldn't be good though, because phase out is a dumb rule.

**Thor665**

grankobot wrote:Not necessarily. D-Cannons, force weapons, wraithguard, for example.

Actually they are immune to Wraithcannons (well, if a six is rolled they take an unsavable wound not instant death to be precise) Locally we always house ruled that to include D cannons as well, but looking at the rules I realized that was a house rule, so mea culpa for forgetting that.

Finally, if a Librarian manages to put a wound on a C'Tan then he deserves the chance to insta kill the blighter.

**EzeKK**

Honestly C'tan are as scary as wraithlords. They are quite easy to see and a bit of heavy fire makes them POOF!

C'Tan are best served as the paperweight for your necron codex which should be gathering dust on some random shelf with the rest of the Crons until they get a new codex.

**Brazila**

I found them to be worth the points just to keep people at bay, I park them at the front of my necron formation and even Nids are reluctant to assualt me for a round or two.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But as far as one or the other, I find them to be rather similar but the deciever is nearly as good and just as tough and the 60 points left lets you get an extra tomb spider or something. I take the deciever, and while I think both look awesome I like the deceiver model a tad better.

**scarab5**

I hate the nightbringer when I am playing orks. Basically only my nobs and warboss can get close to him.

He makes all my boys incapable of charging any unit he is near with his pushback ability on units strength 3 or less.

**extrenm(54)**

A year ago I would have said the Nightbringer was far better. But since that time I started trying out the deceiver and I changed my mind.

The main reason behind this is big D's ability to leave combat before blows are struck in your opponents assult phase. This makes him much more flexible and with leaving combat 2D6, and then moving and assulting in your turn, Big D can really fly around the table, and get where you need him to be really fast.

This also means that he will never die in assault unless you want him to. Whereas the nighbringer, as good as he is, can be overwhelmed and killed.

**Bascilica**

I've always seen the Deciever do better on field. The Nightbringer's biggest feature is its model.

**Black Blow Fly**

I think NB is better in 5th edition.

G

**Deceiver**

You better all listen to this because it's coming from the Deceiver here ^.^ My cousin is my regular opponent and he play necrons while I play guard. Both of them slaughter my infantry and tanks alike when either manages to float too close. The moral effects the Deceiver has arn't much to worry me. Most armies that have problems with low moral have ways to counter it. I hold an officer back to use the 'get back in the fight' order. As a guard player I find heavy weapons at a nice distance work well to take them down. The Deceiver always goes down faster than the Nightbringer. In actual play it's the 'Bringer' that hurts most i've found. Especially when we've twisted the rules to allow him to field both =p (I got slaughtered that battle BTW) I'd go for the Deceiver when theres low points or against armies like guard which struggle with moral. The 'Bringer will serve you better though but he's expensive so should be reserved for higher end point games. We play 5000 points so it's never been an issue for us. The last time we played a 1500 though, for him to get a decent ammount of warriors he had to go for the Deceiver.

**Iboshi2**

Thor665 wrote:Finally, if a Librarian manages to put a wound on a C'Tan then he deserves the chance to insta kill the blighter.

Mephiston and the Khorne Herald both giggle at the C'Tan point costs.

**Iago**

I am a fan of the deceiver. His abilities are better used at a competititve level.

**someguy55**

nightbringer kicks ass

**O'shovah**

someguy55 wrote:nightbringer kicks ass

Nightbringer meet skulltaker on chariot.

Nightbringer attacks:
2.5 hits
1.833333333333333333 etc unsavable wounds.
2 wounds left

Skulltaker attacks:
3 hits
1.5 rends
75% chance of instant death.

Skulltaker goes first.

Whether charging or being chaged he should kill Skulltaker or the deciever while costing under half of the nightbringers cost.

**someguy55**

i dont have a clue what ur on about but he still kicks ass