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Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Legion of the Damned Marines (metal) will be released by January 2010.

How would you use them on the battle field, and it what kind of SM army?

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ca
Ferocious Blood Claw




London, ON

Depending on cost, and if they are plastic or metal, and how many per box, they may turn into some salamanders.

We are the wolf that stalks, The stars in the sky And swallows the star-fire
We hide amongst the night, when light is gone the Light is within us
We run the ruin of Fire, in the darkness Foes burn in our passing
~Battle Litany of the Spacewolves 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





I think 'count as' for the whole army using the mini's would be preferable than to use the Legion of the Damned unit.

____________

To be fair, the only thing that the Legion does well is this:

Small sized squad with Multi-Melta/flamer. Pin-point DSing, with the ability to shoot the MM or flamer at targets of oppurtunity, past turn 1 and only worth 1 kp.

Now.

IMO, i'd rather get a Dreadnought, with hvy flamer, in pod. It's cheaper, immune to small arms on front and side, and can have a better flamer while still keeping the MM and able to shoot both when it lands.

The difference: If there are no other pods, this guy comes in turn 1, which can be good or bad. In addition, it's 2 kp instead of just 1, but both are pretty durable.

You may say: LOOK 3++!!!!!, but hell, they are still just a couple MEQs, in small arms range, they will die just as well to hvy bolters, bolters, lasguns as normal marines.

I think GW put as much thought into them as the Chaos Spawns IMO.

Can they do well? Yes.
Are they cost efficient? No.
Their advantages are outdone by other options which are cheaper, more survivable in that it's either AV, better armor, or more bodies, and more flexible than they are.

It's almost a contradictory unit.

They have a WS5 unit leader, but doesn't really get into combat that efficiently, and prob. doesn't want to be in combat after paying a mind-blowingly expensive hvy AND/OR special weapon.
They are essentially a suicide unit, hoping to make the most out of their hvy/special weapons when they come in.

Other options instead of LoTD (when a pod is considered):
-Command Squad.
-Dread.
-IronClad.
-Sternguard.
-Tactical squad.
-Tactical Terminators.

/shrug, at the end of the day, go with what you think is best/cool.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

I don't think they are necessarily a bad unit.

For around 200 points you can get a MM on a squad that can deepstrike accurately and fire. Unlike a Dreadnought in a Drop Pod, they can never be stunned oor shaken. In combat, they have just about the same survivability that Thunderhammer Terminators get.

They are slow and expensive, but as a distractionary unit that can always be firing, I think they can be useful. They just won't be the first thing I stick in a list.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





As much as a dread can get stunned, the LoTD could get their hvy weapon sniped early due to wound allocation early on.

Their cost = low model count.
Their durability is only that of an MEQ, so it's not hard to cause a fair number of wounds, esp. if they are dsing close to the enemy.

They can be a distractionary unit only if there are other distractionary units as well.

As to combat, again, they are no better or worse to combat 'small arms' as regular Marines, which works against them, having a inv save is only good if you can actually deal damage in combat or tarpit well enough, in addition to the enemy having lots of low str, power weapon attacks.

LoTD prob. don't have the luxury for a fist, don't hit that hard, and don't tarpit well enough due to the low model count (unless it's not a combat focused unit that just charged them).

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







At roughly 10points more (per model) Assault Terminators have a 2+/3+ save and a thunder hammer or 2+/5+ and a pair of lightning claws.

Heck for for 5points more (per model) you could take Vanguard Vets with a storm shield. (For a total 15pts more they could be zooming round on jump packs)

I just don't see the point of LoTD they're missing something ... an extra wound, feel no pain or something just to give them an edge over the rest of the army
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Lol, if they had an extra wound they'd be the OLD Thousand Sons.

I thought they would get something akin to Veil of Tears due to their shadowy nature....instead they get 3++s so that Grey Knight with a psycannon or incinerator can whoop their asses...

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







Yep Sanctjud, that would have made sense.

Every way i look at them they are a wast of points. Who else spends 30pts on a heavy flamer? its 5pts for a terminator. How about 30pts for a multi-melta? If i want a multimelta that can move and shoot i take attack bikes. With 2 wounds each,T4(5) and 3+ save they'll last just as long as the LoTD will and with Turbo boosters they can quickly redeploy.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Yea, for one squad of Legionnaires at around 200 points is roughly:

Dread, MM, Hvy Flamer, Pod.
AND
A MM Attack Bike.

Both are very cost effective for what you get.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in us
Boosting Ultramarine Biker



Saco, ME

You're thinking too narrow here, considering only the multimelta route.
Slap a plasma cannon and a plasmagun on a larger squad, and they become a nice TEQ-killer unit. Relentless, so they can fire the plasma when they arrive, plus a blast of bolter shots. The Relentless is what really makes these guys shine.
Then, when the TEQ unit (or other hard CC-dedicated unit) hits them, they can stick around for a good long while with that 3+ Invulnerable save. It's a great tarpit unit after the initial salvo of fire. Charge them into a Dread, Kans, or other big basher and you can tie it up for the whole game if you roll well.

Yes, plasma is risky on a unit this expensive, but for the cool-factor, it's a risk you should consider taking.

Also look at the heavy bolter for this unit. You can arrive, and fire out a lot of anti-infantry shots every turn. March toward the enemy, firing everything every turn.

 
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







TheRhino wrote:You're thinking too narrow here, considering only the multimelta route.
Slap a plasma cannon and a plasmagun on a larger squad, and they become a nice TEQ-killer unit. Relentless, so they can fire the plasma when they arrive, plus a blast of bolter shots. The Relentless is what really makes these guys shine.
Then, when the TEQ unit (or other hard CC-dedicated unit) hits them, they can stick around for a good long while with that 3+ Invulnerable save. It's a great tarpit unit after the initial salvo of fire. Charge them into a Dread, Kans, or other big basher and you can tie it up for the whole game if you roll well.

Yes, plasma is risky on a unit this expensive, but for the cool-factor, it's a risk you should consider taking.

Also look at the heavy bolter for this unit. You can arrive, and fire out a lot of anti-infantry shots every turn. March toward the enemy, firing everything every turn.
Right you can march slowly and shoot... thats worth 30pts per model ... Or you can take a ten man tactical squad with a plasma Cannon and combat squad (175pts).... Hell you could even buy them a drop pod. First turn it comes in they combat squad half run into a building with plasma cannon the other half get ready to charge the enemy ...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/19 18:44:51


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





@TheRhino:

Like Tri was pointing out, it’s a cost effective issue that the LoTD fail at.

A larger squad? How large?
Anything between 5 and 10 is of very little utility to the unit.
10 is crazy expensive, you are pushing the cost of 2 tactical squads in rides at that point. So they get to move and shoot, with hvy weapons set up in the deployment zone, they should have the reach to hit most things they need to hit.

Relentless is cool, but not when it’s a huge price-tag with questionably costed weapons and other ‘bonuses’ to the unit.

Generally combat dedicated units will have a delivery system that gets around having to actually charge these guys.
And should they get into combat…..how many guys are we talking about again?

Yes, they ‘can’ work as tarpits for power weapon wielding enemies…but that’s dependent on the opponent taking the bait and/or wasting the unit to kill them.

Now, they can do well if you dedicate a counter-assault unit. If you don’t then you’ve given the terminators a 2 round assault, something they actually want.
If you have a dedicated counter-assault unit, that’s just more points to make them ‘work’?

So that’s 200 points into a bait unit…I don’t know about that….then another 230 for say 10 assault marines….430 points right there. For dodgy hammer and anvil.

In addition, don’t forget, when you come in and open fire, you are in a wonderful formation for stuff like Frag Missiles, Frag Grenade, Flamers, Incinerators, Havoc Launchers, and the like.
If one runs them to get out of formation, they waste their only advantage.

/shrug, maybe even a Venerable Dread could work a bit better as a tarpitter…or an Iconclad and still be cheaper.
If you don’t like that, maybe a Command Squad with storm shields and melta guns in a pod….you’ll get around the MEQ status with some FNP thrown in there….and more meltas than the LoTD can get.
Or fork out the last 20-30 points for Ass Termies in a raider.

/shrug.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in us
Boosting Ultramarine Biker



Saco, ME

Tri wrote:Right you can march slowly and shoot... thats worth 30pts per model ... Or you can take a ten man tactical squad with a plasma Cannon and combat squad (175pts).... Hell you could even buy them a drop pod. First turn it comes in they combat squad half run into a building with plasma cannon the other half get ready to charge the enemy ...


You kinda missed my point. Tacticals, Terminators, and Legion are three different units that perform three different roles.
The tactical squad in the pod cannot fire the p-cannon when it arrives, and will get instantly wrecked by a TEQ unit due to lack of saves against power attacks. They also have half the base attacks.
Legion have a more varied (though obviously far more expensive) heavy weapon options than a ten-man Terminator Squad. The Cyclone Launcher for Termis is great, firing two shots on arrival, but I'd personally rather have the plasma cannon shot.
Different strokes for different folks.

I do agree that S&P hamstrings the Legion. If you bork the scatter reroll, and end up far from your target, you're probably going to soak a LOT of small-arms fire (the best way to kill the Legion). Lascannons and such are a joke to them, though, with the 50/50 chance of saving against them.

/shrug.

 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





They don't soak up small-arms fire any different from MEQs, I wouldn't say they soak up a "LOT" of small arms unless you roll like the devil consistantly.

Math much? 3++ is not 50%. Cover saves are what are normally 50%.

Lascannons at them are a waste, not disupute there...but that's the opponent's choice in the matter, it's not like the Legion with their inv saves actually atrract weapons that don't do well against them.

Sure, the Tacticals can't pod in and shoot plasma cannon, but do you need a deepstriking plasma cannon?
Why can't you have a tactical squad sitting in your deployment zone lobbing plasma cannon fire 36" away?

Hell, a dread with a plasma cannon, can shoot from own deployment zone or from coming in on a pod.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







Reason i mention taking a tactical squad with a plasma in a drop pod is you come in first turn and set up (using run to get you in place 2" deploy +d6" normally enough to get you into a building on the 1st floor, 2nd if your lucky)... and then can shoot as much as the LotD who come in on turn 2

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/19 20:45:53


 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

The best way to use them, is to paint them green and play them as salamander sternguard (It is pretty much the same model anyways, just with flames and skulls)

   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

I was thinking of using Sternguard as a base for converting more metal mini's into LotD to add to my old 2nd edition LotD army, then I noticed the new metal LotD mini's being a future release and thought "excellent!".

As to usage? I still use mine as codex Marines. Would I ever use them as the current codex stat's them out as? Probably not, as they are just too expensive for such a fragile non-scoring unit.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

It's not really surprising that the Legion of the Damned is termed 'not usable'.
The unit is too costly for what it can achieve.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Major






far away from Battle Creek, Michigan

wuestenfux wrote:Legion of the Damned Marines (metal) will be released by January 2010.

How would you use them on the battle field, and it what kind of SM army?


Their best use is as a "counts as" model for any other unit but Legion of the Damned.

PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.

Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.

 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

'Counts as' is the best usage for them.
That's really sad.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

I have always liked the Legion of the Damned and I am thinking about starting a marine army that is based around 20 of them.

I would do it but there are so many Marine players already in the area, and I do not want to add to the problem by playing another one. Also if I build a Marine army I could not take Yakface’s disappointment in me.

Maybe I like LotD because I am a long time Thousand Sons player, but I will just say a few things about them.

If you look at just what they can kill, you do not understand how to properly use a durable unit, because there are many other uses for them.

And to those that think they can be killed by small armies fire I have to say you do not know what you are talking about. When have you seen marines killed by small arms fire on the table top? You get killed by AP3 and under and assault. Take IG…you don’t get killed by lasguns, you get killed by battle cannons and vets with plasma, and melta and lascannons. At 12+ inches small arms fire is a joke.


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





'Count as', I think I said that in the first post here.
_________________

20 LoTD?
2 Elites slots, that's 610 points minimum before upgrades/hvy/special weapons.

That's roughly the cost of 3 tactical squads with free hvy and special weapons, and score.

_________________
@Blackmoor:

Is there some 'Taunt' ability of the LoTD to be used 'properly' to attract Ap3 and under fire?
If they are attracting a huge portion of low ap fire, there are few reasons:
1. The opponent Absolutely has nothing better to shoot at, so it's win/win.
2. The opponent is an idiot. Which doesn't say much about LoTD.
3. He’s mostly dumping small arms on them, but the special is just there as flavor.

And to those that think they can be killed by small armies fire I have to say you do not know what you are talking about. When have you seen marines killed by small arms fire on the table top?


Are you Serious?

There are 2 ways to down marines, bringing the Low ap or mass small arms.
Mass Low ap is generally costly and in low supply.
Mass small arms is economical, it's numerous, it's everywhere.

Weight of dice and making them roll saves is a tried and true method of downing marines. I'm not saying it's the best or that it's the only way. I'm saying it's an efficient way.

In addition the more wounds you cause the more likelihood you can force saves on important models.

If my plague marines can drop to mass small arms then regular MEQ will do to.

OHHHHH, you play Imperial Guard. See, that skews the opinion. You should have said that first.
You play an army that can bring both a torrent of fire and spam the special weapons like no one’s business, in addition to mass Ordinance Weapons.
You have the options other players may not have. Certainly everyone posts based on their experiences, but I highly suggest keeping things general or specify with what respect you statements are based on.

Now back to LoTD.

Nowhere did I(/anyone?) say they drop to small arms “fast”. It was said they drop at the same rate as other MEQs to small arms, yet cost roughly 60% more.

They will not magically attract low ap fire if there is the option between targets. What (at least) I am saying is that small arms are a much more economical weapon to down them, with you losing out using an ability you pay through the nose for.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






Scalp wrote:Depending on cost, and if they are plastic or metal, and how many per box, they may turn into some salamanders.


They might make some good Sternguard for a Salamanders army.

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

The Legion would be more useful if the unit can get FNP.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





So it would then be the bastard child of a Plague marine and a Thousand Son?
Ewww, prob. worse than 2 Girls and A Cup.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




wolverhampton

they do look pretty facking awesome tho
flames and skulls
throw them horns up \m/

mean green fightin machine 
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







hell you know what would make them worth taking?
2+ inv
Ok they're still slow with a single heavy, special and close combat weapon. But at least they have something to right home about
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

They should be made more durable vs shooting,
but a 2+ inv save would be make them almost unkillable.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







wuestenfux wrote:They should be made more durable vs shooting,
but a 2+ inv save would be make them almost unkillable.
Hard to kill but then they do jack any way, since they are slow and you can out run them ... Still how about 3+ inv and a 2+ coversave ?
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Except for Daemon Hunters that laugh in their face.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
 
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