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The fact you can get 2 hydras or 3 chimeras for the price of a kitted out Punisher has really made me sour on them.

BUT THEY LOOK SO COOL!

Anyone found a use?

Besides being the coolest tank there is, not really. A pie template will normaly hit as many, and battle cannon has a much higher strength and ap. Plus I think it's less points, I might be wrong.

A bloke at my FLGS used one in the 1200 points invitational Queensland Masters tournament on the weekend. Tomorrow I'll find out how he did... It's a hard list though.

EDIT: Wait, no... nevermind. It's an Executioner. I always get these new variants mixed up...

The only real time I've seen them work really well has been when fighting demons. They work well against demon princes/heralds, for example. High toughness, multiple wounds and an invulnerable save means it will take a great deal of small arms fire (or even special/heavy weapons) to drop them, and blast-type weapons will only inflict one wound. A punisher with 3 heavy bolters should generate 6-7 wounds, a feat few other similarly priced units can accomplish. If no such targets are around, it'll murder many demon troop selections, too. As mentioned above, large blasts can generate a lot of wounds, too, but scattering can really throw the numbers off. The punisher is easier to rely on thanks to the huge number of dice involved, helping to average things out.

I think the tank's pretty weak otherwise. The number of wounds is kind of nice for torrent-of-fire shenanigans, but aside from fighting demons (and DE, I suppose) there are better choices for IG.

A friend of mine who runs a punisher now and then pointed out that even though a vanilla russ will do just as much, if not more damage if it hits, it runs the risk of missing completely. A punisher will at least always get SOME hits, and against its preferred targets (light infantry) it will always do some damage. This makes it better than it may otherwise look on paper.

This is rather obvious once you think about it, but is the sort of thing that can be easily overlooked by a simple comparison to a vanilla russ, which only has a one in three chance of direct hitting and will scatter by 4" on the average when it misses (most common 2d6 roll = 7 - 3" bs).

Unfortunately it can still struggle to make its points back on a 'per se' basis because it's preferred targets are generally cheap in points cost - unlike a russ that can make its points back with two or even one good shells hitting high-value units like armour or meqs. Nonetheless those cheap hordes can totally ruin your day and earn much more than their points back if they breach you lines and start meleeing your vehicles, so a 'per se' comparison isn't always accurate.

It really needs to be kitted out with sponson hbs to hit its full potential, but is very scary to hordes when so equipped. Once you start rolling 29 dice to hit all it takes a single above average 'to hit' roll and you start wiping out full units. We ran one in a team game vs orks and it did quite well, hosing two whole boys units that would have otherwise overrun our centre

edit: after reading the above post, they fo' so' murder DP's and would scare the bejesus out of any MC or wraithlord that stumbled into its sights.

Jimole wrote:It really needs to be kitted out with sponson hbs to hit its full potential, but is very scary to hordes when so equipped. Once you start rolling 29 dice to hit all it takes a single above average 'to hit' roll and you start wiping out full units. We ran one in a team game vs orks and it did quite well, hosing two whole boys units that would have otherwise overrun our centre

It still copped a powerklaw though

one of the pains i see it having is a 24" range on its main cannon- brings you close to klaws/meltas, and one turn when the dice gods are against you...
They do alright vs Horde/light infantry/ok against MC's. Really though i think it needs some kind of escort to give it a bit more 'oomph' out of it

This is true, although the kinds of armies it does well against (orks and nids in particular) tend to close the distance very fast and thus the range is not really an issue.

The bottom line is that there are much better choices that the punisher competes for heavy slots.

That being said, for some reason I love the look of the cannon and have used a punisher with HB sponsons and with Pask as an upgrade and it has served me well.

If I was building a list for a competitive tournament I would consider other possibilities, but it has a place in my army for weekly games.

Yep, only real use I see for it is against a Chaos Daemons list. Fully kitted out that can be 32 shots and the AP- means next to nothing since they have invuls anyways.

Jimole wrote:This is true, although the kinds of armies it does well against (orks and nids in particular) tend to close the distance very fast and thus the range is not really an issue.

Thats what i mean RPJ trukk has a charge range of 13"+2"deployment+6" charge, 21" =\ roll a 2 or better for a waaagh! roll and that punisher gets a single round of shooting at the trukk('s, since they tend to not travel alone ), sitting still if you want to shoot those sponsons... kinda hairy. A vanilla russ would be pounding them from the other side of the board- and will do better than a punisher vs most targets. But then again, when the fighting starts getting personal, having to do broken arrow strikes on your guards with russ cannons etc can turn out really bad Maybe have a Punisher cruise around with some platoon squads/mechvet squad to take an objective?

Two hellhounds will do pretty much the same job as a Punisher wounding more easily, Perhaps getting less hits in (two templates & two h.bolters) and pretty much the same ranges. They would suffer with the lower AV values all-round but ofc they benefit greatly from the vehicle squadron (and multiple smoke launchers) rules.

Pask in a Punisher once destroyed about 900 points of Eldar in a 1000 point game, I reckon they have a place

I hear a lot of people saying that Pask Punishers are going to be big-time once the new Tyranids come out. Personally, I'm unconvinced, but the idea seems like it might have potential.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Anyone found a use?

Paperweight? Without pask it's not worth the points in any way. With pask it's only worth the points if you're shooting at a MC. Even then, why not just get an exterminator with pask and heavy bolters, still pretty good at killing MC's and can easily pop transports too. Short range and high points cost, and BS3 without pask stop this tank from being a worthwhile choice.

the punisher is amazing at being a visual aid to explain why 20 shots ISNT very good to people who think more is better!

A lot of newer player see it and are like "OMG this thing must kill so much" then I break out the math.. 20 shots, 10 hits, 7 wounds, 2 marines dead..

I think people expect more from 20 shots

as a deathguard player i smiled when our local guard player bypassed the executioner for the punisher. with pask its a huge bunch of points, sure, 20 shots looks cool, but a basic battlecannon is scarier in the long run.

The only time you should run it if if your fighting a big scary creature. I don't think it would hurt a gargantuan, but some monsterous creatures could take a pounding. Again, sometimes it's useful (very rarely) but a vanilla russ is still the most versitile.

very very good at taking out orks and nids-not bad with skimmers/badly armoured flyers/jetbikes/bikes- 20 S5 shots cant be wrong!

Fighting horde armies like orks and nids.

Saltoric wrote:Fighting horde armies like orks and nids.

The eradicator does that a lot better due to its str. 6 cover ignoring blast. This is me as an orks player.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:A bloke at my FLGS used one in the 1200 points invitational Queensland Masters tournament on the weekend. Tomorrow I'll find out how he did... It's a hard list though.

EDIT: Wait, no... nevermind. It's an Executioner. I always get these new variants mixed up...

Considering the 'comp system' that aussie tourneys seem to use, I would consider any data from any aussie tourney to be completely invalid.

I'd like to see a Punisher face a Seer Council on Jetbikes. A truckload of lead is required to kill those guys, it'd be interesting to see how the Seer Council fairs.

That being said, at first it looks like it will simply rape everything and then you do the math and realize you've got better choices.

Rico.

Rico wrote:I'd like to see a Punisher face a Seer Council on Jetbikes. A truckload of lead is required to kill those guys, it'd be interesting to see how the Seer Council fairs.

That being said, at first it looks like it will simply rape everything and then you do the math and realize you've got better choices.

Rico.

Chances are it would kill one seer council member.

shrike wrote:very very good at taking out orks and nids-not bad with skimmers/badly armoured flyers/jetbikes/bikes- 20 S5 shots cant be wrong!

Saltoric wrote:Fighting horde armies like orks and nids.

Killing 5-7 Boyz a turn is hardly "very very good", is it?

Punisher is missing a rule to make it worth taking. Hell just give it rending and i think it would become use-able enough that people would consider taking it.

Agreed, Rending or Twin Linked on the cannon. A 75% chance to hit without Pask would go a long way towards making it an interesting tank.
Otherwise, Hellhounds rip up light infantry a lot better, though without the hard candy shell. Alas, if the Punisher were a bit cheaper than a stock Russ, it's "OMG 20 SHOTS!" factor might make it a really nice fire magnet.

Wehrkind wrote:Agreed, Rending or Twin Linked on the cannon. A 75% chance to hit without Pask would go a long way towards making it an interesting tank.
Otherwise, Hellhounds rip up light infantry a lot better, though without the hard candy shell. Alas, if the Punisher were a bit cheaper than a stock Russ, it's "OMG 20 SHOTS!" factor might make it a really nice fire magnet.

... other ones i thought might be fun were ...


>Shots cause instant death.
>The unit shot has to take a pinning test with a negative modifier depending on their cover save. (ei 0 cover save no mod; 6+ they would have -1, 5+ = -2; 4+ = -3; 3+ = -4 2+ = -5). representing the amount of damage being caused around them.
>12 Man transport capacity 3 fire points
>Rather then having the lumbering rule all other LR have it could instead be a fast vehicle.
> A squadron only comprising of them could be take as an elites choice.
> A special rule that lets it target a different unit then the rest of the squadron.
> The main gun can always be fired no matter how far it moves or whether it is stunned or shaken. If it does suffer a weapons destroyed when firing roll a D6 on any 1 the weapon doesn't fire (note a new dice is generated for every weapons destroyed reasult)

... any one of those (/ Rending or Twin Linked on the cannon) would make it worth considering.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Anyone found a use?

Paper weight?

Yeah Polonius said it. Paper weight. Well it at least looks cool in your display case.

Punisher sounds cool on paper till you actually try it out.

20 shots isn't that good when you only hit with 10 and you still have to wound and then they get armor/cover saves. Pask makes you hit with more but costs a lot.

The 24 range makes it not that great you have to get too close for comfort and if your moving up your not firing all your bolters.

Strength 5 pigeon holes it to be anti infantry. Strength 5 can only Glance a Rhino and Tyranid MCs are toughness 6 and wraith lords are toughness 8 with a 3+ save. Strength 5 is going to have a problem wounding those. Its ok for shooting hordes of infantry but as mentioned above its not even good at that.

Now if the Punisher had an Auto Cannon Str7 AP4 with 20 shots like Leman Russ with the Rotary Auto Cannon 20 in the Warhammer 50k Win95 game now that would have kicked major ass.

I was considering trying this out purely to kill a daemon prince, shame its so expensive.