Necron Wraiths and Running

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**toxic_wisdom**

Please put aside the "why would they move-n-run vs turboboost" element. I'm curious about the Wraiths and their ability or denial to run in the shooting phase... As per the Necron FAQ they are classed as Infantry, but are able to move like Jetbikes - so the question is = can Wraiths run ?

**Valkyrie**

I would say that if they are classed as infantry then yes they can run.

**Aduro**

I've always found it a lot easier if Wraiths and Destroyers just followed All the rules for Jet Bikes.

**NecronLord3**

Doubt that they can do this as Scarabs have the same movement type and are not allowed to run per FAQ.

**Ridcully**

I don't have my Necron Codex atm (brought it out at warhammer last week and i think the Necron player took it home by mistake

) but from the sounds of it, i'm leaning towards 'no'. Moving in the shooting phase isn't moving like a Jet Bike in any sense.

Edit: NecronLord3 may be referring to the INAT FAQs, which appear to say both Scarab Swarms and Wraiths can't run in the shooting phase. I don't think either are prohibited in the GW FAQ.

**Red_Lives**

Is the wraith classified as infantry? If so yes if not then no, its that cut and dry.

**Ordznik**

Red_Lives wrote:Is the wraith classified as infantry? If so yes if not then no, its that cut and dry.

Wraiths "move in the same way as a jetbike", and "count as jetbikes for movement purpose". So it's not as cut and dry as you think. They don't follow the movement rules for infantry, obviously.

The question is, is running part of the movement rules? I don't think so. It seems to be separate to me. But I can see the argument from the other side.

**Ridcully**

Red_Lives wrote:Is the wraith classified as infantry? If so yes if not then no, its that cut and dry.

Wraiths move as Jet Bikes. Your cut and dry logic fails as soon as you attempt any movement not Jet Bike based.

**nosferatu1001**

Running is MOVEMENT that jet Bikes are explicitly prohibited from doing.

If you are told you "move as a jetbike", and you try to Run, you are no longer "moving as a jetbike"

**Sanctjud**

Just turbo boost...you get nothing from running Wraiths.
At least with Turbo boosting you get essentially 3 different but same value saves...

On top of that you can't be pinned...

No brainer IMO...stick with turbo boost.

**Tri**

Sanctjud wrote:Just turbo boost...you get nothing from running Wraiths.
At least with Turbo boosting you get essentially 3 different but same value saves...

On top of that you can't be pinned...

No brainer IMO...stick with turbo boost.

without digging out me necron codex i can't check but what gives them the ability to use turbo boosters? ... I thought that turbo boosters was a rule that you got for being a bike (and sub type jetbike) ... not just moving like one. (Same would go for relentless but i think they have that or a version of it)

**Sanctjud**

Well... they 'count as jetbikes'... so... from how I see the ruling is that they can turbo boost as that is a movement option for jetbikes.

If the rule is as hazy as some say, there is room for wiggle room.

Either way, Wraiths are a questionable unit to use anyway...

**nosferatu1001**

They "move as" Jetbikes, and Turboboosting is a "Move" for a jetbike.

**kirsanth**

Turbo Boosters is a USR that (jet)bikes have.

**Tri**

kirsanth wrote:Turbo Boosters is a USR that (jet)bikes have.

which is my point if they are not jetbikes/bike how do they get this USR?

**kirsanth**

I have the older printing of the Necron codex. I have been told that in the newer version some of the models are listed as being jetbikes -- I do not know the entire list, or how valid the statement was.

That said, if they only move as such, they should not have it.

**Tri**

kirsanth wrote:I have the older printing of the Necron codex. I have been told that in the newer version some of the models are listed as being jetbikes -- I do not know the entire list, or how valid the statement was.

That said, if they only move as such, they should not have it.

... well after a rummage i've found the codex. No none of the nercons are jetbikes. Many do however have a rule called jetbikes ".... counts as jetbike for movement purposes. They may also move and fire their ....". Wraiths have wraith flight again move as jetbike. Scarabs get the best version since they can move and fight like jetbikes, while not actually being bikes. Hell even the lord only "moves as if mounted on a jetbike"

I wonder if theres been an FAQ calling them jetbikes?

Ah here we go its been fudged up in the FAQ

Q. Are Wraiths classed as infantry or jetbikes?
A. Despite moving as jetbikes, Wraiths are still
classed as infantry.
Q. When employing the turbo boosters special
rule, can Wraiths move through any terrain?
A. They may move through any terrain without
penalty when doing so.
Q. Are Scarab Swarms jetbikes or infantry?
A. Despite moving as jetbikes, Scarab Swarms are
still classed as infantry.
Q. As Scarab Swarms move like jetbikes, do they
also have the turbo boosters universal special
rule?
A. Yes, they may make use of the turbo boosters
special rule – though they may not move through
difficult terrain while doing so.

**kirsanth**

IIRC it was either a summary or part deliniating which models were which unit type -- otherwise there is only a few MC, a Skimmer tank, and a slew of infantry.

**don_mondo**

It is in the GW Necron FAQ:
Q. Are Wraiths classed as Infantry or Jetbikes?
A. Despite moving as Jetbikes, Wraiths are still classed as Infantry.

(Darn it, Tri beat me to it with his edit!)

So it boils down to which takes precedence for allowing or disallowing the run. My opinion, no, they cannot run.

**kirsanth**

Glad I checked back before posting the FAQ part. hehe

I think I would fall on the side of "yes" to running, as they are infantry.

/shrug

**Red_Lives**

Running is not really moving, its an ability than infantry/jump infantry/walkers/MC can perform in the shooting phase. If they are Infantry models they may run, unless stated otherwise. Nowhere does it explicitly remove this ability for wraiths. "moving as jet bikes" does not turn the unit into a jet bike unit even-though they move as one, in the MOVEMENT phase. However they are still classified as infantry models, and infantry models may run unless stated otherwise.

Wraiths are infantry, they may run. (Even though you never really should want to run them since you can always turbo-boost them)

**nosferatu1001**

Red-live - RUNNING IS MOVEMENT

Just because you move outside of the movement PHASE does not stop it being MOVEMENT

So, you go to try to run int the shooting phase, which is movement (it is defined as such...) and look up any restriction you have because you "move as jetbikes" and you find that you are restricted from running.

So you cannot run, as doing so would be breaking the rule that you "move as jetbikes" - and jetbikes cannot run.

**Red_Lives**

Except they are NOT jet bikes, they just move like one. They are still infantry models, and infantry models may run unless stated otherwise. Nowhere does it state otherwise (Clearly at least)

**nosferatu1001**

Red_lives

What part of "MOVES AS JETBIKES" is causing issues?

Yes, infantry may run - however running is movement, meaning that you look at their special rules "moves as jetbikes" - so you are not allowed to consider yourself Infantry when running, you are a jetbike as far as running is concerned. With me so far?

When you look at the rules for Jetbikes and running, you see they are disallowed from doing so.

Rule prohibits you frmo doing it, therefore you cannot do it.

To the OP: oddly enough you areg etting the exact same answers as on 'seer, although the ones over there are better argued....

**Sanctjud**

exact same answers as on 'seer, although the ones over there are better argued....

For once...and without a flame war.

You know what...it's because !RAWG is not here

**Norbu the Destroyer**

Not to hijack a thread but what happened to him, or is this one of those issues "to speek of this is to be dragged away by the secret police???"

**Sanctjud**

I think there is a thread about is somewhere...lol.
Or a thread that went into a bit of detail about it, but I forget...I think it was in a Tyranid rumors section...

**Red_Lives**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Red_lives

What part of "MOVES AS JETBIKES" is causing issues?

To the OP: oddly enough you are getting the exact same answers as on 'seer, although the ones over there are better argued....

What part of "They are Infantry" is causing issues?

They may move as jetbikes but they are still infantry models. Move as Jetbikes is not the same as changing their unit type to jetbikes. And please note that "Run!" is classified as shooting (not movement) on page 53 under the bikes rules.

**Ridcully**

Running is movement, as per the Run! rules. It's used instead of shooting, and occurs in the shooting phase. This puts it under the SHOOTING heading. Nowhere does it suggest running does not involve movement.

"Concentrating on movement and giving up their chance to shoot."
"run instead of firing, immediately moving"
"Running movement"

**Red_Lives**

Exactly, they are not jetbikes. Nothing on page 53 except "Bikes cannot run in the shooting phase" prevents wraiths from running, and since wraiths are not bikes this does not apply. Since wraiths are infact not bikes they just move like them, nothing is preventing them from running.