Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ
Sicarius

Command Squad
Plasma Guns x4
Power Swords x4
Company Standard
Drop Pod

Elites
Sternguard (10)
Powerfist
Meltaguns x2
Combi-melta x8
Drop Pod

Sternguard (10)
Powerfist
Heavy Flamers x2
Combi-flamer x7
Drop Pod

Troops
Tactical Squad (10)
Power Weapon
Meltagun
Multimelta
Rhino

Tactical Squad (10)
Power Weapon
Plasma Rifle
Missile Launcher

Fast Attack
Landspeeder
Multimelta

Landspeeder
Multimelta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So the plan is that the tac squad in the rhino is in reserve and will outflank using the scout gift from Battle Forged Heroes.

The two sternguard squads and the speeders will come in for an alpha strike and wipe out as much enemy armor and infantry as possible.
If all troops are inside their transports then the flamer squad can stay in reserve instead.
10 sternies allows combat squading upon arrival, which undoes any target saturation issues.

Other Tac Squad sits at home objectives and plinks away, or I find 35 points for another Rhino...

Where would I get those points.

So what do you think, too much, too little, problems?

Sicarius isn't that good really, he just allows the inititive to be re-rolled, could be a -2 or something. The special rule he gives is only to one unit as well. As a army, or unit utility Sicarius doesn't do a lot. Personaly, I'd take a geared up captain matching his wargear.

Command squad isn't that good, they just act as wounds for the captain when being shot at. I'd rather take a terminator squad really.

Looks ok, could do with another unit of troops really. I wouldn't swap sternguard special ammo for other weapons, just give them combis instead.

I'd take Kantor to make the Sternguard Veterans scoring.
The Cmd squad is not mandatory.
I'd drop it for some more supporting units, like a Dread in a Pod.

As has been noted, Sicarius isn't that great (I don't think he's flat-out bad, you just pay a lot on top of the normal captain, he gets tougher, you get a range of abilities, but he's not massively dangerous at any one thing). In most lists I'd say go for it, but with 20 sternguard, kantor is just too good to pass up. There's a massive difference between 20 and 40 scoring units.

That would make a command squad invalid, since you need a captain (right?) So why not take more sternguard!? Or just some tactical/assault marines, whatever. Currently your command squad seems like a lot of very concentrated points with little protection. (anything that cuts armour and FNP will just sweep them off the board)

I'd also cut the heavy flamers from the sternguard. Yes, they're a significant boost over the normal flamer template, but they reduce the squad's range a bit, lose versatility. Take more combi-flamers instead, then get a rhino for your 2nd tactical squad.

I think the list would be a lot stronger with kantor and 3xsternguard. Just a lot more scoring units (and bodies)

Agreed on dropping Sicarius for Pedro. Libbys work wonder in with Sternguard also, Null zone + Hellfire rounds makes quick work of anything with a high toughness and inv. saves. I would equip your sternguard with 5 combi-meltas and 5 combi-flamers or combi-plasma, Drop the meltaguns and heavy flamers. Makes for the ultimate swiss army knife squad with a droppod.

Also find the points to get that other tactical squad in a rhino

Heavy Flamers on the sternguard work great patricularly in a drop Pod or with a Libby with GoI. Don't drop them what ever you do.

Meltaguns seems a little point less you lose the special ammo, a combi-melta is fine. That would give the squad 10 Melta shots that is certainly enough. Sternguard excel at infantry killing more than anything. In fact for the same points as the melta gun you could take Multimeltas which at least would give you a bonus over the combi-melta. But for me stick with the combi-melta all the way.

As others have said taking that many Sternguard means Pedro trumps Sicarius by miles and miles. Sicarius isn't really that good and him at that command squad are dead if hit by a demolisher or Battle cannon...

That is a lot of points not doing very much. Swapping in Pedro and dropping the command squad gives you quite a few more points to play with. Even if the one tac squad is going to sit back give it a Rhino to act has a pill box.

Dump Pedro in with a Sternguard squad and use the points saved to take another sternguard squad or some Terminators..

Okay I'm going with Kantor instead, a little orbital bombardment never hurt anyone...

Added Rhino!

Plus I've added a group of scouts in a storm to add to the alpha strike potential, and I've got 5 tac marines in a pod. This will be good for bringing both sternies in on turn one, and for grabbing that stray objective.

I admit I like the scouts, but not the tac squad so much.
What else can I get for 125 points? Rifleman Dread, but no pod....hmmmmm need that pod.

I guess I could give one of the other tac squads a pod, so what to use the last 125 points for....
thinking...thinking...

HQ
Pedro Kantor

Elites
Sternguard (10)
Powerfist
Multimelta x2
Combi-melta x8
Drop Pod

Sternguard (10)
Powerfist
Heavy Flamers x2
Combi-flamer x7
Drop Pod

Troops
Tactical Squad (10)
Power Weapon
Meltagun
Multimelta
Rhino

Tactical Squad (10)
Power Weapon
Plasma Rifle
Missile Launcher
Rhino

Scouts (5)
Powerfist

Tactical Squad (5)
Drop Pod

Fast Attack
Landspeeder
Multimelta

Landspeeder
Multimelta

Landspeeder Storm

You don't need a pod on a rifleman dreadnought as it has a 48" range, it should reach across the table. You only need a pod if using a multi melta and possibly assault cannon, really.

As for heavy flamers on the sternguard, I'm going to have to disagree with flingitnow. Reason is the sternguard ammo varies range, though all 12" rapid fire. To use the flamer you need to be in 9" and you'd want to assault after - but you can't if you rapid fire. Also using the Librarian and GOI is a risky tactic, you need to be 9" away from your target in order to burn - you fancy your luck deep striking each time close to a enemy? Me neither. Only way to get around that would be a tactical sgt with a homing beacon, but, if you have to be within 6" of the tactical squad, and if they're that close to the target they can do the job.

I just don't think heavy flamers on sternguard is that good - you want flamers take combis

The fist on the scouts won't last 5 minutes, and the other combat squad is only acting as a suicide first drop unit. Drop the scouts and beef up the squad, will probably come to the same points. Also you won't need the speeder storm so you'll still have some points to play with.

If you take the Scouts in a speeder storm (and I love that combo an alpha strike that actually gets into assault on turn one) take the heavy flamer. Always take the heavy flamer. Scouts can't shoot for toffee the Heavy Bolter is next to useless but the Heavy flamer should be able to soften up the unit enough to ensure the scouts can win. Or if you are up against stuff the scouts can beat on their own you can threaten 2 different units by heavy flaming a 2nd.

Rifleman Dread doesn't need a pod, you could pod on of the tac squads in stead to aid the sternguard alphastrike. Or take a Predator they are 120 points and can really help crack those transports, and MCs and even blow away a few Termmies too! Granted that is not great saturation though.

I think you'd be better off with the original configuration of two Melta Guns per Sternguard squad, and then with a mix of Combi-Flamers and Combi-Meltas, say four and four. Combined with the Sternguard Ammo it'll give you maximum flexibility while not leaving you too weak at any one point, like when the Pod lands and the doors pop (so the Multi-Meltas are wasted), or at the end of the game (when the Combi-Weapons are spent). A combination of Melta-Gun, 2x Combi-Melta, and 2x Combi-Flamer in each combat squad can give you up to three Melta Shots a turn, and at least one Melta Shot for the game.

You should also consider the number of Drop Pods. Remember that the Pods come down half and half, with one half in the first wave, and the other half with regular reserves. Three is a good number, particularly since your Sternguard are in two, so think hard about adding another Pod.

Also using the Librarian and GOI is a risky tactic, you need to be 9" away from your target in order to burn - you fancy your luck deep striking each time close to a enemy?

Locator beacons on all the DPs you have to build your army around using that tactic.

Heavy flamers are ace and 2 in a sternguard squad accompanied by Pedro is lethal. Yes you can't rapid fire that final turn but you are throwing out so many attacks it doesn't matter. Each sternguard gets 4 attacks on the charge (as does Pedro), then you have the bolt pistol/combi-flamer/heavyflamer shots and you could be easily throwing 60-70 attacks that turn. Anything that survives will be running away and you can cut them down with a sweeping advance.

ps whilst I think about it the Predator is a far better option than the rifle man Dread, it is 5 points less, has 1 more point AV on the front, is quicker (when it needs to be), and whilst they both get 4 shots sure the Dread is getting TL but 2 of your shots are S9 AP2 so you'll do better against the heavier transports (Chimeras and Devilfish).

I love Scouts in a Storm. Yes the Multi-melta shoots at WS3 but it's worth the risk IMO. I use Close combat scouts (CCW/Bolt Pistol) with a Sgt with Meltabombs. Keep em cheap. Use them to slag tanks. If you get lucky you Multi-melta one tank and assault a different one, not bad for some scouts in a flying skateboard

But dont underestimate the Cerberus Launchers. Close combat scouts can dice up a Non-MEQ squad and that -2 leadership roll can break a unit.

Thats my point. Your going to have something else around the drop pod, due to units coming out of them, or on sgt's and they'll get the job done. Also once the fight has moved away from the pods the sternguard are kind of stuck, so the sgt's will need locator beacons.

so the sgt's will need locator beacons.

Can't take them... Only teleport homers which don't work with the power.

I love Scouts in a Storm. Yes the Multi-melta shoots at WS3 but it's worth the risk IMO. I use Close combat scouts (CCW/Bolt Pistol) with a Sgt with Meltabombs. Keep em cheap. Use them to slag tanks. If you get lucky you Multi-melta one tank and assault a different one, not bad for some scouts in a flying skateboard

But dont underestimate the Cerberus Launchers. Close combat scouts can dice up a Non-MEQ squad and that -2 leadership roll can break a unit.

Yeah I always go meltabomb too. You can slag a tank. But even a unit of 5 MEQs is fair game if they don't have a fist or power weapon and you do, particularly if you're within 12" of Pedro (Sarge then gets 5 attacks on the charge with PW or 4 with fist).

I'd still stick with the Heavy flamer though due to the scouts abysmal BS.

GOI is nice but from my experiences the Sternguard are a suicide squad for two reasons. One you drop them right in the thick of things and two you opponent usually commits just about everything he's got to kill them. My point is they don't have to move everything will come to them or they are dead

So I dropped that wasted tac squad, gave a pod to an existing tac squad, lost one combi-melta and went back to meltaguns (I would like to fire when disembarking), put the heavy flamer on the Storm (duh that should nave been obvious )
Instead of one upgraded Pred, I have two with just the autocannon, helps with target saturation and will probably be underestimated.

Thanks All!!

HQ
Pedro Kantor

Elites
Sternguard (10)
Powerfist
Metlaguns x2
Combi-melta x7
Drop Pod

Sternguard (10)
Powerfist
Heavy Flamers x2
Combi-flamer x7
Drop Pod

Troops
Tactical Squad (10)
Power Weapon
Meltagun
Multimelta
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (10)
Power Weapon
Plasma Rifle
Missile Launcher
Rhino

Scouts (5)
Powerfist

Fast Attack
Landspeeder
Multimelta

Landspeeder
Multimelta

Landspeeder Storm
Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support
Predator

Predator

Have you got or can you find 5 points to give the Scout Sarge meltabombs? Being able to slag a tank as well as rout infantry gives you more options and means they can be effective against more types of army...

Taking 2 predators was probably the sensible option, I just like the lascannon sponson Pred (the all lascannon pred is way over priced).

Yeah I just thought that the one pred with TL las would get blasted right away. Everyone is so scared of those things, including me!! Plus I have a pretty good amount of melta.

I guess I could drop on combi-_____ and get the five points for meltabombs, especially if I get up to a LR the first turn. Powerfists won't do it

Just some FYI back up there. You can't have a 5 man Tactical in a Drop Pod

especially if I get up to a LR the first turn.

Exactly people are generally pretty aggressive with their LRs expecting them to take anything and if you hit it first turn with a Meltabomb you autohit because it won't have moved... Bad times for the LR... Lots of laughs all round for you!

Also Tau Hammerheads, IG anything, Monoliths. Krak grenades are great but that melta really gives you that extra punch. You could drop the fist to a sword for the extra points with Pedro around you'll be getting plenty of attacks with the Sarge anyway. Against a lot of things you are rolling a 3 to wound anyway, it depends on how much MEQ or orks you are expecting the scouts to fight really.

General CHaos, you are correct sir! Thanks for pointing that out I never noticed.

Ahhh krak grenades....the most underutilized standard issue Marine item...

Well I kind of forgot about Pedro's extra attacks. I wonder if another scout/storm combo would be better than those two preds?

I'd have to squadron the two other speeders:(
And lose one sternie from each squad(or two from one), which would affect combat squading abilities... hmmmm

I tend to run 2 squads because 1 scout squad in an aasault is not that scary 2 can be lethal. With the 2 Heavy Flamers they can even take on a 30 Boy Ork mob.

However without the preds to lack a bit of ranged anti-transport and that can leave your scouts with nothing to assault except transports which is a waste.

However if you are losing 2 stern take them from the same squad you don't want to stop both squads from combat squading...

FlingitNow wrote:

so the sgt's will need locator beacons.

Can't take them... Only teleport homers which don't work with the power.

I've looked in the codex and you could possibly make them work. It says that the teleporting beacons only work for units which are teleporting, GOI is teleporting. However, it does mention terminators won't scatter if land within 6". I would play it as it says ANY unit which is teleporting, it gives examples which cannot be used and doesn't mention GOI.

I've looked in the codex and you could possibly make them work. It says that the teleporting beacons only work for units which are teleporting, GOI is teleporting. However, it does mention terminators won't scatter if land within 6". I would play it as it says ANY unit which is teleporting, it gives examples which cannot be used and doesn't mention GOI.

It never states that GoI is teleporting hence it can't be used. I at first thought as you did until someone pointed out it doesn;t state anywhere that GoI is teleporting.

Well it obivously is teleporting, isn't it? I don't think it needs stating the obivous.

GoI is just deepstriking.
Locator = Yes to guiding them in.
Teleport homer = No, as they only work for Terminator Equivalents.

I don't know why everyone is so bonered by GoI...I've got a minimum of 6 plasma cannons, no one GoI's vs. me... esp. if they intend to shoot and not run out of plasma-gang-bang-formation.

I don't rate GOI either, but its obivously teleporting via deepstrike like Necron veil of darkness - it just needs a bit of common sense. The codex actually gives examples of units which cannot use it, which is units which are literally dropping out the sky. The Librarian isn't. The Librarian is moving from one part of the board to another, teleporting, using deep strike, like terminators do

I don't rate GOI either, but its obivously teleporting via deepstrike like Necron veil of darkness - it just needs a bit of common sense. The codex actually gives examples of units which cannot use it, which is units which are literally dropping out the sky. The Librarian isn't. The Librarian is moving from one part of the board to another, teleporting, using deep strike, like terminators do

RaW and commonsense are not compatible...

Yes I'd have taken it the way you have but common sense goes out the window when it comes to interpreting the rules. It is about the letter of the law on here. Probably because it is an American websight and that is how their stupid legal system works rather the law being the sense and meaning behind the law it is the direct words written...

No... it's just that most go to tourneys here.
Where things 'TRY' and stay objective.

Common sense is subjective.
Interpretation to RAW is subjective, that's why we stick to just the letter of the law.

Now... RAI, who knows.

But I think there is a reason they made to different kinds of homers... so i think it was meant to be different...one for termies, one for eveything.

Don't have to go all American Legal system bashing...

Scouts (5)
Powerfist

Looks pointless to me, since you have four full scoring units.
I'd consider another Speeder or Predator.