How to win objective games as IG

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**Kazerkinelite**

I seem to have trouble winning Objective games as IG. My regular opponent is a CSM player and he uses 2 rhinos with marines to rush the objective(s) and than I end up wasting so many troops trying to flush him out of the objective(s), sadly I dont have Chimeras(yet), Ive been talking to him about it and ive really come to the conclusion that I really need some Chimeras to load my guard into to get the objective(s) before him and than just hold it like guard are supposed to, or if he does get there first I atleast have armor to protect my guys till i get in rapid fire range, but I wont be getting Chimeras anytime soon, so I was wondering if any experianced IG player knows if there is another way to approach this or even a better way than Chimeras.

**dumplingman**

the other option is to use IG blob platoons. Put 30 guardsmen in a platoon give sarges PW and then add a commisar and you got a unit that can pretty much whittle down a 10 man chaos marine squad. also don't under estimate the humble leman russ for killing marines.

**Kazerkinelite**

I forgot about the blobs. The only thing that worries me about that is that my friend has a defiler which would pretty much just rape my blob in melee and the thing has a battle cannon which is a large template. Also he has a vindicater which is a str 10 AP2 24" large template. But still I might try that out and see if my russes can just take out his pesky defiler and vindicater before they can get close and it really sucks that the defiler cant be shacken or stunned.

**Razerous**

Chimera + veteran squad.

Valkyrie hull + veteran squad (+turbo boost).

+ Many other vehicular targets.

+ Blob squad.

Fin.

**willydstyle**

IG is one of the best armies for objective missions. If you're having trouble taking objetives, reanalyze your list and your play. Make sure you're playing for the objective from the beginning of the game, not just on the late turns.

**don_mondo**

Kazerkinelite wrote:I forgot about the blobs. The only thing that worries me about that is that my friend has a defiler which would pretty much just rape my blob in melee and the thing has a battle cannon which is a large template. Also he has a vindicater which is a str 10 AP2 24" large template. But still I might try that out and see if my russes can just take out his pesky defiler and vindicater before they can get close and it really sucks that the defiler cant be shacken or stunned.

That's why you also give those sgts meltabombs. Run three squad blobs, gives you enough numbers for casualties and such. And one of the things that IG do very well is kill vehicles. Give that blob autocannons or lascannons and use the order "Bring It Down". Six twin-linked autocannon or three twin linked lascannon shots should hurt that Defiler.

**makr**

Here are a few nice IG tricks:

Blobbed platoons, as people have already said. Maybe they don't has as much firepower for the points you could spend on a vehicle, but they sure are difficult to shift.

Psyker Battle Squads with Weaken Resolve - with 8 psykers, you can drop any unit's leadership to 2. Hit them with a manticore (you are taking a manticore, right?) or other strong pie plate to force a morale test, and well, they're off the objective. Obviously doesn't work if they're sitting in a vehicle or are fearless.

Wall off your own objectives. A while ago I played a 2 objective mission against my Necron friend, and he demolished me. But, I pulled back all my chimeras/Hydras on turn 4 and made a 2-deep circle around my objective. I didn't even do anything on turns 5, 6, and 7 just to rub in the fact that there was no way he could shift them quickly enough. It ended in a draw and a pissed off Necron player.

Marbo. He comes in anywhere, throws his BS5 demo charge, and dies. Perfect for objective missions, especially if combined with the Psyker Battle Squad to force a morale test - he kills an entire squads and the rest flee when they can't pass an LD2 test. If you don't have a PBS, some light fire should be able to pick off the stragglers.

That's all that comes to mind, but IG are really the best suited for objective missions because of the sheer number of scoring units you can take, and because of your strength at range that lets the units camping your objectives still provide good fire support.

**Kazerkinelite**

I do not have a manticore. I do Have a baslisk though and a leman russ and a Vanquisher. Thanks for all the tips ill try the blob idea and try and get my hands on some psykers.

**doubled**

What infantry are you working with? It would help us to maybe see your standard list.

**Kazerkinelite**

CCS-medipack, melta, vox caster, carapace armor-115
PCS-vox caster, melta, krak grenades-45

IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60

Vets-shotguns, bolt pistol, vox, 3x flamers, usually carapace armor-122

Leman Russ- lascannon, heavy stubber-175
Basilisk-heavy flamer-125
Leman Russ Vanquisher-lascannon-170

Total=1002

still new to actaully playing the game, so please rip apart this list if it is really bad, just if you do tell me what I should do instead. Also I know standard is 1850 but i dont have that many points yet so me and my friends usually play 1000-1500 games sense 1500 is as much points as I can field atm

**WingsofCadia**

Instead of the vanquisher you can go online and go to like barn bitz and get just the demolisher cannon and attach to the leman russ I love the tank and i have 2 in my 1850 list along side a colossus try that instead of the vanquisher. It has the power to pop tanks and destroy any kind of infantry whether large groups of strong HQ or Elite units.

**Kommandant56434**

As stated, you need to get rid of the vanquisher, there are better Russ options. I also noticed a medpack on your CCS. I say you should get rid of it to get another special weapon b/c "feel no pain" is really easy to get around on a simple T3 guardsman. Flamers are good, but in my list i have it half flamers and half GL, as the krak grenade option is not that bad. A chimera would be good to take for both your CCS and your veteran squad; on top of keeping both alive much longer, multilasers are pretty good.

**Kazerkinelite**

Yes I really want some chimera's to rush my vets up with shotguns and also protect them from my friends marines. I converted my russ to a vanquisher to counter my friends LR at the time but with Str 8 I need a 6 to just glance(although rolling 2 D6 is nice for the vanquisher). so I will most likely change it back into a battle tank like it was. I am also getting a valkyrie for Xmas so any tips on that would be great and im debating rocket pods or hellfury missles. Also I have an old sentinal with autocannon on it that i could bring to fights also if anyone thinks its worth it.

**daedalus**

Kazerkinelite wrote:CCS-medipack, melta, vox caster, carapace armor-115
PCS-vox caster, melta, krak grenades-45

IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60

Vets-shotguns, bolt pistol, vox, 3x flamers, usually carapace armor-122

Leman Russ- lascannon, heavy stubber-175
Basilisk-heavy flamer-125
Leman Russ Vanquisher-lascannon-170

Total=1002

still new to actaully playing the game, so please rip apart this list if it is really bad, just if you do tell me what I should do instead. Also I know standard is 1850 but i dont have that many points yet so me and my friends usually play 1000-1500 games sense 1500 is as much points as I can field atm

My two cents. Take it or leave it, but if you do take it, make sure you include a grain of salt.

On the CCS/PCS:
When you say "melta" on the ccs and pcs, are you saying you have one melta guy in each? If so, (and your point totals seem to confirm) thats part of a problem. BS 3 melta is pointless unless you have a lot of them, so either pack four on your PCS for when you eventually do end up getting a chimera, use the points better elsewhere. Also, while I like medipacks, I don't like them on units that aren't earning back their points. My ideal PCS is basically what the Special Weapons Squads SHOULD have been made to do, which is load up a bolter, 3 flamers, and a medipack. Expensive, but it's always a target the opponent will go out of his way to try to wipe out before worrying about other things that are much more deadly. Bonus points for putting it in a transport and getting it to the edge of enemy cover. Carapace armor is iffy. I'm not sure how you're using your CCS, but mine never leaves cover or vehicles. I'd go with camo cloak if anything at all. I generally use it just for orders and only pimp it out with a lascannon or missile launcher at best.

On infantry:
If you blob up your squads, you only need one vox caster per blob. If you can see yourself doing that on a continual basis, you may want to move in that direction. Also, if you're blobbing up, commissars, commissars, commissars! You'll be embarrassed when you lose 5 guys (easy as IG) and 200+ of your points suddenly just break and flee off the table. Other than that, I like flamers on the infantry platoons, so you're doing fine there.

On veterans:
I go back and forth on Vets. I think they can be useful, especially when you're starting out and might not have the troops to manage two platoons. Flamers, however, are a waste of both points and BS4. Give them either meltas or grenade launchers. I'm leaning toward grenade launchers given your lack of transport. Shy away from plasma. Never, and I mean NEVER, take plasma without having at least a 4+ save. FNP helps too. It's just too expensive to be viable.
Okay, so I looked back up at them again, and I think I see what you were going for. This was supposed to be an assaulty unit, right? Has it ever made it up to assault with more than 75% of the men left?

On Heavy Support:
I don't think your heavy support choices are _bad_ necessarly. I've played around with the idea of the vanquisher, and when it hits, it's always hit hard. Having that been said, it never hits when you need it to. How have your experiences been with it? Personally, I'd either convert it back, or toss Pask on it and enjoy +1 BS and crack shot, but that gets to be really expensive and there are probably better things to do with the points.

In general:
I see you're getting a valk. I liked playing around with them for a while, but I've personally gone back to all Chimera transports, mostly due to the fun that is having scout sentinels and hellhounds as fast attack. Your list kind of lacks having big dedicated anti-tank, and I suspect that may be some of the problem you're running into. Maybe if you have some spare lascannons from heavy weapons teams, you could consider converting the valk into a vendetta. 3 TL Lascannons are a whole lot of fun. With regard to your sentinel, I think I'd hold off unless you can get your hands on at least one other. Sentinels seem to follow the classic rule, "One is none, two is one...". Is it scout or armored?

Something you should be looking at is how the CSM player always gets you. Is there one particular thing you're always getting hit with that you can't manage to get around? You should find something within your strengths that allow you to do with that. You can outshoot him in about every possible setting, but you'll roll over the moment he gets into assault range, so I recommend longer range things in general like lascannons or missile launcher. Heavy weapons squads getting issued the "Bring it Down!" order really go a long way toward applying the hurt.

What else do you have to work with? Is that all you've collected so far or is that just the majority of what you're using?

**schadenfreude**

It's actually really easy to snag an objective as IG if you get stuck going 2nd.

Keep 1 Valkyrie with a squad inside in reserve and come in on a side using the Valkyrie's scout move.

Stay out of trouble, try not to draw too much attention to the Valkyrie, move 12" each turn to deny assaults/make them hit on 6's, and wait for turn 5.

Turn 5 go flat out onto the objective. With a troops squad inside it's a scoring unit.

**daedalus**

Additionally, see if he'll let you get away with a little bit of count-as. I assume he's probably the one who got you into the game to begin with, and he's talking tactic with you afterwards, so it sounds like he really wants you to have a good shot at winning. Maybe get some cut down blocks of 2x4 or a couple paperback books or something and call them chimera's or whatever. Plastic army men for more guardmen. Soda bottle with a paper nose cone for a deathstrike missile launcher. It's not too hard to figure out the dimensions of any tank or height of any infantry, so with a tiny bit of effort, you can get enough knowledge to work out TLoS.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

schadenfreude wrote:It's actually really easy to snag an objective as IG if you get stuck going 2nd.

Keep 1 Valkyrie with a squad inside in reserve and come in on a side using the Valkyrie's scout move.

Stay out of trouble, try not to draw too much attention to the Valkyrie, move 12" each turn to deny assaults/make them hit on 6's, and wait for turn 5.

Turn 5 go flat out onto the objective. With a troops squad inside it's a scoring unit.

Ah, my group calls it the "Eldar Forumla". One problem with it is that if the game continues on, your Valk is dead from everything shooting at it and no holofields to protect. I've also thought it unsportsmanlike, though i suppose that's just personal preference.

**willydstyle**

A valkyrie that's only moving 12 isn't very hard to kill.

How come using tactics is unsportsmanlike?

**daedalus**

Well, typically, when I've seen this used from Eldar, it involved as many wave serpents with holofields and squads of dire avengers in them as possible, hiding as far away from the other player playing a cat and mouse game turboboosting around until they can dump themselves on top of an objective last minute. The holofields along with the cover save make the thing nearly impossible to kill.

As mentioned, the Valk isn't nearly as hard to kill, so I guess it isn't as bad, but I wouldn't do anything like that personally, because it feels too similar to the "lame" tactics I've seen otherwise. One man's tactics is another's

. Having that been said, if I was playing against an IG player who did this, I don't think I'd think any less of them. If the aforementioned scenario with Eldar was what I was up against, I would be irritated severely.

**Kazerkinelite**

daedalus wrote:
Kazerkinelite wrote:CCS-medipack, melta, vox caster, carapace armor-115
PCS-vox caster, melta, krak grenades-45

IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60
IS-vox, flamer-60

Vets-shotguns, bolt pistol, vox, 3x flamers, usually carapace armor-122

Leman Russ- lascannon, heavy stubber-175
Basilisk-heavy flamer-125
Leman Russ Vanquisher-lascannon-170

Total=1002

still new to actaully playing the game, so please rip apart this list if it is really bad, just if you do tell me what I should do instead. Also I know standard is 1850 but i dont have that many points yet so me and my friends usually play 1000-1500 games sense 1500 is as much points as I can field atm

My two cents. Take it or leave it, but if you do take it, make sure you include a grain of salt.

On the CCS/PCS:
When you say "melta" on the ccs and pcs, are you saying you have one melta guy in each? If so, (and your point totals seem to confirm) thats part of a problem. BS 3 melta is pointless unless you have a lot of them, so either pack four on your PCS for when you eventually do end up getting a chimera, use the points better elsewhere. Also, while I like medipacks, I don't like them on units that aren't earning back their points. My ideal PCS is basically what the Special Weapons Squads SHOULD have been made to do, which is load up a bolter, 3 flamers, and a medipack. Expensive, but it's always a target the opponent will go out of his way to try to wipe out before worrying about other things that are much more deadly. Bonus points for putting it in a transport and getting it to the edge of enemy cover. Carapace armor is iffy. I'm not sure how you're using your CCS, but mine never leaves cover or vehicles. I'd go with camo cloak if anything at all. I generally use it just for orders and only pimp it out with a lascannon or missile launcher at best.

On infantry:
If you blob up your squads, you only need one vox caster per blob. If you can see yourself doing that on a continual basis, you may want to move in that direction. Also, if you're blobbing up, commissars, commissars, commissars! You'll be embarrassed when you lose 5 guys (easy as IG) and 200+ of your points suddenly just break and flee off the table. Other than that, I like flamers on the infantry platoons, so you're doing fine there.

On veterans:
I go back and forth on Vets. I think they can be useful, especially when you're starting out and might not have the troops to manage two platoons. Flamers, however, are a waste of both points and BS4. Give them either meltas or grenade launchers. I'm leaning toward grenade launchers given your lack of transport. Shy away from plasma. Never, and I mean NEVER, take plasma without having at least a 4+ save. FNP helps too. It's just too expensive to be viable.
Okay, so I looked back up at them again, and I think I see what you were going for. This was supposed to be an assaulty unit, right? Has it ever made it up to assault with more than 75% of the men left?

On Heavy Support:
I don't think your heavy support choices are _bad_ necessarly. I've played around with the idea of the vanquisher, and when it hits, it's always hit hard. Having that been said, it never hits when you need it to. How have your experiences been with it? Personally, I'd either convert it back, or toss Pask on it and enjoy +1 BS and crack shot, but that gets to be really expensive and there are probably better things to do with the points.

In general:
I see you're getting a valk. I liked playing around with them for a while, but I've personally gone back to all Chimera transports, mostly due to the fun that is having scout sentinels and hellhounds as fast attack. Your list kind of lacks having big dedicated anti-tank, and I suspect that may be some of the problem you're running into. Maybe if you have some spare lascannons from heavy weapons teams, you could consider converting the valk into a vendetta. 3 TL Lascannons are a whole lot of fun. With regard to your sentinel, I think I'd hold off unless you can get your hands on at least one other. Sentinels seem to follow the classic rule, "One is none, two is one...". Is it scout or armored?

Something you should be looking at is how the CSM player always gets you. Is there one particular thing you're always getting hit with that you can't manage to get around? You should find something within your strengths that allow you to do with that. You can outshoot him in about every possible setting, but you'll roll over the moment he gets into assault range, so I recommend longer range things in general like lascannons or missile launcher. Heavy weapons squads getting issued the "Bring it Down!" order really go a long way toward applying the hurt.

What else do you have to work with? Is that all you've collected so far or is that just the majority of what you're using?

really appreciate the advice. Im still trying to get the hang of my army. I do have a little bit more in total including all that i posted above. Ive got 2 russes(1vanquisher as stated) a basalisk, 2 sentinals(1 not built yet, the one that is built is an old one but I count it armored or scout because it does have armor plating on front but not a closed roof so at home games they just let me call it what ever), 60 guardsmen(4 squads with flamers, 2 with GL's), 10 stormtroopers, CCS, PCS, Valk(for xmas in 2 days), 1 squad of vets with shotguns, Sniper special weapons squad, heavy weapon squad(not built debating on autocannons or lascannons). think thats it, ill edit if i forgot anything. And i really do want to make my valk a vendetta but the problem is getting enough lascannons ill have 3 from my heavy wweapons squad if I decide to make them autocannons though.

**willydstyle**

daedalus wrote:Well, typically, when I've seen this used from Eldar, it involved as many wave serpents with holofields and squads of dire avengers in them as possible, hiding as far away from the other player playing a cat and mouse game turboboosting around until they can dump themselves on top of an objective last minute. The holofields along with the cover save make the thing nearly impossible to kill.

As mentioned, the Valk isn't nearly as hard to kill, so I guess it isn't as bad, but I wouldn't do anything like that personally, because it feels too similar to the "lame" tactics I've seen otherwise. One man's tactics is another's . Having that been said, if I was playing against an IG player who did this, I don't think I'd think any less of them. If the aforementioned scenario with Eldar was what I was up against, I would be irritated severely.

Wave serpents can't have holofields.

In 4th ed, the "skimmer spam" army was supposedly king of the hill, but I never lost to it in tournament play.

**Kirika**

Blob up and Mech up.

Combining Infantry Squads so you have 30 men with a Commissar for the stubborn rerollable leadership 9 is pretty tough to dislodge from your home objective. Give them las cannons or auto cannons to use with the bring it down order. If you want a close combat monster add power weapons on your sarges and comissar and a priest with eviserator and then run either Creed for the For Cadia Order or Straken to give them furious charge.

Putting your men in Chimeras makes them much more difficult to kill and lets you get to objectives faster. Vets should take special weapons like Meltas or Plasma and Infantry squads in Chimeras should just get an auto cannon for shooting out the top

Putting your men in Valkyries are also good because you can move 12 and fire the multi laser and missles. However you probably will be taking Vendettas for the 3 tl las cannons which can only move 6 if they want to fire.

**doubled**

I myself never put flamers on footsloggers, I never ever want to be that close, plus I run a squad of conscripts in front of my normal infantry with the "send in the next wave" rule/character, make them have to chew through totally expendable bodies, chimera's are good. Try your luck with the different tanks, All Russ Variants can work, do some counts as, with your army I would almost keep them, add some long range anti tank punch. But please, please, please, drop the baslilisk. If you get turn 1, it'll shoot once, then they move within 36 inches and your bassie is going to sit there doing nothing.

**Raxmei**

doubled wrote:But please, please, please, drop the baslilisk. If you get turn 1, it'll shoot once, then they move within 36 inches and your bassie is going to sit there doing nothing.

That's a widespread misconception. With the exceptions of the Griffon and Colossus which have special rules specifically forbidding it, all vehicles with ordnance barrage weapons have the option to fire their weapons directly in the same manner as regular ordnance weapons, ignoring the minimum range.

I like to keep flamers in my foot squads because it's cheaper than plasma and gives them something useful to do in their final moments once the enemy gets close. I don't use squads with just flamers, but it is imaginable that they'd fill a useful role.

**Gwar!**

However, the Bassie then needs LoS, which means the enemy can see it, which means it's paper maché armour assplodes next turn

**Raxmei**

Gwar! wrote:However, the Bassie then needs LoS, which means the enemy can see it, which means it's paper maché armour assplodes next turn

Yes we all know know that. It's how the Medusa operates all the time and some people still swear by them. It's certainly a far cry from being completely unable to fire.

**Kazerkinelite**

Dont plan on getting rid of the lisk...even though the 36" min range kinda sucks, every time i get to use my lisk i take chunks of things out and ask anyone i play with and they will tell you im one of the luckest persons when its comes to scatter dice(id say more than 50% of the time i get a direct hit). Also you dont leave your lisk out in the open you keep it in cover or you keep troops in front of it so deep strikers have to shot through units so you get 4+ cover save and also the times ive played, my lisk doesnt take to much hurt once my freinds can actaully shoot it and at str 9 its a pretty good direct fire(as long as it hits).

**grankobot**

Should still never run basilisks, IMO. With all the options in the new book they're like the "wal-mart brand" artillery choice. You can buy the cheapo brand, or you can spend 35 points more and get a manticore which is better in every way.

The only advantage for the basilisk is that it can be used in squadrons. As far as I'm concerned, you don't have to worry about being efficient with your HS slots except in 2000+ games. There's more than enough good stuff to fill out your lists from other force org slots, so you can deal with having just 3 single HS choices. If you were going to take squadrons, you're going to take a lot of artillery tanks. This gives them some survivability even in the open. If they can afford to be "exposed", then why not go for medusas? They're better than basilisks 99% of the time and only 10ish points more each, and the fact that they're now survivable enough to be hanging around in LoS means their disadvantage of not being able to fire indirect is partially negated.

Plus having 9 S10 AP2 big templates is funny.

"Go on, take your shots at my exposed artillery. I have 8 more of those. lol"

**lordrevege**

GAURDSMEN IN TRANSPORTS?!?!?!?!
ARE YOU NUTS???
Thats about as useful as transporting 3rd graders armed with plastic knives and laserpointers.
IF you have the money, spam Guardsmen.
Fifty guys only costs 250 points (WHAT A BARGAN!!!!!)
PLUS If you get creed you can use "The Honor of Cadia" order, which makes an entire squad fearless AND they get furious charge.

That would flush out ANY infanty unit you wanted.
But they NEEED a comisar. Otherwise they'll end up retreating and getting swept up.

TRUST ME

**daedalus**

willydstyle wrote:
Wave serpents can't have holofields.

In 4th ed, the "skimmer spam" army was supposedly king of the hill, but I never lost to it in tournament play.

Well I... interesting. I think perhaps I should have a once over of the Eldar codex and perhaps talk to the fellow I played against.

**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

lordrevege wrote:GAURDSMEN IN TRANSPORTS?!?!?!?!
ARE YOU NUTS???
Thats about as useful as transporting 3rd graders armed with plastic knives and laserpointers.
IF you have the money, spam Guardsmen.
Fifty guys only costs 250 points (WHAT A BARGAN!!!!!)
PLUS If you get creed you can use "The Honor of Cadia" order, which makes an entire squad fearless AND they get furious charge.

That would flush out ANY infanty unit you wanted.
But they NEEED a comisar. Otherwise they'll end up retreating and getting swept up.

TRUST ME

Wow. Do you feel very strongly on this issue, or have you just gone off your medication?

If the OP doesn't have a lot of chimeras, then yes, blob platoons are the way to go.

Nominate some blobs to hold your nearer objectives and give them all special and heavy weapons. Try and place objectives on your side of the board in or near cover, so these troops can hold them. Not too near the board sides, because your enemy may have outflanking units.

Nominate some blobs to go and take your enemy's objectives. Give each blob a commissar with power weapon, and every sergeant a power weapon and meltabombs. This will allow them to assault marines and help them resist tank shocks. Obviously, this combo works well with Creed or Straken, because they can supply furious charge. Those platoons should be useful for claiming and keeping objectives.

Just keep in mind that your long-range platoons + any vehicles in your army have to be able to kill transports and vehicles at range. Regarding your current list, you don't need a vox in every squad, just one to every platoon. I would give command squads maximum special weapons as well, so you can run them behind the blob platoons and use them to shoot up people who get close.