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Is it true that you can create your own Space Marine Chapter with special rules for extra points? I thought that this was too good to be true, but my FLGS said that it was legal if the point values are fair. In the Codex: SM, it says that you can create your own chapter, but I always though that it was more of a "Paint your little army dudes whatever colour you want." Please get back to me on this as soon as possible because I have a mini-tournament at the said FLGS.

I would suspect that your FLGS meant that people might allow it if the points values were fair.

'Legal', so far as the game rules are concerned, covers official rules, not home-brewed stuff. If you want to create your own Chapter, you either need to stick with the rules in the codex, or get your opponent's OK to use your own rules.

It was once legal ... but then SM got a new codex and you can't do any of that fun any more.

I'm playing a game tonight with a friend who wrote up codexes for the AT-43 models. The key is not to make everything super awesome like you wish it was because then no one will want to play you. He does a good job of making a fair army.

If you give your army strengths and weaknesses so that it is fun to play against, some people will agree that it's just for fun anyway so they might as well help you test it out.

You just need to find someone who's cool with the idea of playtesting. And of course sitting down and talking about your ideas and codexes with them first will help!

Well, you can Sort of do it, by taking superspecialawesome characters, Like Vulkan... and... err... nope, never seen one other than Vulkan, so I can't comment on the others (if they even exist)

/yawn.

Vulkan is far from the only usable special character. Don't let internet trolls tell you otherwise. Lysander and Shrike are other more commonly seen special characters.

Regardless of what chapter you make, you can just rename one of the special characters to suite your own chapter and you are done.

If your gaming group is fine with it, of course you can make whatever special rules for your guys that you want. However, it will not likely see play when only "legal" armies are permitted (such as in tournaments).

To OP:

No. In an "official" sense of the word, you cannot.

In a "non-official" sense.....hell, make up whatever rules you like. Just remember that your opponent have to agree with them too. If he doesn't, then you are stuck with the "official" rules and codexes.

To put it bluntly: No, you cannot. If you do so, you are breaking the rules.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, go ahead. The fun police aren't going to break into your house and anal rape a confession out of you. However you should not expect the opponent to accept such a game. If he refuses, he is not being TFG or anything similar, he just wants a game of Warhammer 40K and not a game of Warhammer 40K +1.

Pika_power wrote:To put it bluntly: No, you cannot. If you do so, you are breaking the rules.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, go ahead.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, you're not breaking the rules. You've both agreed to change them to suit yourselves, which is a core part of the rules as explained on page 2.

insaniak wrote:

Pika_power wrote:To put it bluntly: No, you cannot. If you do so, you are breaking the rules.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, go ahead.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, you're not breaking the rules. You've both agreed to change them to suit yourselves, which is a core part of the rules as explained on page 2.

If you go with that, however, you can then claim if your opponent refuses to let you break the rules, he is breaking TMIR (as he is making the game "unfun") and thus automatically loses because he is cheating.

How does taking Vulkan help me make my own army rules?

No matter how many times you insist on that, it won't be what the TMIR actually says, Gwar.

insaniak wrote:No matter how many times you insist on that, it won't be what the TMIR actually says, Gwar.

All I am saying is that if you insist on using TMIR, I will insist on using TMIR to ask (nay, demand) that all my models have T10 and a 0+ Invulnerable save, and if you refuse, you are making the game unfun for me and thus "breaking" TMIR.

Nobody is 'insisting' on using TMIR, Gwar.

The post to which you responded was me pointing out that if your opponent agrees to use altered rules then nobody is breaking the rules.

That's not 'insisting on TMIR' ... that's 'suggesting a rules change, and your opponent agreeing to it'

insaniak wrote:Nobody is 'insisting' on using TMIR, Gwar.

The post to which you responded was me pointing out that if your opponent agrees to use altered rules then nobody is breaking the rules.

That's not 'insisting on TMIR' ... that's 'suggesting a rules change, and your opponent agreeing to it'

But my point is, if you allow that, where does it stop? As such, you are better off just sticking to the actual rules.

In any case, this thread has gone way off kilter, so I'll bow out gracefully.

Gwar! wrote:But my point is, if you allow that, where does it stop?

Wherever you and your opponent agree to stop. That's kind of the point.

Contrary to the sense of fear that YMDC can inspire, no one will come and murder your grandmother in the night if you and your opponent agree to do something differently. As long as you're both on the same page, you can play with your models however you want.

I, for one, frequently get my opponent's permission to play a game of Yahtzee on the side. It takes a little bit longer, since I'm rolling dice in batches of 5, but it's a great tie-breaker.

@ the OP: The rules your flgs are playing by are incredibly subjective. If it's just a friendly game-don't worry about it. In a tournament setting, it puts the onus on you to create an army list that your opponent has to agree to playing against. Whilst the BRB states that you can pretty much do whatever you want, if your opponent says that they would like to play by the stricter interpretation of the rules given in in the same book you will have to side with them if you want to get a game in!

Insaniak is right: If both you and your opponent agree to modify the rules in some way, then go ahead and have a game! If your opponent feels that you have mis-judged the 'extra' points cost for creating your own special chapter, don't be upset if they tell you where to go

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Pika_power wrote:To put it bluntly: No, you cannot. If you do so, you are breaking the rules.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, go ahead.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, you're not breaking the rules. You've both agreed to change them to suit yourselves, which is a core part of the rules as explained on page 2.

If you go with that, however, you can then claim if your opponent refuses to let you break the rules, he is breaking TMIR (as he is making the game "unfun") and thus automatically loses because he is cheating.

What page is that last rule on? I don't remember seeing anything about auto-losing.

Bookwrack wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Pika_power wrote:To put it bluntly: No, you cannot. If you do so, you are breaking the rules.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, go ahead.

If your opponent is fine with you breaking the rules, you're not breaking the rules. You've both agreed to change them to suit yourselves, which is a core part of the rules as explained on page 2.

If you go with that, however, you can then claim if your opponent refuses to let you break the rules, he is breaking TMIR (as he is making the game "unfun") and thus automatically loses because he is cheating.

What page is that last rule on? I don't remember seeing anything about auto-losing.

Well, what do you do when you catch someone cheating?

Tell them to stop it and get on with the game.

insaniak wrote:Tell them to stop it and get on with the game.

So someone who is Deliberately breaking the rules, intentionally trying to cheat, you would actually allow them to keep playing with you?

You sir are a saint and have a heart of gold!

Gwar! wrote:So someone who is Deliberately breaking the rules, intentionally trying to cheat, you would actually allow them to keep playing with you?

I'm confident enough of my own knowledge of the rules to be sure I'll catch anything too serious. Since it's generally (I would say pretty much always) impossible to tell whether they're deliberately cheating or just legitimately mistaken, yes, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and carry on with the game.

In more than 15 years of playing 40K, I can't say I've come across a single player who I could definitively say was cheating.

Besides, ultimately it's a game of toy soldiers. If someone feels desperate enough for a win that they have to cheat to get it, they're welcome to it.

Do you really need a rule that says if your opponent cheats you have the right to not play him anymore and call it a (moral) victory?

Do you really need a rule to tell you that if you and your opponent agree to an alteration of normal rules that neither of you are cheating?

Dracos wrote:Do you really need a rule to tell you that if you and your opponent agree to an alteration of normal rules that neither of you are cheating?

Obviously. There is a vocal group that thinks it's cheating even though the rules say you can; think of how insufferable they'd be if there was actually any credence to their claims.

RustyKnight wrote:

Dracos wrote:Do you really need a rule to tell you that if you and your opponent agree to an alteration of normal rules that neither of you are cheating?

Obviously. There is a vocal group that thinks it's cheating even though the rules say you can; think of how insufferable they'd be if there was actually any credence to their claims.

Let me clarify something.

I do not think invoking TMIR is cheating. It hardly can be, it's a rule after all.

No, what I denounce as "Cheating" is refusing to allow me to have T10 with a 0+ Invulnerable save Marine, because by doing so you are making the game "unfun" for me and thus breaking TMIR (and Breaking Rules Deliberately is equivalent to cheating).

Gwar! wrote:In any case, this thread has gone way off kilter, so I'll bow out gracefully.

What happened to this?

1hadhq wrote:

Gwar! wrote:In any case, this thread has gone way off kilter, so I'll bow out gracefully.

What happened to this?

You people sucked me back in!!!!!!!!!

TMIR is that if your playing me we play by the rules no changing and we can all have fun with that (corrections will be allowed since GW cannot proof read to save their lives)