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@hollismason
Had some interesting points for the FAQ thread and it got me really wondering about them.

A brief over view
- They always enter play via DS after Deployment Zones are determined but before models are placed
- At the start of the Tyranid movement phase, each cluster moves D6" in a direction determined by a scatter die (if a hit is rolled, the Nid player chooses where they go)
- If the spores touch an enemy model, impassable terrain, or suffer a wound, place the center hole of a large blast marker over the model, and resolve it as a S4 Ap4 attack. Spore mines that drift off the table or into friendly units are immediately removed from play.

So you are the bug player and you take 3x units of 6x Spores filling your FA choices (Don't worry they're dirt cheap )
The set up is a Spearhead (quarters) Deployment
Before models are placed you chose to DS your 3x unit of Spores into your opponents deployment zone.
This will give your opponent less space to deploy and the spores more of a chance to "splode" all over your opponent.

This is where it gets tricky...

BRB p11 wrote:Sometimes a unit may have to move a random distance instead of the usual 6"

Turn 1 at the start of your movement phase you roll 3x scatter die for your Spore Clusters... and they are all scatters!
When the unit moves... do they have to remain in BtB?
I'm thinking yes, what do you think?
I'm also thinking in theory you could use a "Run" roll to spread out and or theoretically get the spores into contact with enemy models.

RAW the unit appears to be broken. Its not till after they are deployed that they act as independent units. It doesn't state they are deployed individually.


Also, it keeps referring to "cluster" through out it which would seem to enforce that other wise you know he'd say spore mine.

And as they disappear when they drift into a friendly model; assuming they are seperate -- which it appears they are -- they almost guarantee drifting into each other, removing (most of) them really quickly.

Interesting... so you're saying they 3-6 entry is just how you buy them, and that once they hit the table they all float off and splat elsewhere?


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@kirsanth
That is in part what I guess I'm trying to understand.

I read it as Spore Cluster 3-6, so a unit comprised of 3-6 spore mines. Since they would be considered a unit the rules for movement would mean they would move as a whole and rarely bump into each other as you're suggesting.

Now, of course if they act independently and scatter for each as @hollismason is stating... that definitely makes them "broken"

Add in that if they land in difficult terrain they take a dangerous terrain check if one fails is going to destroy all of them.

Special Rules: Living Bomb: Spore Mines are ignored for all mission objectives. They are not subject to IB, never go to ground, and never fall back. At the start of the Tyranid movement phase, each cluster moves D6" in a direction determined by a scatter die (if a hit is rolled, the Nid player chooses where they go). If the spores touch an enemy model, impassable terrain, or suffer a wound, place the center hole of a large blast marker over the model, and resolve it as a S4 Ap4 attack. Spore mines that drift off the table or into friendly units are immediately removed from play.

Orbital Deployment: Spore mines never deploy normally. Instead, after deployment zones are determined, but before models and placed, the spore mines deep strike onto the table. If they scatter into impassable terrain or off the table, they are destroyed. Once the game starts, they move as in Living Bomb.

I dont know what that has to do with anything but thanks for posting it.

Just a point of reference since I bothered to look the rules up for the other thread.

@agnosto
This makes me feel that they are like any other unit only with a single random movement. And again thank you for posting the rules quote as it allows everyone to participate knowing the RAW, rather than speculate as to what it says

@hollismason
For 60pts that's not "horrible" for 6x LBT templates and the means to place them before the game in your opponent's zone actually can help you to force them into either a corner or further forward etc. It's an interesting meta change I felt. Yes a lasgun will pop em and send all of em into a splozion, but if you go first... you get em onto a unit not in a transport... 6x S4 LBT is nasty, playing with Valks they can really hurt a lot of units. If they are able to "assault" then they are even better.

I dunno, seems a little orky.

It actually seems a lot like Spore Mine Clusters in DoW2...

Which I hated for a period as they seemed almost impervious to small arms fire meaning they would absolutely decimate units of Eldar.

agnosto wrote:Special Rules: Living Bomb: Spore Mines are ignored for all mission objectives. They are not subject to IB, never go to ground, and never fall back. At the start of the Tyranid movement phase, each cluster moves D6" in a direction determined by a scatter die (if a hit is rolled, the Nid player chooses where they go). If the spores touch an enemy model, impassable terrain, or suffer a wound, place the center hole of a large blast marker over the model, and resolve it as a S4 Ap4 attack. Spore mines that drift off the table or into friendly units are immediately removed from play.

Orbital Deployment: Spore mines never deploy normally. Instead, after deployment zones are determined, but before models and placed, the spore mines deep strike onto the table. If they scatter into impassable terrain or off the table, they are destroyed. Once the game starts, they move as in Living Bomb.

Small point, the codex actually reads " each sport mine moves D6"...", not " each spore cluster". Mine also starts off with another sentence. "Living Bomb: Each spore mine is treated as an individual unit. Spore mines are always ignored...."

So rather than the cluster moving as a whole, each drifts separately after deployment. Does seem like they will take each other out at times. But for 180 points, the chance to screw up someones deployment, force them to deal with the mines turn 1, and possibly get to move onto them and explode, is well worth it. A good scatter on turn 1 could separate them out nicely, and then they have to be shot at individually.

What I am not shure of is this. After quarters are determined but before the opponent deployes his mini's the Spore Mines DS first.

So do they DS singally? Or do they DS as a Unit first, then when it's the Tyraninds players turn, then they move individually. So how do they deep strike? First spore mine is placed, then the 2nd spore mine is place within 2" of the 1st spore mine then the 3rd spore mine is placed within 2" of the other two?

Then after that they roll and hope and pray to the dice Gods that they don't move in a directon of a spore mine.

Also what is the fluff for the spore mine disapearing after hitting a freindly unit?

I have played a few games with a list with 3 clusters of 6.

I was testing an idea of protecting my elite genestealers which jump out of the terrain. So I basically used them to block the terrain I hid my genestealers inside and stop the enemy getting a squad in there and killing off my genestealers.

The rule you guys are looking for that makes the spore mines act individually is actually in the Orbital Bombardment part. It says " after they have landed, the spore mines in the cluster are then treated as individual spore mines, as described in the living bomb rule. ".

With that said, let me talk about how they went.

1. A key thing that kinda sucks about them (other than having to move 18 individual units using scatter each turn, god that was a pain lol) is that they are removed if they scatter into a friendly model. Because they all come down packed close together there is a very likely chance of this happening to some. I find that it is best to first move the ones of the outside. On average I would lose about 2 per cluster to this. After the initial break away movement the chances of it happening again are much slimmer.

2. Tanks with front armour 11 or higher can easily clear them by tank shocking them, which is annoying.

3. Unfortunately the games I played were against an air cav valkyrie army and so the tactic of controlling his deployment didn't work as he just scout moved over them and outflanked.

4. Using them to screen Ymgarl genestealers was kinda a fail move lol. Obviously a bunch of spore mines around a piece of area terrain is a clear indicator that I secretly choose that piece of terrain to hide them in. And as a consequence he moved as far away from that terrain as possible. However bluffing as I did in the second game worked well.

5. My opponent generally ignored the spore mines when shooting as there was more important threats to deal with.

Isn't there a rule that Spore Mines, (what is the short form? SM? that is Space Marines, Spores?) can either be on the ground to effect ground units or up in the air to contest flying units, but then dosn't effect ground units.

Reading so many rumours I don't know what is real or not real yet till Saturday. (Unless someone knows how to get the codex before then, since I didn't pre-order. Only 2 more days.)

That was the larger FW versions, and an older version of those even.

@agnosto: Please, if you are going to quote a rule, quote it properly. Exact wording is VERY important:

Living Bomb: Each Spore Mine model is treated as an individual unit. Spore Mines are always ignored for the purposes of any and all mission objectives. Spore Mines are not subject to Instinctive Behaviour, never go to ground (voluntarily or otherwise), run or fall back. At the beginning of the Tyranid Movement phase, each Spore Mine moves D6" in a direction determined by rolling the scatter dice (Tyranid player chooses the direction if a hit is rolled).

If a Spore Mine suffers a wound, touches an enemy model, impassable terrain, or it ends any Movement phase within 2" of an enemy unit, it immediately explodes. Place the central hole of the large blast marker over the Spore Mine and resolve any hits at a Strength 4 and AP of 4. Spore Mines that drift off the table or into a friendly unit are immediately removed from play.

Now, something I had not considered: Spore Mines that drift off the table or into a friendly unit are immediately removed from play.

This seems to indicate to me that Spore mines will only be removed from play if they actually move into contact with another friendly model. Thus, when you deep strike the clusters, they are in BtB, but are not removed because they didn't actually move into contact. Then, when you move them via the scatter dice, they are free to move away from each other. If you are unlucky enough to roll a scatter that moves it towards another spore in the cluster, it then gets removed. The moral is to move the outer spores first

Spores DS b2b? is this normal? I never played a game yet with DS rules, so does this same rule apply to Space Marines as well?

Yes, units that DS are placed in Btb. Actually a single model is placed and all other models are placed in a circle (all touching the initial model). If there is no more room a second circle is started (in btb with the first circle) and so on.

What was the general consensus about them being able to assault? Are units that move via random direction able to assault? How about run in the shooting phase?

If they are spore mines really aren't half bad...

paidinfull wrote:What was the general consensus about them being able to assault? Are units that move via random direction able to assault? How about run in the shooting phase?

If they are spore mines really aren't half bad...

My interpretation is that they get 1 d6" move per turn, during the movement phase and if that happens to take them into contact with an enemy model, the living bomb rule comes into play. I think that if they had wanted them to run or assault, they would have given them the slow and purposeful USR. GW and their well written rules...

Is there anything that prohibits the spores from running or assaulting? For example a rule in the BRB about units that move in a random direction may not run or assault?

paidinfull wrote:Is there anything that prohibits the spores from running or assaulting? For example a rule in the BRB about units that move in a random direction may not run or assault?

They are prohibited from running by the codex. Assaulting, nosomuch.

I can see your point but there's this; "At the start of the Tyranid movement phase, each cluster moves D6" in a direction determined by a scatter die (if a hit is rolled, the Nid player chooses where they go)."

It doesn't specifically say that there's no further movement.

meh. GW rules writing strikes again.

Ah, I see it now "run or fall back"

Being able to assault is still incredibly useful for them.


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@agnosto
p11 sort of covers the Random Movement as being considered their 6" move. The only issue I see with using that reference is that it refers to the rules being covered later and... they never are.

Also to note is that from previous discussions, any movement in the movement phase is considered to be movement. Hence the whole ATSKNF, 3" consolidation plus normal movement... only allows 6". Though I'm not trying to rehash that discussion as I'm sure you can find it by searching Dakka.

the RAW explicitely states that mines are not allowed to run. And regarding the assault:
IIRC models without cc stats may not assault (their stats are "-" ).

Another thing:
Why can vehicles with av11 just drive-kill them? As soon as the mine gets hit by the vehicle it pops with S4.
The template's midlle hole is never above the vehicle, so the S is halved (notice that in 4th ed this was different since there the 2D6+3 was a special rule, now there applies the standard template on vehicle rule)
So if i am not totally wrong (i wish you could proof me i am wrong on that), then mines do always roll 1D6+2 for vehicle piercing.

shadowtyrant wrote:IIRC models without cc stats may not assault (their stats are "-" ).

Nope, no such rule.

Why can vehicles with av11 just drive-kill them? As soon as the mine gets hit by the vehicle it pops with S4.
The template's midlle hole is never above the vehicle, so the S is halved (notice that in 4th ed this was different since there the 2D6+3 was a special rule, now there applies the standard template on vehicle rule)
So if i am not totally wrong (i wish you could proof me i am wrong on that), then mines do always roll 1D6+2 for vehicle piercing.

Pretty Much. Spore Mine cannot hurt vehicles whatsoever now, unless they land directly on target after being fired by a biovore etc (where a model is never placed and they just are resolved like a normal shooting attack).

@shadowtyrant
Admittedly I'm looking to get the most out of this unit... there's a part of me that doesn't want them to be as bad as they actually are, so I'm hoping to find anything that could even make them remotely worth it.

The only reason why I could see taking them right now is they would effect your opponents deployment, which is a neat meta change

This is the rule you were referring to and I don't see that it prohibits a unit with a '0' or '-' from initiating a shot or an assault only that the test would either automatically fail or they would be automatically hit. Assaulting with the spores would allow you to get into contact with an enemy model and force trigger living bomb as I read it... or, have them get hit and pretty much auto killed, either way the result would be the same.

Like I said, I'm admittedly looking to get the most out of the unit cause as they currently are their pewp.

Also a vehicle can't just "drive over a spore" which I thought I could when I played against a biovore. You would have to tank shock the spore in order to come within 1" of the spore. S4 v A11, the front armor of a rhino wouldn't hurt the rhino during a tank shock.

S2. The Hole is over the Spore, not the Tank. Anything with AV 9 or more cannot even be glanced.

If the base can get under the vehicle before the models touch, does that count?