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OK, I'm a guard player, a long time guard player. I remember when you could fire half the models in your Chimera. I remember when we lost that and now it's sort of back.

And as much as I love my Chimera castles it's just a bit unfair and unfun. So... how about this?

(everything else is the same)

Fire points The Chimera has 1 fire point in the back that may be used by two models (or one heavy weapon team).

Lasguns For 5 points you may buy 6 lasguns (3 per side) with a 90 degree arc of fire.

I like the idea of having a big gun in the back.

They are fine the way they are.

I don't see a problem with 6 lasgun fire points and a 1 gun (including HWT) fire point. Seems fluffy and not improbable. Are people really afraid of lasguns? As is now, I think you can fire five anything weapons from the Chimera?

Would be hard to blast a lascannon from inside a chimera without popping open a hatch.

So perhaps have the 6 Lasguns as fire points & If you want to fire a heavy weapon team instead of one you may but the vehicle counts as open topped until the end of your opponents next turn?

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Would be hard to blast a lascannon from inside a chimera without popping open a hatch.

So perhaps have the 6 Lasguns as fire points & If you want to fire a heavy weapon team instead of one you may but the vehicle counts as open topped until the end of your opponents next turn?

Or shots to the rear armour count as -1 (or 2) AV

Che-Vito wrote:
Or shots to the rear armour count as -1 (or 2) AV

Eh, I think Open-Topped would make more sense. Reducing the rear AV could mean they are firing from the back hatch but wouldn't that basically make it a hull mounted weapon with 90* firing arc? I can't imagine how a weapon fired out the back could wind uo hitting something in front of it.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:
Or shots to the rear armour count as -1 (or 2) AV

Eh, I think Open-Topped would make more sense. Reducing the rear AV could mean they are firing from the back hatch but wouldn't that basically make it a hull mounted weapon with 90* firing arc? I can't imagine how a weapon fired out the back could wind uo hitting something in front of it.

Back hatch is open, allowing the insides to be more vulnerable if shot through the open hatch. But I agree, your solution is simpler.

You know, I never understood that part of the old rules. Yes, a door on top of the vehicle opens to let the passengers fire from the top. The TOP! We're not talking about an Ork Buggy or a Basilisk here. We're talking about an APC! Armored Personnel Carrier. Not "canvas topped people mover."

But that's getting excited about it. If the Land Raider can disgorged.... how many Space Marines? from the great giant doors on the FRONT and not count as Open Topped, then I don't see why the Chimera needs to count as Open Topped when a couple of guys pop up with a weapon to pop off a couple of rounds.

Well the marines are in power armor (at least) which is why it doesn't count as open topped. (Except in the rare case it might have scouts)

And the extra +1 to damage is to simulate the round going in through the top perhaps?

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Well the marines are in power armor (at least) which is why it doesn't count as open topped. (Except in the rare case it might have scouts)
And the extra +1 to damage is to simulate the round going in through the top perhaps?

Well good for the Marines, but is the inside of the Land Raider wearing Power Armor? What about a Rhino popping its top? Does it have special rules if its carrying Guardsmen? I would also like to know how a shot gets into the top under typical circumstances. Considering a Chimera is almost ten feet tall and the hatch is on the back half.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:OK, I'm a guard player, a long time guard player. I remember when you could fire half the models in your Chimera. I remember when we lost that and now it's sort of back.

And as much as I love my Chimera castles it's just a bit unfair and unfun. So... how about this?

(everything else is the same)

Fire points The Chimera has 1 fire point in the back that may be used by two models (or one heavy weapon team).

Lasguns For 5 points you may buy 6 lasguns (3 per side) with a 90 degree arc of fire.

What is it you don't like about the rule? I enjoy firing my autocannon + 3 Plasmaguns from the top hatch, and I think guard should be able to put out a withering hail of gunfire

apwill4765 wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:OK, I'm a guard player, a long time guard player. I remember when you could fire half the models in your Chimera. I remember when we lost that and now it's sort of back.

And as much as I love my Chimera castles it's just a bit unfair and unfun. So... how about this?

(everything else is the same)

Fire points The Chimera has 1 fire point in the back that may be used by two models (or one heavy weapon team).

Lasguns For 5 points you may buy 6 lasguns (3 per side) with a 90 degree arc of fire.

What is it you don't like about the rule? I enjoy firing my autocannon + 3 Plasmaguns from the top hatch, and I think guard should be able to put out a withering hail of gunfire

Does the HW team count as two firers? I don't use Chimeras, but I do know it has 5 fire points.

My problem with it is that the Chimera has six lasguns on the hull for the passengers to use (in the fluff), but now it just has five "fire points." I don't care if I would lose the ability to shoot Plasma and other weapons from the top, I want my god fluff back in my game! It's a simple, easy, and fun fix, nothing special, make it free.

Skinnattittar wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:OK, I'm a guard player, a long time guard player. I remember when you could fire half the models in your Chimera. I remember when we lost that and now it's sort of back.

And as much as I love my Chimera castles it's just a bit unfair and unfun. So... how about this?

(everything else is the same)

Fire points The Chimera has 1 fire point in the back that may be used by two models (or one heavy weapon team).

Lasguns For 5 points you may buy 6 lasguns (3 per side) with a 90 degree arc of fire.

What is it you don't like about the rule? I enjoy firing my autocannon + 3 Plasmaguns from the top hatch, and I think guard should be able to put out a withering hail of gunfire

Does the HW team count as two firers? I don't use Chimeras, but I do know it has 5 fire points.

My problem with it is that the Chimera has six lasguns on the hull for the passengers to use (in the fluff), but now it just has five "fire points." I don't care if I would lose the ability to shoot Plasma and other weapons from the top, I want my god fluff back in my game! It's a simple, easy, and fun fix, nothing special, make it free.

I didn't think of it this way, as I kind of keep my fluff and my game separate (spares me headaches), but yea, I can see why people would want 6 lasguns instead of other options. You could always shoot 5 lasguns out of the fire hatch and almost have what you like.

I play it that HWT are 2 models. So HWT + 3 PG would be 5 firers

HWT are one model.

Why not just have it so that on a to-hit roll of a 6 (or maybe a 5+), it hits the people who fired from the hatch instead?

apwill4765 wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:OK, I'm a guard player, a long time guard player. I remember when you could fire half the models in your Chimera. I remember when we lost that and now it's sort of back.

And as much as I love my Chimera castles it's just a bit unfair and unfun. So... how about this?

(everything else is the same)

Fire points The Chimera has 1 fire point in the back that may be used by two models (or one heavy weapon team).

Lasguns For 5 points you may buy 6 lasguns (3 per side) with a 90 degree arc of fire.

What is it you don't like about the rule? I enjoy firing my autocannon + 3 Plasmaguns from the top hatch, and I think guard should be able to put out a withering hail of gunfire

So do I, so do I. But it's kind of silly (the models have 7 fire points, not 5), it can be very overpowered (I think GW forgot they'd made vets troops) and make for dull games.

The counterbalance to the multiple fire points is that when the Chimera explodes, your troops inside are going to die.

Plus, if the troops inside are shooting then the vehicle is only moving 6" so it can be assaulted easier.

Also, an army shouldn't have that much trouble taking out Chimeras as they move forward. If you position your shooty units you should be able to get some side shots vs. AV10 on the Chimeras.

People move their Chimeras?

News to me.

I always use them as bunkers wtih my Valks and Vendettas moving ahead.

I think they were just made a tad too cheep points wise for what they can do. Raise the cost by 10 points and leave them as is.

Jayden63 wrote:I think they were just made a tad too cheep points wise for what they can do. Raise the cost by 10 points and leave them as is.

Can you quantify that please?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:People move their Chimeras?

News to me.

I always use them as bunkers wtih my Valks and Vendettas moving ahead.

That's less the fault of the Chimera, and more to do with the fact that GW hasn't written a good set of vehicle rules in 15 years...

Vladsimpaler wrote:Why not just have it so that on a to-hit roll of a 6 (or maybe a 5+), it hits the people who fired from the hatch instead?

Is this not a good idea or something?

.....

Really? Do people think that the Chimera is REALLY that overpowered??

I personally think its just fine what what it is, what its armed with, and what it can do.

@Vladsimpaler: Yes this is a bad idea. Because you are saying that with what should have been my most dead center shot at the tank I have managed instead to pop one or two rejects hanging out of the top hatch when I could have killed the vehicle AND it's occupants in the explosion.

I think mounting a heavy weapon on the BACK of a tank is kind of dumb... it is the equivalent of mooning somebody during a fist fight.

ComputerGeek01 wrote:@Vladsimpaler: Yes this is a bad idea. Because you are saying that with what should have been my most dead center shot at the tank I have managed instead to pop one or two rejects hanging out of the top hatch when I could have killed the vehicle AND it's occupants in the explosion.

I think mounting a heavy weapon on the BACK of a tank is kind of dumb... it is the equivalent of mooning somebody during a fist fight.

I'm not saying that at all, you're saying it. It's just like, you roll to hit. Then you roll another d6. On a 6 you hit dudes firing from the hatch. If you don't, then you roll to hurt the vehicle.

Makes a lot more sense than making the vehicle open-topped.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

ComputerGeek01 wrote:@Vladsimpaler: Yes this is a bad idea. Because you are saying that with what should have been my most dead center shot at the tank I have managed instead to pop one or two rejects hanging out of the top hatch when I could have killed the vehicle AND it's occupants in the explosion.

I think mounting a heavy weapon on the BACK of a tank is kind of dumb... it is the equivalent of mooning somebody during a fist fight.

I'm not saying that at all, you're saying it. It's just like, you roll to hit. Then you roll another d6. On a 6 you hit dudes firing from the hatch. If you don't, then you roll to hurt the vehicle.

Makes a lot more sense than making the vehicle open-topped.

So when I hit a Chimera I have a one in six chance of missing the Chimera, but I get to kill a Guardsmen instead? Or is this an option to take? Because if it is an option, I think it's more suited to being a rule for Open Topped vehicles, rather than the Chimera.

Rather than making them shooting from the hatch more vulnerable why not make the shooting unit less accurate. In real life shooting out of firing ports is less accurate due to reduced visibility and a reduced ability adjust the weapons aim. Make units firing out of a Chimera do so at -1BS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the idea of possibly hitting the guardsmen inside... isn't this a bit like missing the broad side of the barn?

Why hate on the Chimera with BS modifiers? Make it universal! But then begs the question, what about the weapon mounts? I mean, they are not much more stable a firing position (unless they are gyro-stabilized, or something akin to it) than pinning your rifle to a rail/firing point. Nah, too much complications. Besides, it is way off topic from the OP. Wasn't the original post about a 2 firing point open hatch with six lasgun exclusive firing points?

If we are to say that those points can only fire premounted lasguns (which makes sense from the fluff, the model, and time immemorial), then it should undoubtedly be free. Consider a unit of Ogryn stepping inside, or a unit of Stormtroopers. In both cases, occupants would have to use inferior weapons to what they are carrying, so these points are not full fire points, but rather occupant armed lasguns (they can only be used while the vehicle has the necessary number of occupants).

Skinnattittar wrote:

If we are to say that those points can only fire premounted lasguns (which makes sense from the fluff, the model, and time immemorial), then it should undoubtedly be free. Consider a unit of Ogryn stepping inside, or a unit of Stormtroopers. In both cases, occupants would have to use inferior weapons to what they are carrying, so these points are not full fire points, but rather occupant armed lasguns (they can only be used while the vehicle has the necessary number of occupants).

I can deal with that.

On rolling to hit the guardsmen in the hatch, there's lots of tanks you can shoot out of, lots of open-topped tanks, none of them have that rule. If you'd like to suggest it to replace open topped and fire point rules it would be better to start a new thread.