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Hey Everyone,

I'm Currently a 40k player.

I've been looking at other Wargames recently, and WarMachine/Hordes looks pretty interesting. I'm actually considering trading some of my Orks for some Circle of Orboros or Mercs. But before I jump into a new game, I would like to get some details from people who have at least experienced Warmachine or Hordes, if not BOTH games.
Any details or insight as to the quality of Hordes in general in regards to rules, balance, Fun, cost...etc would be greatly appreciated!!

If you like CCGs then you'll like WM or Hordes. WM and Hordes is a CCG with minis IMO.

Darkness wrote:If you like CCGs then you'll like WM or Hordes. WM and Hordes is a CCG with minis IMO.

A bit too reductive.

It's like Magic in that using models that complement one another is far more effective
than using a unit or model on its own. Games, even competitive play, boil down to eliminating
the other army's power piece, the warlock (Hordes) or warcaster (Warmachine).

I'm a Press Ganger (like GW's old Outriders), though, so I'm a bit biased.

Cost: You'll spend hundreds of dollars, just like 40k. You'll just spend it differently.

I play them both.

Warmachine is a lot more luck based than 40k. I don't mean that it doesn't require skill. That's entirely untrue. In fact, it requires more knowledge than 40k to play competitively. It's just that a lot of time the player who wins strategically still has to throw a 6 on 3 dice with one chance at a reroll to pull it out.

That is, a "sure thing", such as tactical mastery gives you, is a lot surer in 40k than in Warmachine. Take that as you will.

If you decide to start a Hordes faction I would wait a bit longer until they have settled on a final version of the rules.

Right now they are doing a complete rules revision, and one day your shiny model has great rules, and the next it has garbage rules when another update is released (yes I am talking about you Mulg). All the rules can be downloaded for free at their site btw, in case you did not know.

Another thing to consider: WM/Hordes tends to be much more "cutthroat" than WH/40K, and most of the diehard WM/Hordes tournament gamers seem to be the types that need to have their gameplay compensate for shortages in the pants, so it depends on the kind of games you expect to play. Do you want to play strangers? Just your friends or the people at your local store? Competitive/tournaments? Etc.

This might get dirty.


PLEASE DONT LET THIS THREAD GET DIRTY!



Both games are cool. WM is definetly more cutthroat but that may be a good thing. Depends on what you like.

I hate reading your posts with that faux David Blaine pic.

From my admittedly limited experience with Warmachine, it seemed a bit rock/paper/scissors and/or ultimate combo reliant.

Of course, 40K's "I GO YOU GO" setup (with first turn massacre potential) has always annoyed me too...

Anyway, has as been mentioned, both are good, and both are different enough that you should check them both out...

Warmachine has IGOUGO as well.

I know, it just seems more potentially devastating in 40K, with its proliferation of ranged weapons...

its far more then a card game with minis. i thought this when i saw it at first as well though so i can see the mistake. when you add dice to the game you add the random aspects that we all know.

the game is fast faced and competativly oriented. i was brought into the game with a rocky start and shown the "page 5" attitude early. coming from a casual 40k background i thought i wouldnt like it, but after playing it i got hooked. games take alot less time, the models are something different to paint, and the company listens to its fanbase a bit more then GW.

give it a try.

@OP: You should give WM/H a try. For a handful of bases to proxy out against the download rules, how bad could it be?

If you buy / trade models and keep it under $100, you can hardly go wrong with WM/H as something different (and it is different). As others note, WM is far more combo-oriented in a CCG sense, in that things are far more sequence-driven / order-dependent. Why PP players get defensive over that, is wierd, because it's simply how the game plays.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@OP: You should give WM/H a try. For a handful of bases to proxy out against the download rules, how bad could it be?

If you buy / trade models and keep it under $100, you can hardly go wrong with WM/H as something different (and it is different). As others note, WM is far more combo-oriented in a CCG sense, in that things are far more sequence-driven / order-dependent. Why PP players get defensive over that, is wierd, because it's simply how the game plays.

Have to agree with J.H.D.D. here - this is the truth, and it might take a bit of getting used to, but it certainly isn't a big deal, or a deal breaker.

But people seem to be a bit sensitive about it...

NO WE'RE NOT!

Faux David Blaine is win.

--------------



I'd just get a starter box and try the game out. The models are kick arse- that is a big reason why i play/collect WM/H


Its also a good break away from 40k every now and then.

RogueMarket wrote:
This might get dirty.


PLEASE DONT LET THIS THREAD GET DIRTY!



Both games are cool. WM is definetly more cutthroat but that may be a good thing. Depends on what you like.

Locally what I saw in the 15 minutes tha t I considered getting into Warmachine is that the best of the local Warmachine players make the worst of the Warhammer WAAC monkeys look positively pleasant.

If you like Lowest Common Denominator WAAC-jobs, Warmachine is the game for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:@OP: You should give WM/H a try. For a handful of bases to proxy out against the download rules, how bad could it be?

If you buy / trade models and keep it under $100, you can hardly go wrong with WM/H as something different (and it is different). As others note, WM is far more combo-oriented in a CCG sense, in that things are far more sequence-driven / order-dependent. Why PP players get defensive over that, is wierd, because it's simply how the game plays.

Have to agree with J.H.D.D. here - this is the truth, and it might take a bit of getting used to, but it certainly isn't a big deal, or a deal breaker.

But people seem to be a bit sensitive about it...

yeah, I have no idea why miniature gamers would get sensitive. No at all. Especially when they're playing the miniature game equivalent of Pokemon*.

*Gotta catch them all - get all of the new broken units and rin gup big combos.

Full disclosure - I tried Warmachine, bought a Khador force, didn't really like it all that much and have since sold off all my WM stuff.

It isn't that it was a bad game, just not a good game for me.

They're both decent games, but are not directly comparable. Warmachine is much more combo oriented, if Magic could be translated to a tabletop game, Warmachine would be the closest thing, although not directly comparable. 40k is closer to a traditional wargame.

Personally, for me, WM was something I enjoyed playing with friends, but, like Magic, would never play competitively. That said, it doesn't make it a bad game, and the new rules I've heard are an amazing improvement, but I haven't tried them out yet.

TBD wrote:If you decide to start a Hordes faction I would wait a bit longer until they have settled on a final version of the rules.

Right now they are doing a complete rules revision, and one day your shiny model has great rules, and the next it has garbage rules when another update is released (yes I am talking about you Mulg). All the rules can be downloaded for free at their site btw, in case you did not know.

Another thing to consider: WM/Hordes tends to be much more "cutthroat" than WH/40K, and most of the diehard WM/Hordes tournament gamers seem to be the types that need to have their gameplay compensate for shortages in the pants, so it depends on the kind of games you expect to play. Do you want to play strangers? Just your friends or the people at your local store? Competitive/tournaments? Etc.

That's really strange. One of the local players told me he had the unfortunate experience of playing 40k and regretted it because of the constant rule changes every 6 months, unlike Warmachine, which he applauded for keeping a consistent rule set.

Anyways, I tried my first game of Warmachine yesterday, some of the local players were nice enough to stop in the middle of their game and give me a quick demo. We used a couple of starter sets which included one Warcaster and 3 Warjacks. I ended up getting lucky I guess and killing his Caster in 1 or 2 turns, so the game ended up only takin about 30min, including all the rules explanations. Overall it seems pretty cool, I can see some elements of MTG, Heroclix and Mechwarrior minitaures in there.

I played a lot of Magic before I really got into 40k. Awesome system, and well-deserved success.

Tho I sure don't miss the prices and spending. People who complain about GW pricing, I invite to play Magic for a few years and compare costs.

It's a game wide rules revision. All armies updated simultaneously.

Apples and oranges really. They both hav cool moels, and that is were the similarity ends.

40k is about vast cinematic battles with lots of models and buckets of dice. It is about sweeping action and number of dice thrown at the right time.

Wm is about buildng combos and synergy and orchestrating the activation of your models in the right sequence. It is defnitely the love child of M:TG and a skimish miniatures game.

Wm is a deeper game then 40K and more complex as far as figuring out all the possible combos,army builds, and synergies. Just changing the leader of the army ( a single warcaster model) can totally change the whole function of whatever models you have gathered in the army.

Warmachine is all about options, list building and stratagizing. It is a theorymachinists game. It rewards aggression and smart model movement/placement lik no other game.

I like each for different reasons and see neither as a substitute fore the other. They scratch different itches...

Darkzephyr wrote:That's really strange. One of the local players told me he had the unfortunate experience of playing 40k and regretted it because of the constant rule changes every 6 months, unlike Warmachine, which he applauded for keeping a consistent rule set.

Hordes in in the middle of its MkII beta and will be until July. Warmachine had one last year.

The closest GW comparison is probably the 'Ravening Hordes' period a few years back, except all the Hordes armies will be set by this July.

[edit] cut and paste demons.

George Spiggott wrote:

TBD wrote:That's really strange. One of the local players told me he had the unfortunate experience of playing 40k and regretted it because of the constant rule changes every 6 months, unlike Warmachine, which he applauded for keeping a consistent rule set.

Hordes in in the middle of its MkII beta and will be until July. Warmachine had one last year.

The closest GW comparison is probably the 'Ravening Hordes' period a few years back, except all the Hordes armies will be set by this July.

Nice case of misquoting here

I have played 40k since 96 and i am currently considering selling/trading a couple of armies for Warmachine models. I really enjoy WM and so far have looked forward to every game ive played(except for the Demo with the ADD kid)

I like both.

However, I much prefer playing in 40k tournaments to Warmachine tournaments.

Warmachine is a much more...*tense* game. In that you're engaged all the time, and a single slip-up can be much more devastating. The order in which you move your models is hugely important. It also demands taking risks - more hinges on a single die roll in Warmachine than in 40k, most of the time.

40k is more pleasant and relaxing to play. Warmachine is fast, furious and aggressive but explicitly WAAC.

I enjoy them both. I do like that it's possible to have a fairly decent size (35pt) Warmachine force for around $100, whilst a 40K army is going to run $300-500.

I've gone through several armies in 40k and WM and Warmachine is the game for me.

Both have their niche in the mini game arena. Each play differently and thus have different appeals.

Can't compare the games to each other as the offering is just too different. The common point is there are models and throw dice.

At least if I give a negative opinion of 40k it is because I've actually tried the game and played it for a time. In fact the group I play WM with do bash 40k but all are former long time players the became dissatisfied with it. THe complaining is based off actual experience instead making uninformed comments that show a lack of understand.

I also use one of the various Army Builder programs out there for free to construct my gaming lists.

The two games can coexist.

Although I prefer warmachine over warhammer right now, there warhammer does have some advantages over warmachine rules-wise.

At its core, warhammer suffers less from analysis paralysis since there's only so many things you can do with a unit once it's on the table, and those things are laid out in front of you. This can make it easier for new players to learn, although sadly it doesn't offset a player's inexperience or his lack of models.

With warmachine, there's more things that a unit can do on its turn, which can really intimidate a new player rules wise.

That's why you run a timer on them once in a while to just force them to make decisions.