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I am thinking about resurrecting my Eldar for local tournaments (1850) and would like a critique.

210 Eldrad
205 5 Dire Avengers w/Wave Serpent, Brightlance, Spirit Stones
205 5 Dire Avengers w/Wave Serpent, Brightlance, Spirit Stones
205 5 Dire Avengers w/Wave Serpent, Brightlance, Spirit Stones
225 5 Fire Dragons w/Wave Serpent, Brightlance, Spirit Stones
225 5 Fire Dragons w/Wave Serpent, Brightlance, Spirit Stones
160 Fire Prism w/Holo-field, Spirit Stones
160 Fire Prism w/Holo-field, Spirit Stones
160 Fire Prism w/Holo-field, Spirit Stones

This comes out to 1755 and I have no idea what to do from here.

Why bother taking eldrad in this kind of list? There really isnt a lot for him to do, you would be better served by a minimal farseer with runes.

If you still want to take him, fill out one of the DA squads and give eldrad a home there.



Sliggoth

Whoo hooo.... max serpents, min infantry... and... a list that sucks at crushing your opponent and great at forcing draw games.

I played against something just like this one year at hard boyz, it looked scary until we all realized.... what do you do after you kill a few transports.... not a whole lot.

Spirit stones are a waste, you have nothing that needs to rush forward and get in an important spot, eldrad can't really guide anything, if you doom something you dont have enough guns to make it worthwhile, eldritch storm... right... and you got nothing that needs fortune.. Yes eldrad does not fit this list.

Drop the stones, drop eldrad, do what sliggoth said. Um... fill out those squads, add something that can get some assaulting to liven up the game. Eldar without flamers isn't too impressive either.

Well, I second what has been said before.
I'd drop the Prisms' holofields and stones and take the points to max-out the DA units, adding Exarchs with blade storm.
A Doomseer will suffice for this list.

This is a rather poorly constructed list IMO. If your transports are taken out, which there is a good chance, you're done. Bright lances on all the WS is a waste especially because if you do pop all the transports (miraculously) you have nothing to shot at troops inside the vehicle except for bright lances and blasts from the FP.

If you wanted to keep the list something like this I would go with:

faseer w/ rowarding, rowitnessing, stones, fortune guide - 150
farseer w/ rowitnessing, stones fortune guide - 135

DA (8) exarch, dual cats, bladestorm - 128
WS w/ EML, stones - 130
DA (8) exarch, dual cats, bladestorm - 128
WS w/ BL, stones - 140
Guardian Jetbikes(3) s. cannon - 76

Fire Dragons (6) - 96
WS w/ EML, stones - 130
Fire Dragons(6) - 96
WS w/ BL, stones - 140

Fire prism w/ holofields, stones - 160
Fire prism w/ holofields, stones - 160
Fire prism w/ holofields, stones - 160

Total - 1829

Jetbikes are just sort of filler, had 97 points left but they are good for some JSJ and last minute objective rush.

In the latter list, the 2nd Farseer seems redundant.
What is she going to fortune?

Farseers stay with DA and fortune guide them.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Farseers stay with DA and fortune guide them.

Fortuning DA makes only sense if you take a combo like this:

10 DA incl. Exarch w/ pw, ss, blade storm, defend

Such a unit is rather resilient in cc.
Add Yriel and it can dramatically increase its damage potential in cc.

It does stand to reason that they will be shot at by something the turn after does it not? I understand where you're coming from though. I personally have never ran that setup on DA though.

I battled a unit like this (Farseer with fortune and 10 DA as above) in a battle last week.
My Chaos Termies incl. winged DP had a hard time taking this unit down.

LOTS of pts spent on unnecessary stuff. Drop BLs on Dragon Serpents and take Cannons instead. They should be moving flat out so no point in wasting an extra 35pts when you wont get to shoot. Also think that BLs on the DA squads are rather useless but some people seems to like them...

Taking naked Prisms will save you 135 pts, with 60" range holo should not be needed. ATLEAST not on more than one prism.
Something like this:

210 Eldrad
185 5 Dire Avengers w/Wave Serpent, Scatter, Spirit Stones
185 5 Dire Avengers w/Wave Serpent, Scatter, Spirit Stones
175 5 Dire Avengers w/Wave Serpent, Scatter,
175 5 Dire Avengers w/Wave Serpent, Scatter,

Elites:
190 5 Fire Dragons w/Wave Serpent, Cannons, Spirit Stones
190 5 Fire Dragons w/Wave Serpent, Cannons, Spirit Stones
190 5 Fire Dragons w/Wave Serpent, Cannons, Spirit Stones

HS
115 Fire Prism
115 Fire Prism
115 Fire Prism

Looks better, but the DA units are just used for scoring purposes and do not contribute seriously to shooting.
I'd take 3 full squads with blade storm and replace Eldrad by a Doomseer with both runes.

I would most likely do the same, but I assumed that the OP wanted to use DAVUs only...
A fortuned flat out moving serpent is pretty much impossible to destroy even less likely to take down two fortuned flat out moving serpents, which means that the Dragons will most likely reach their target.

Thanks for the info and critique. I first learned to play 40k with the Eldar but they have been shelved for a little while since i've been playing orks lately.

As such, I am coming back to them kind of a newb. The beginning list is just something to give me a starting point. I can see the pros and cons for some of the options listed.

About the only thing that would remain the same is the heavy slots. I have 3 Fire Prisms available. I do have some Dark Reapers and 1 War Walker available but I don't see them really fitting into a mechanized list.

I like the look of TBHG's list and might use that as a new starting point once I get home and figure up some points.

I've tried looking for some tactical tips on how to use Fire Dragons other than zooming towards a vehicle, piling out, shooting it dead then waiting to die from the assault that's almost assuredly to happen afterwards.

Would having only 3 Fire Prisms and the 2 BL Serpents be enough to handle heavy LandRaider/Battlewagon-KFF armies? In my area they seem to be running rampant.

I will post a re-worked list later tonight. I would like to have some flexibility in the list and just have to learn how to use it. So would it be worth considering taking out the Fire Dragons and subbing in a Warlock squad for the Farseers? Would they be just as good taking out vehicles as the Fire Dragons? I know they could survive a combat slightly longer and would also do duty as a mudpit unit.

If you did that you'd have to play the list a little differently. You really need to think of shot priority; what you're shooting with, what you're shooting at, and the order of shooting. So say you pop the transport with dragons, shoot a blast from the eml (assuming you're playing with the list I posted.) and a fire prism to soften the targeted unit considerably. Try to maneuver to where you will have cover form the other players units while still being able to target the enemy vehicle. A lot of things come down positioning and playing ahead of your opponent. If you plan ahead and prioritize things then you have a far better chance at winning.

Eldrad is kinda a waste of point IMO in this army. A regular farseer does the same. Personally I think Yriel would be a better choice.

That said, I've used Eldrad in mech lists with a lot of success but I usually run him in Falcon with holofields and 5 dire avengers. This flying scoring battle bunker is basically unkillabe to shooting with fortune on the tank.

i also run warlocks with destructor and storm guardians with flamers though, and 10 man fire dragons squads. So there is a lot more synergy with Eldrad.

Agian in this list, i think you are just giving away points.

As promised, a revised list.

Farseer, Spirit Stones, Doom & Guide
Farseer, Spirit Stones, Doom & Guide

10 Dire Avengers + Exarch w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
- Wave Serpent w/ML
10 Dire Avengers + Exarch w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
- Wave Serpent w/ML
10 Dire Avengers
- Wave Serpent w/BL

5 Fire Dragons
- Wave Serpent w/ML
5 Fire Dragons
- Wave Serpent w/ML

Fire Prism w/Holofield
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

This list is 1839, which leaves 11 points to play with. I was thinking of giving the Farseers Singing Spears to add a little more punch to the DA squads they'd be riding with.

I think a doomseer with runes of warding, and possibly runes of witnessing is all you really need.

Try this.

Doom Seer with Runes of Warding & Witnessing (for Tyranids) and Singing Spear
6 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ DB flamer & crack shot
--- Wave Serpent w/ EML & Shuriken Cannon (move 12, fire the shuriken cannon & frag round of EML)
6 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ DB flamer & crack shot
--- Wave Serpent w/ EML & Shuriken Cannon
10 Dire Avengers + Exarch w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
10 Dire Avengers + Exarch, w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
10 Storm Guardians 2 x flamers
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
Fire Prism w/Holofields
Fire Prism w/Holofields
Fire Prism w/Holofields

Should be 1847

I show it at 1827 (assuming the 6 Fire Dragons means 5 + 1 Exarch).

I know its hotly debated, but I'd vote to drop the holofields on the fire prisms.

I run two right now, and the way I see it is, I can't see myself spending 70 points in defensive upgrades for two units that fire 1 gun.

I feel like the upgrade is far better on Falcons, who are carrying around a scoring unit of avengers, which can be used to actually capture an objective, as opposed to just contest.

In sazzels list, that 105 points could afford another doom seer, so that more than one target a turn could be doomed

I run a different list, almost always eldrad, but then I have banshees or harlequins. I rarely run more than a single fire prism, I love using 2 wraithlords. But in this list... I can't see the need for more than a single doom per turn, there really isnt enough fire power to really take advantage of it. On the other hand, when you use mellee (banshees) and shooting a squad or two of dire avengers and storm guardians, you can easily wipe out two large units of whatever every turn, and thats when double dooming is great, and when you are double dooming, you are usually better off with eldrad, who in a pinch can tie up an entire squad by himself. Along with wraithlords that can both shoot and tie up units until your banshees are ready to wipe out another squad.

I prefer a 70/30 shooty/mellee mix, either shoot down your opponents shooting or tie it up with mellee. You can shoot and he can not... its harder to play, but if you do pull it off you can get some serious unbalanced wins, which is great in a tournament. If you are doing a pure shooting list, I say put on holofields, your opponent has to either ignore the really hard to kill fire prisms, or focus all his fire power on them, either way you get something out of the deal. If you aren't sure if you can run without holofields, I say run them, if you are pretty sure you can get away without fieldiing that wargear, then do it, you can take the saved points to buy another unit. Its all about knowing your game, and where you play.

akaean wrote:I know its hotly debated, but I'd vote to drop the holofields on the fire prisms.

I run two right now, and the way I see it is, I can't see myself spending 70 points in defensive upgrades for two units that fire 1 gun.

I feel like the upgrade is far better on Falcons, who are carrying around a scoring unit of avengers, which can be used to actually capture an objective, as opposed to just contest.

In sazzels list, that 105 points could afford another doom seer, so that more than one target a turn could be doomed

I ran mechdar at the last ardboyz and had some success by having n Avatar run up behind the tanks, you have very fragile troops so a guy that makes your weak squads auto rally and enable them to limp back into their transports to score later in the game is important. To heck with the theme, if you play eldar and you don't have an avatar your missing out on the best model in the book for his points.

Like others said the maxed out, tricked out squads of dire avengers are your work horses, unfortunately they are also your scoring troops so be careful. I got 3 major victories in the second round of ardboyz by playing extremely aggressive, took a lot of chances and got some lucky match-ups, I took a ten man fire dragon squad in a serpent and a 6 man FD squad in a falcon, some say 10 is overkill but I beg to differ, what else are you going to kill hard troops like terminators/oblits/nobz with if your prisms start getting shaken? The 10 man squad was a good investment, always got killed but always killed at least 2x their points and then some.

As for tactics if your playing armies with superior numbers fan your army out while deploying to try to get your opponent do the same then on your first turn jet your army into one of the flanks and start rolling up the line, you never want to take the whole enemy army on at once with eldar, thats like throwing dagger at a cement wall..

Guide is not worth 40 pts in your list. I would either take fortune or simply take a lone doom seer. RoWard is too good to not take and if you decide to invest heavily in your seers so is RoWit.
Also, your dragon serpents need stones.

Doom Seer with Runes of Warding & Witnessing (for Tyranids) and Singing Spear
6 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ DB flamer & crack shot
--- Wave Serpent w/ EML & Shuriken Cannon (move 12, fire the shuriken cannon & frag round of EML)
6 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ DB flamer & crack shot
--- Wave Serpent w/ EML & Shuriken Cannon
10 Dire Avengers + Exarch w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
10 Dire Avengers + Exarch, w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
10 Storm Guardians 2 x flamers
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
Fire Prism w/Holofields
Fire Prism w/Holofields
Fire Prism w/Holofields

This list is absolutely solid.
You might drop the extra shuriken cannons from the Serpents to give stones to the Prisms.

I'm guessing that in Sazzlefrats list, the Farseer rides with the Storm Guardians and just run around Dooming squads?

wuestenfux wrote:

Doom Seer with Runes of Warding & Witnessing (for Tyranids) and Singing Spear
6 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ DB flamer & crack shot
--- Wave Serpent w/ EML & Shuriken Cannon (move 12, fire the shuriken cannon & frag round of EML)
6 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ DB flamer & crack shot
--- Wave Serpent w/ EML & Shuriken Cannon
10 Dire Avengers + Exarch w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
10 Dire Avengers + Exarch, w/dual ASC, Bladestorm
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
10 Storm Guardians 2 x flamers
--- Wave Serpent w/ELM & Shuriken Cannon
Fire Prism w/Holofields
Fire Prism w/Holofields
Fire Prism w/Holofields

This list is absolutely solid.
You might drop the extra shuriken cannons from the Serpents to give stones to the Prisms.

While its an ok cockie cutter start its not that impressive imo. Why would you put stones on the prisms when you dont even have it on the serpents. He is also wasting pts on dragon exarchs and expensive weapons on the dragon serpents and holo fields for the prisms. Prisms should be kept at long range and avoid fire. A stunned prisms is a useless prisms holo field or no holofield...

Sazzlefrats is not a supporter of spirit stones for Eldar vehicles.
This is a policy which I can follow since in toto it amounts to 80 pts in this army.

Warboss Urtyzod wrote:I'm guessing that in Sazzlefrats list, the Farseer rides with the Storm Guardians and just run around Dooming squads?

Doomseer can go anywhere, but always either attached to a squad if on foot, or riding in a vehicle. Depends mostly on where I think he'll be safest.

wuestenfux wrote:Sazzlefrats is not a supporter of spirit stones for Eldar vehicles.
This is a policy which I can follow since in toto it amounts to 80 pts in this army.

Wuestenfux, you got it right :-) Most of the time in a shooty list, you want to play keep away, you aren't trying to shove waveserpents down someones throat, so stones don't really give you anything. That being said, if I run banshees, their serpent will have stones nearly all the time.

I can see the reason for not taking stones on troop serpents but why would you buy stones for banshees but not for the dragons? The further away you destroy the LR the farther the TH&SS will have to walk ect...

Ok, after re-reading some of this and thinking about a few things here is a new list.

Eldrad Ulthran

10 Dire Avengers, Exarch, dual ASC, Bladestorm
- Wave Serpent, TL-SC, SC
10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers, Warlock w/Enhance
- Wave Serpent, TL-SC, SC
5 Guardian Jetbikes w/1 SC

10 Howling Banshees, Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatics
- Wave Serpent, TL-SL, SC, Stones
5 Fire Dragons
- Wave Serpent TL-SL, Stones

Wraithlord, BL, EML
Fire Prism, Holofield
3 War Walkers - all SL

This comes out to 1846. It's multiple threats, multiple "job" redundancy, it's fast and versatile. I think it'd take me a few years just to figure out how to play it.