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Space Wolves;

(100) Rune Priest - JotWW, Storm Caller

(190) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, MotW, Rhino

(190) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, MotW, Rhino

(190) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, MotW, Rhino

(175) 9 Grey Hunters - Meltagun, MotW, Rhino

(150) Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta, Dreadnought CCW, Drop Pod

(150) Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Drop Pod

(150) Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Drop Pod

(140) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader

(140) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader

(215) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader, Razorback with Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
-----------------
1850

Rune Priest rides in the Rhino with the pack of 9 Grey Hunters.

58 Infantry, 12 Vehicles
20 Kill Points, 4 Scoring Units

Well I would say this is a pretty picture perfect list with maybe one or two exceptions.

1) First up, psychic powers for your Rune Priest. Living Lightning is for all intents and purposes an unlimited ranged Autocannon and can be awesome out of the top of a Rhino, another to consider would be Storm Caller as you can give your Rhinos all Cover Saves.

2) I would actually consider dropping the Razorback and replacing it with a Drop Pod with Death Wind Launcher or use the points to buy Mark of the Wulfen for the Grey Hunter Units so they aren't completely nude in Close Combat.

3) One thin you may want to keep in mind is that your Dreadnoughts are going to be dropping in one by one unless you get some more Drop Pods. I know this idea may sound crazy, but you could drop a Missile Launcher Long Fang from all of the Units and the Razorback and buy 3 Deathwind Drop Pods. Now you have something of a triple threat for your opponent. The Dreadnoughts on turn one followed by Drop Pods one must kill especially if you want Horde Control.

4) You mentioned Drop Podding the Wolf Guard with the Rune Priest, that could work amazingly with Jaws of the World especially as you could precision strike and wipe out a Tyranid's big nasties in one fell swoop. I usually try that myself and it works wonders; however, the unit is usually gone by the second turn from Counter Attacks.

Overall I like it, best of luck and good hunting!

Thats a solid list agree i with Unholy_Martyr on almost everything but it feels like a waste to see a unit of Wolf guard not made for cc all the combi's may work with your Rune priest leading it but (combi weapons only have one shot not really the shooting units weapon of choice) i like keeping a Rune priest back with Greyhunters for objective games. GH's with MotW will increase your ability to cc MEQ's by alot. As for psy powers murderous hurricane is also a great anti-horde weapon ive used it and have wiped out alot with it and it slows the unit down cant ask for much more. But other then that looks good.

Can I take a drop pod for a Long Fangs Pack and have them deploy on the table as normal, not in their transport, and have the Drop Pod come down empty?

TakeABow wrote:Can I take a drop pod for a Long Fangs Pack and have them deploy on the table as normal, not in their transport, and have the Drop Pod come down empty?

Yes, classic SM trick for optimizing the drop pod assault.

And this is a solid list. I'd hate to face it with my tyranids.

Ok cool.

So the question is; better to:

Replace the Rhino for the Wolf Guard with Drop Pod

-or-

Replace the Long Fangs' Razorback with one? (And get 5 points free to give somebody Melta bombs)?

Drop Pod the Wolf Guard with the Rune Priest

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Drop Pod the Wolf Guard with the Rune Priest

Care to explain your reasoning on this one?

As I stated before, you can maximize a Rune Priest with Jaws of the World Wolf, especially against Tyranids. Additionally, you will have such an intense thorn in the side of your enemy that they cannot ignore it, drawing fire from your other units that are coming down/ crossing the board. In this instance, Storm Caller would be KEY as you garner a cover save as well as counting in cover in terms of assaults.

Yea if your gonna drop something unholy mart is right but watch out they will soon be a major target and will prop be killed fairly quickly.

The other option would be to have my third drop pod be empty, and I get to drop two dreads where they would be most effective, and get to keep my JotWW mobile in a Rhino. I don't really like the idea of dropping something as powerful as a psyker later on in a game, every turn he is on the table he gets to do something, vs being on the table for only a turn or two (even if he gets to JotWW at maximum effectiveness once). I don't want him to be a suicide unit if I can help it.

Hmmm thats not bad but you may lose your dreads fairly quickly with all the mech lists and melta guns it wont be exactly that hard. If you are fighting MEQ's they wont even leave the rhino just fire the melta guns out the hatch. But isnt bad i prefer to use ranged dreads as they seem to do better for me and your wolf guards are killing me idk you have the potential of so much cc pain and i feel your list is wasting it. Rune priest are good in cc dont under estimate them in it. The runic weapon is such a great weapon.

I don't really want to invest that many points into the wolf guard to give them special CCWs. I would rather have more of them than have them souped up with weapons, most of the time. I suppose I could make them regular Grey Hunters and save some points, but they don't get combi-weapons which would reduce the versatility of that rhino greatly.

Your dreads are not optimized for hunting vechicles. Why droppod them?

This is just a personal preference of mine, but I like to add a Cyclone terminator WG to my missile long fangs That would up your missles to 21 missiles a turn. With 3 squads of LF's though, it might be tough. Youd have to drop at least one of the dreads to get the FOC slot and the points. But, again, that is just a personal preference of mine.

tokugawa wrote:Your dreads are not optimized for hunting vechicles. Why droppod them?

So they don't have to waddle all the way across the board to get involved. I'd rather plop them down right where I want them to lay down assault cannon fire or charge into a unit I want to tie up. Should I replace one of the Assault Cannons with a Multi-Melta? Or Both?


Taking a few Cyclone Missile Launcher Terminators would be a neat idea. Three of them is harsh on the points though, would require me to take 15 long fangs and pay for terminator and cyclone upgrades. Then again, the sheer increase in firepower might be worth it. 21 Missiles is getting borderline Ridiculous. I want to see how the mathcraft works out to that end.

I could pull it off, but it is just too many points. I would have to drop the dreads from the list, and even then I would be looking at a silly amount of wolf guard. On the other hand, it might be worth it to see about taking the last wolf guard model for that squad to get up to 10, and then have him join one of the long fangs units. To do that, I would need to drop two combi weapons and switch the razorback to a drop pod.

If I don't add the guy in though, I can just swap the razorback out for a drop pod and get one more combi weapon or melta bombs somewhere.

Have you actually played the list. I'm bought and am in the process of building an army that has a lot of similarities to what you've posted. I've listhammered some problems with the list, but I've not had the opportunity to put it on the table yet.

^ No I haven't. I'm considering getting into SW, and debating over what to buy. I'm too cheap to buy stuff I don't intend to play with (at least for now - I don't think I could go too long without buying some Thunderwolf Cavalry models). I have been playing with some of my friends marines as "counts-as" SW lately, and its been too much fun. I played 40K a long time ago with SW and eventually sold my dudes, although in hindsight I should have kept 'em. Then again, I was young and horrible at assembly and painting, so perhaps nothing worth keeping was lost.

It's an interesting list. I'd like to see a battle report if you have one

Well, I havent run 3 squads, but I have run one with a cyclone in it, and it was pretty amazing. 7 krak missiles is a lot of hurt to MEQ's and 7 frags is just brutal on swarms. The downside is that thy become a REAL hot target. Thats ~200 pts of awesome that your opponent cant ignore.

Caboose wrote:Well, I havent run 3 squads, but I have run one with a cyclone in it, and it was pretty amazing. 7 krak missiles is a lot of hurt to MEQ's and 7 frags is just brutal on swarms. The downside is that thy become a REAL hot target. Thats ~200 pts of awesome that your opponent cant ignore.

That is kind of my strategy actually~ I want to make my opponent's target priority really hard for them, with my power spread out and hard to handle all at once. Putting Cyclone TDA Wolf Guard guys in with the Long Fangs might make them TOO juicy of targets (they are pretty juicy already).


@ Battle Report, well I will be able to do some counts-as reports here soon I think, but I won't get my own models onto the table for a while (but there will probably be a Painting and Modeling blog as I build up).

One thing to consider when adding those Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launchers is that you would need a total of 15 Wolf Guard in at least 2 Separate Units so I think that is rather cost prohibitive...Not to mention, two more missiles for 63 Points just simply isn't worth it.

In terms of dropping a Psyker and running the risk of losing him, this is my Njal Drop Pod list that has garnered me some success:

H.Q.
Njal
Terminator Armor -270

Elites
Wolf Guard x5
1) Terminator Armor: Power Fist, Assault Cannon
2) Terminator Armor: Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
3) Terminator Armor: Standard
4) Combi-weapon, Frost Blade
5) Mark of the Wulfen
Drop Pod(Death Wind Launcher) -300

Dreadnought
Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod -150

Troops:
Grey Hunters x10
2x Melta, Power Fist, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod -225

Grey Hunters x10
2x Melta, Power Fist, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod -225

Grey Hunters x6
Flamer, Mark of the Wulfen, Razorback -145

Heavy Support:
Long Fangs
4x Missile Launchers, Razorback with Twin Linked Lascannons -190

Total: 1505 Points

Njal and the Dreadnought Drop Pod in about 18" From the enemy and just pour on the fire. Sometimes I bring them in closer just for harassments sake and if I know they're going to survive for a while. This distracts almost the entire army for 2 turns while I just plink away from the other side of the board. Out of the 6 games I played with this list, I've lost Njal 2 times, once after he took down 3 Killa Kans, 2 Big Meks and about 15 Boyz (Big Meks using Jaws of the World Wolf, Killa Kans from Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane for the Boyz), the second time was against Mech Vets after being on the receiving end of 4 or 5 Melta Guns.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:One thing to consider when adding those Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launchers is that you would need a total of 15 Wolf Guard in at least 2 Separate Units so I think that is rather cost prohibitive...Not to mention, two more missiles for 63 Points just simply isn't worth it.

In terms of dropping a Psyker and running the risk of losing him, this is my Njal Drop Pod list that has garnered me some success:

[~ army list]

Njal and the Dreadnought Drop Pod in about 18" From the enemy and just pour on the fire. Sometimes I bring them in closer just for harassments sake and if I know they're going to survive for a while. This distracts almost the entire army for 2 turns while I just plink away from the other side of the board. Out of the 6 games I played with this list, I've lost Njal 2 times, once after he took down 3 Killa Kans, 2 Big Meks and about 15 Boyz (Big Meks using Jaws of the World Wolf, Killa Kans from Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane for the Boyz), the second time was against Mech Vets after being on the receiving end of 4 or 5 Melta Guns.

I dunno if I have enough points to spare on Njal, although he is quite a bit scarier than a typical Rune Priest, which might explain your success with him. He comes down with the TDA wolf Guard?

Updated the OP with some changes. I think it makes the list better without sacrificing much.

I drop Njal with the whole Wolf Guard unit, makes the biggest headache in the world with all the fire they spit out.

In terms of finding points for Njal, you could do something similar to the following:

(270) Njal -Terminator Armor

(190) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, Rhino

(190) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, Rhino

(190) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, Rhino

(150) Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Drop Pod

(150) Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Drop Pod

(214) 8 Wolf Guard - 2x Combi-Melta, 3x Combi-Plasma 2x Combi-Flamer, Drop Pod

(175) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader, Drop Pod

(140) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader

(175) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader, Drop Pod.
------------------------
Total: 1844

You still maintain 15 Missile Launchers, you now have 3 Drop Pods coming in on the first turn and you have Njal. Granted you sacrificed one of the 4 Grey Hunter units; however, I feel that you've gained quite a bit with the modifications here. In fact, I would be tempted to do something similar to the following:

(270) Njal -Terminator Armor

(205) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino

(205) 10 Grey Hunters - 2x Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen,Rhino

(130) 6 Grey Hunters - Flamer, Razorback

(150) Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Drop Pod

(150) Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Drop Pod

(249) 8 Wolf Guard - 2x Combi-Melta, 3x Combi-Plasma 2x Combi-Flamer, Power Fist, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod

(175) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader, Drop Pod

(140) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader

(175) 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader, Drop Pod.
------------------------
Total: 1849

I prefer this setup as you can have a solid fire base between the Long Fangs, Razorbacks and Grey Hunters while your assault element is 2 Grey Hunter Packs, 2 Dreadnoughts and your Drop Pod of Pain. You'll have a balanced force with some points that can hit back in close combat.

I'll have to think about this. Seems interesting. I prefer the first list I think. MotW is good,

In a smaller game I can see Njal wreaking more havoc than he would in a larger one, simply because more firepower is trained on him at once. That said (and Njal is AWESOME), I have to decide whether or not Njal is better than a regular Rune Priest and a whole extra scoring unit of Grey Hunters with a Rhino.

I've been playing with the Termie Cyclone WG in my single squad of LF at 1500, and I love him. The extra two shots are usually gold, and they're particularly nice on turns when I need to move, like in Dawn of War. I don't think it's worth totally revamping your list to have 15 WG, but since you've got a good--sized squad already, I'd definitely suggest scrounging the points for one or two of them to lead one or two of the LF units.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:
1) First up, psychic powers for your Rune Priest. Living Lightning is for all intents and purposes an unlimited ranged Autocannon and can be awesome out of the top of a Rhino, another to consider would be Storm Caller as you can give your Rhinos all Cover Saves.

Could someone explain this statement about Storm Caller to me?

The codex says, "....Until the beginning of the Rune Priest's next turn, he and all friendly squads within 6" benefit from a 5+ cover save."

It doesn't say anything about granting vehicles obscure status (IE, see the codex entry for the KFF), and it doesn't even mention units (which vehicles are), but specifically grants 5+ cover saves to squads...which only infantry can be. If it was "all friendly units within 6" benefit from..." I could see rhinos getting a cover save, but it doesn't.

Anyone?

Vehicles can come in squadrons too, though that woudn't help individual Rhinos. Except for this:

SW errata (from the front of the FAQ):

Page 37, Storm Caller, replace the last sentence
with:
[…] he and all friendly units within 6" benefit
from a 5+ cover save.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m800008a_FAQ_SpaceWolves_Jan2010

A squad is not the same as a squadron. One refers to infantry, one to vehicles (even in real life).

Although, its irrelevant because of the FAQ - thanks for the link!!

I thought about the same thing and found this post although not GW sanctioned made alot of sense to me.


By Itcamfromthedeep from Warseer

Squad does not equal unit, because there's no rule to say that it is. Sometimes this means that rules stop making any sense at all. Quite a few rules become unresolvable. However, we at Rules Forum don't let RaI get in the way of a good RaW debate. The punch line is that hopefully at the end of the RaW debate we can all sit back, say: "well that's pretty dumb", and go back to playing it like good sportsmen.

Vehicles don't get a cover save unless they're obscured. I'm convinced that that's what the rules say. That doesn't say anything about how I'll play it, because I'm also convinced that Smart Missile Systems are technically allowed to shoot at embarked passengers through the hull of their transport.

My guess at RaI is that "squad" and "unit" are completely interchangeable. Sometimes that doesn't make sense according to a real-world interpretation of "squad", but I blame that on the abysmal mechanics GW comes up with.

Also, my guess at RaI is that vehicles can take advantage of a Storm Caller cover save, because Storm Caller calls a storm that is intended to obscure things. The effect is fairly self-explanatory.

Although thats in the FAQ the point here is they/we should assume unit,squad, pack etc. are interchangeable. Inless otherwise stated it doesnt affect some things such as some of the Space wolves psy powers.