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ok we where playing a small round 1200 point battle me with sm and friend with tyranids...

i had been doing well killing most of his lesser units fast such as his squad of gargoyles and ripper swarms with only the loss of 2 assualt marines...

my biggest problem was his trygon prime which popped up next to a tactical squad and behind some vanguard vets and my commander.

after taking out all of that space marine squad for 1 wound out of 6 which he could regenerate he went after my commander who i felt could kill him(commander is Cato sicarius) only to find even if he did use the "special apparent instant death rule which we misinturpretted i think because it would have been a game saver but because of toughness he could only die if he rolled 1, i was pritty much screwed after that and conceded defeat because his HQ would hardly take a hit from my land raider or itwould but it saves seemed to make it 2 easy.

i really felt if the coup de grace thing had work i would have a chance but to find it was such a small glimmer i was bound 2 loose and conceded.

any help or units that seem to really kill this thing would be helpful.

OK, not *entirely* sure what you are talking about here, but I'll give it a go.

Sicarius can make a *single* power weapon attack at S6. If it wounds it causes Instant Death, which *can* be caused by Strength>=2*Toughness, but can be caused in other ways - as in this case, where you are told it always causes Instant Death

Long story short - if you hit AND wound the trygon with the Coup de grace effect you WILL cause the Trygon to suffer instant death, because your special rules state you always do regardless of the relative strength and toughness of the mdoels involved.

In other words - the Trygon gets no armour save (power weapon) from any attack sicarius makes, meaning as long as you wound on a 4+ with the Coup de grace the Trygon is dead, dead and dead. Rolling a "1" has NOTHING to do with it.

I think the onlything thats going to be much use is concetrated anti-tank, a few missile launcher and lasscannon shots from a devestator squad should do some damage. Ordanance will work well too.

Basically, BIG GUNS!!!

The answer to killing just about everything in 40k is Assault Terminators!

Th/SS Terminators will eat just about anything.

Obliterators. Move and fire lascannons ftw

ok cheers yer was kinda hard to explain

my main big guns is my land raider pluis both tactical squads had missile launchers. i have not completed my army nor has my friend and the look even apart from maybe he had 1 more heavy unit than i do which seemed to make the diff
i guess i just need some extra heavy weapons when my force gets bigger.

the fact that we where playin on a 1.15m x 1.15m table just to make the cae quick prob meant that i was slighlt at a disadvantage of not being able to spread my units away from him or away from each other.

just with cato vs trygon prime. the specail attack that cato sicarius had to hit 3+ and to wound 4+ does that mean that it should have been dead? or am i totally wrong...

Monster Rain wrote:The answer to killing just about everything in 40k is Assault Terminators!

Th/SS Terminators will eat just about anything.

No kidding.

Turn 2: *blows up LR with Zoans*

Turn 3, 4, 5: *TH/SS Termies proceed to rape them, a Mawloc and a Trygon*

e_e the only thing I couldn't kill by the end of the game was a Termie Librarian attached to a squad of 6 (4 by the end) TH/SS Termies. Nasty pile of gak those 40pt models are.

4' x 4' is fine for 1000 point games, a little small for bigger points values.

Cato is WS6, and I thought the Trygon is also WS6 so it would be a 4+ to hit, followed by a 4+ to wound (S6 vs T6) which is then an unsaved wound (as it is a power weapon, and no armour saves are allowed and the Trygon has no invulnerable save) meaning the Trygon suffers Instant Death - losing ALL its remaining wounds.

Yes, you were robbed. No idea where the "rolling a 1" came from.

4' x 4' is fine for 1000 point games, a little small for bigger points values.

Cato is WS6, and I thought the Trygon is also WS6 so it would be a 4+ to hit, followed by a 4+ to wound (S6 vs T6) which is then an unsaved wound (as it is a power weapon, and no armour saves are allowed and the Trygon has no invulnerable save) meaning the Trygon suffers Instant Death - losing ALL its remaining wounds.

Yes, you were robbed. No idea where the "rolling a 1" came from.

yes i am right he did a wound save of some kind(most have been some sort of armour save that he work out)...and was telling me because we went about it the first way and he felt robbed and i thought that may have been 2 easy lol...
maybe it was but i would have needed that...

and trygon prime has ws of 5 making it 3+ by rule book.

I think the Trygon has WS6.

G

where going of the new codexes and trygon and trygon prime both have ws of 5 not that it would have matter if it was 6, i rolled 6 to hit anyway lol.

panzerman wrote:where going of the new codexes and trygon and trygon prime both have ws of 5 not that it would have matter if it was 6, i rolled 6 to hit anyway lol.

It as WS 5. Check the codex, assuming makes an a....

Moving thread to Tactics.

Oh I meant WS4... thanks for the correction!

G

No worries, Trygon is scary when they pop out, however, when your army is properly equipped, those Trygons are new target practice for you. A lot of my local gaming club SM players are convince that plasma guns are the way to go, in addition to your melta and las cannon. I took a glance at the SM codex, you guys are loaded with a lot of low ap weapons.

If the trygon is coming too close to you, feed it with a cheap sacrificial unit, and finish it next turn with your guns. This is how the SM players are handling my trygon, it's working fairly well for them.

I hope that helps.

I mean like all tyranids, its beatable... its finding what to kill it with thats back at ur main lines that i find the problem

One could try to hide an epistolary in a tacsquad holding the defensive positions. The Trygon pops up and kills some stuff - but a libby with might of the ancients and his force weapon has a nice chance of insta-gibbing that big meanie monster, too.

Da BLUE orks wrote:I mean like all tyranids, its beatable... its finding what to kill it with thats back at ur main lines that i find the problem

The more beasties in reserve means the more you can allocate to waiting for them to arrive.

I like to keep my Land Raider moving around and shooting within 12" of my firebase until the Trygon shows up.

Witzkatz wrote:One could try to hide an epistolary in a tacsquad holding the defensive positions. The Trygon pops up and kills some stuff - but a libby with might of the ancients and his force weapon has a nice chance of insta-gibbing that big meanie monster, too.

Not really. You can't use Might of the Ancients and a Force Weapon in the same turn,as you can only use one psychic power in a turn. If you want to use the Force Weapon to try and pop the Trygon Prime,then you can't use Might of the Ancients. You need 4's to hit the Trygon Prime,6's to wound it,then you need to make your Psychic test on 3d6 because of the Trygon Prime's Shadow of the Warp ability. So,the chances of a Libby popping the Trygon Prime are slim at best.

Whatever1 wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:One could try to hide an epistolary in a tacsquad holding the defensive positions. The Trygon pops up and kills some stuff - but a libby with might of the ancients and his force weapon has a nice chance of insta-gibbing that big meanie monster, too.

Not really. You can't use Might of the Ancients and a Force Weapon in the same turn,as you can only use one psychic power in a turn. If you want to use the Force Weapon to try and pop the Trygon Prime,then you can't use Might of the Ancients.

False.

An Epistolary can use two psychic powers per turn, one of which can be a Force Weapon Smackdown.

Monster Rain wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:One could try to hide an epistolary in a tacsquad holding the defensive positions. The Trygon pops up and kills some stuff - but a libby with might of the ancients and his force weapon has a nice chance of insta-gibbing that big meanie monster, too.

Not really. You can't use Might of the Ancients and a Force Weapon in the same turn,as you can only use one psychic power in a turn. If you want to use the Force Weapon to try and pop the Trygon Prime,then you can't use Might of the Ancients.

False.

An Epistolary can use two psychic powers per turn, one of which can be a Force Weapon Smackdown.

True,an Epistolary can,but a standard Libby can't. In any case,the Epistolary would have to make 2 Psychic tests on 3d6,which isn't very likely to happen.

Whatever1 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:One could try to hide an epistolary in a tacsquad holding the defensive positions. The Trygon pops up and kills some stuff - but a libby with might of the ancients and his force weapon has a nice chance of insta-gibbing that big meanie monster, too.

Not really. You can't use Might of the Ancients and a Force Weapon in the same turn,as you can only use one psychic power in a turn. If you want to use the Force Weapon to try and pop the Trygon Prime,then you can't use Might of the Ancients.

False.

An Epistolary can use two psychic powers per turn, one of which can be a Force Weapon Smackdown.

True,an Epistolary can,but a standard Libby can't. In any case,the Epistolary would have to make 2 Psychic tests on 3d6,which isn't very likely to happen.

That wasn't really the point though, was it? The post you commented on originally specifically mentioned an Epistolary, which can use two psychic powers per turn.

You said that it couldn't be done, and I corrected you. SITW doesn't really have any bearing on it.

Monster Rain wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:One could try to hide an epistolary in a tacsquad holding the defensive positions. The Trygon pops up and kills some stuff - but a libby with might of the ancients and his force weapon has a nice chance of insta-gibbing that big meanie monster, too.

Not really. You can't use Might of the Ancients and a Force Weapon in the same turn,as you can only use one psychic power in a turn. If you want to use the Force Weapon to try and pop the Trygon Prime,then you can't use Might of the Ancients.

False.

An Epistolary can use two psychic powers per turn, one of which can be a Force Weapon Smackdown.

True,an Epistolary can,but a standard Libby can't. In any case,the Epistolary would have to make 2 Psychic tests on 3d6,which isn't very likely to happen.

That wasn't really the point though, was it? The post you commented on originally specifically mentioned an Epistolary, which can use two psychic powers per turn.

You said that it couldn't be done, and I corrected you. SITW doesn't really have any bearing on it.

I stand corrected. I missed the mention of Epistolary in the original post,which is where I made the mistake.

Monster Rain wrote:The answer to killing just about everything in 40k is Assault Terminators!

Th/SS Terminators will eat just about anything.

TH/SS termies will eat just about any nid, except the swarmlord. Only 5/36 thunderhammer attacks will wound the swarmlord.

Against a Trygon Prime 5/12 Thunderhammer attacks will cause a wound, which should pop one like a MC sized zit.

Sicarious should have done the job. One attack, 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, Instant Death. He's also got a 4++ to defend return attacks if he whiffs.

Also, Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasmagun Razorbacks do a fine job on any Tyranid MC. If he does you the service of popping up with 12", the vehicle gets 3 shots that wound on 2 or 3, and ignore armor. I killed a Trygon in one shooting round with two of these, and a combat squad with Plasmagun/Combi-Plasma. I had disembarked a Command Squad with Sicarious and 2 MG for cleanup, but didn't need it thanks to good rolls. I bet he goes for a safer deep-strike next time, I think he was hoping to get a Razorback kill with the Trygon's shots, and it didn't work out.

schadenfreude wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The answer to killing just about everything in 40k is Assault Terminators!

Th/SS Terminators will eat just about anything.

TH/SS termies will eat just about any nid, except the swarmlord. Only 5/36 thunderhammer attacks will wound the swarmlord.

Against a Trygon Prime 5/12 Thunderhammer attacks will cause a wound, which should pop one like a MC sized zit.

I think that the "just about" clause in my statement would mean that there are things that TH/SS Terminators should be kept away from.

The Swarmlord is one, the Nightbringer is another.

Depends on how many TH/SS Termies we are bringing to the battle

TH/SS Terminators are like Firepower.

If they aren't solving your problem, you aren't using enough.

I would just hold the line anyway if im playing SM vs Nids. wouldn't want to meet them up close now would I?

Da BLUE orks wrote:I would just hold the line anyway if im playing SM vs Nids. wouldn't want to meet them up close now would I?

They'll be close pretty soon anyway, with all the wings and Deep Striking.

Orks(I assume that's what you're playing) don't have a whole lot to fear from most Nids in CC.


Note that I said most.