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I've been playing 'crons for a while now and am now in the process of collecting the polar opposite army: numerous, assaulty orkz. Keep in mind

My end goal is about 2500 points worth, so what should I be shooting for after I'm done painting all these Black Reach boyz? I plan on doing a lot of conversions to have the wielding drills and wearing sunglasses a la Gurren Lagaan, so I'm probably going to want something besides BR boyz. Do the boyz that come with the Battleforce include all the same bits you'd get in one of the Boyz boxes? Does the same go for the trukks?

Are Nob Bikers really as super-amazing as everyone makes them out to me? I'm used to pounding them out with a C'Tan and Particle Whips or watching my fiance pound them out with THs and Vindicator blasts. If I do get them

Are Stormboyz as awesome as I think they are? 12+1d6 move on an assault unit seems pretty amazing to me. Is Zagstruk worth the points? He basically just seems like a particularly fast PK Nob with an uber-bosspole who costs me an extra (d3*12) points, but I can see how that would be helpful. Only thing I'm worried about is getting caught in combat more than one round and losing the PK altogether.

What happens if I mechanize? AV10, opentopped trukks worry me because once they pop open I'm worried that their contents will be outright liquified. I'm guessing the tactic is to drive up, hope it survives a turn, then disembark and assault? With a red paint job, I still get to use the boarding plank if I move 13 inches, right?

Are lootas worth it? I'm worried they're just going to be shot up before accomplishing anything.

Are Meganobs even worth the points? I'm worried about the fact that they're S+P.

Any GS advice would be helpful because I'm not a skilled modeler by any means. I mean, painting necrons was easy mode.

Battle force set- you can get shoota arms and ork bodies on ebay for relatively cheap. Battleforce set gives you konvershuns for sluggas and choopas or shoota boyz as well as bikers and one trukk. Shoota boyz are good for dakka armies, sloggers, and objective holding. From AOBR, if you have a set or two from that, you should have enuff slugga and choppa boyz for ya.

Slugga and choppa boyz are good as trukk boyz. Not so good in slogging armies. Maybe one full unit as sloggers, and maybe an 'ard boy upgrade, making them your main assault force and dakka magnet.

Nob bikers- yes and no. A point sink and not as effective when enemies can focus fire on a 600 point unit and wipe it out in one turn. If horde swarmed, nob bikers also get swamped forever. And then the lashers...
On a scale of 1-10, give 'em a 6. Good, but requires absolute dedication to field. I like PK FNP 2 wound mainiacs with speed, but not when it is a third of my army.

Stormboyz- good in a slogging army or army with speed freaks in mind. 2 squads are optimal because one would be eaten alive before they can get to an opponent. I bought a Zagstruk once for the deepstrike, and in the end traded him away (recently). His abilities on paper are good, but the Nob with Bosspole and PK are suitable enuff for stormboyz. If you lose the PK, you are probably losing the enire squad . Either way, Stormies are good for flanking enemies and filtering them towards the middle.

Mech lists- take some BWs with deffrollas. Trukk boyz help fill out a list. Take a look at dashofpepper's battle reports in the Battle Report section to see how well his mech army did. He used trukk boyz as a compliment to his BWs. 6 full trukk boyz may be too much. Remember these two things: Trukk boyz are usually one shot wonders and not usually used to build a list around; more to compliment what you have in the list.

Lootas- Holy jesus, they are amazing. Str 7 AP 4 (or 5, don't have codex on me atm), 1d3 Heavy fire at 4 foot range. Yes please.

Downsides: one unit of 15 lootas, potential 45 shots= only one target. It means that unit is down a good chunk of models or that transport doesn't exist anymore. Loota massed fire is amazing, but some tell you to run Lootas as several smaller squads to spread their fire around. They are primarily used to pop transports and thin enemies. Remember that LOS is not your friend if you take Lootas, but Lootas are integral to most ork lists.

Meganobz- poor man's termies. Suffer from insta-death, no invuln saves, and wound allocation is poor for them compared to regular nobs. Not really worth taking unless you add Mad Dok Grotsnik to 'em, which in turn gives the unit the ability to add cybork bodies, FNP, and fearless. Even then, the mad dok has his own problems to deal with.

Well, I figured lootas would end up disappointing due to BS2, but after doing the math they seem pretty damn good for the points, even with only 12-15 shots. I'll have to get used to dealing with a unit with Heavy weapons, I'm just spoiled by the resiliency and mobility of my Necron Destroyers. But it seems that, on average, Lootas with be better for popping transports point for point even if they aren't quite as reliable against low-armor troops (although they could get decently lucky and wipe out a gak load of genestealers or something)

What about regular warbikers? 25 points seems pretty reasonable for T5/4+ armor/cover and decent shooting. Not to mention the ability to TB.

Are deffkoptas worth the points? They seem a little pricy, and usually my Destroyers (also T5 with better armor and WBB) only survive by staying out of range, but the koptas don't seem to have that option.

I don't even play Orks but I looked through my brother's Codex. Nob Bikers are amazing. So you make a massive unit of death with a majority of your points. Who cares? Your dudes are like 6pts each, and a transport is 50 or something. It's ridiculously cheap(see awesome). They do everything, and with wound allocation abuse it's just redunc. Use them, you'll thank me later.

Ostrakon wrote:
What about regular warbikers? 25 points seems pretty reasonable for T5/4+ armor/cover and decent shooting. Not to mention the ability to TB.

An excellent unit on paper, but are kind of a let down in play. They are good in shooting and assault and are quick but have a large footprint and trouble with morale because with the max squad size so low they don't stay fearless long. 4+ armor and cover save (3+ when boosting) and T5 is nice but at 25 points per model doesn't keep them around as much as you'd like.

Ostrakon wrote:Are deffkoptas worth the points? They seem a little pricy, and usually my Destroyers (also T5 with better armor and WBB) only survive by staying out of range, but the koptas don't seem to have that option.

Ork anti-tank is basically lootas at long range and save in cover and who are the most effective at taking out AV 12 or below at range for their points or koptas/warbuggies/kans within 24" who have to get within range of basically everything your enemy has to take shots. Deffoptas have trouble with morale if you take them in groups and offer up free kill points if you take them as singles. The most effective deffkoptas IMO are buzzsaw/rokkit koptas taken as singles. They're extra KP and are expensive often beyond what they're really worth but if you go first then scout + turbo boost can allow you to assault turn 1 with a strength 7 power weapon as well as probably get a side shot off on armor.

Nob bikers do tend to be effective and take a little finesse to keep them away from things that kill them well or to take those threats out quickly but they do have some weaknesses. They need to be led by a warboss with their low morale and things like psyker battle squads completely ruin their day. Mostly I don't run them much anymore because people hate facing them. I don't get complaints when I wipe them out by using normal units, but if Nob bikers are on the table people tend to be unhappy.

I would say that if you're concerned about the low armor on trukks then the best thing to do about it is just get yourself a big mek with a KFF and stick him in the middle truck. Gives you a 50/50 chance of ignoring hits and you can slap a PK on him for boarding plank shenanigans.

So what am I supposed to do against AV14? Pray?

Ostrakon wrote:So what am I supposed to do against AV14? Pray?

Punch it with a powerklaw, or use deffrollas/boarding planks.

1) you can never have enough DAKKA!!

Ronin wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:So what am I supposed to do against AV14? Pray?

Punch it with a powerklaw, or use deffrollas/boarding planks.

Oh, do deffrollas work against vehicles? That sounds pretty crazy.

Ostrakon wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:So what am I supposed to do against AV14? Pray?

Punch it with a powerklaw, or use deffrollas/boarding planks.

Oh, do deffrollas work against vehicles? That sounds pretty crazy.

They do now!
It is almost mandatory to take BW with Deff rolla now. Kind of like the compulsory unit of fire warriors, etc...

never mind

Ostrakon wrote:So what am I supposed to do against AV14? Pray?

I see what you did there.

Nightwatch wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:So what am I supposed to do against AV14? Pray?

Punch it with a powerklaw, or use deffrollas/boarding planks.

Oh, do deffrollas work against vehicles? That sounds pretty crazy.

They do now!
It is almost mandatory to take BW with Deff rolla now. Kind of like the compulsory unit of fire warriors, etc...

Okay, so what's a good example of a good Battlewagon loadout? Am I supposed to load up on extra guns for the sole sake of not getting glanced to death? Otherwise I don't see the point of 4 rokkit launchers when I can only move+fire 1 of them.

I was thinking 'ard case, red paint job, killcannon and deffrolla would suffice.

'pends on what you want the BW for. If it's mostly to ferry your boys into battle, my usual loadout is RPJ, deffrolla and two big shootas to prevent immobilised results. 'ard case is never worth it (for transports) cause you lose open-topped status using it.

So is a KFF completely necessary for a good mechanized ork army?

Do I just put all of my Trukks in a cluster with my Big Mek in the middle? I was thinking about setting up stormboyz behind them for a cover save too, and trying to move most of my force in one giant blob. I figure moving 4 trukks 19 inches for a massive assault the following turn would be pretty fun.

Playing with those Kans were pretty crazy though. Maybe keep the Kans on either flank? I'm worried they're going to take too long to arrive, especially if I wanna fire some rokkits or KMBs instead or running.

It's not mandatory, but a travelling 4+ save is damn useful because ork vehicles only come in two varieties: incredibly fragile (trukk) or expensive (battlewagon). Either way, you would like a save to protect your investment, especially because orks tend to die a lot when their transports get popped.

Really, you need to decide your approach and build around that theme. You want crazy speed and rushing to assault? Get loads of trukks (like 6-9) and fill with boyz and nobz, complement with some ranged/fast tank like buggies, koptas, or lootas. Get two KFF meks and call it a day.

You want a dread bash? Get max kans, some dreads as troops (optional), some KFF meks, probably a mass of shoota boyz, and loads of fire support: lootas, buggies, koptas.

You want a biker army? Get a Wazzdakka and make tons of smallish size biker units (3 or 5 man) and flood the board, complementing with some biker nobz, deffkoptas, etc.

There are other themes (gunlines with lootas/shootas, burna boy spam, battlewagon spam, etc.) but it's kind of futile to completely recommend models or units without some framework of what you're ultimately trying to do. Ork lists are touchy; they have a ton of specialists, very few generalists. What's great in one army is an anchor in another. Further, the ork codex isn't that strong overall, especially at higher levels, so you're going to need to maximize your choices to really compete. My advice is to playtest a bit with proxies or borrowing a friend's units if possible and see what you like, what works for you. Once you have an idea of what style, there are tons of army lists and advice here to help you flesh out your 2500 points.

Skarboy wrote:It's not mandatory, but a travelling 4+ save is damn useful because ork vehicles only come in two varieties: incredibly fragile (trukk) or expensive (battlewagon). Either way, you would like a save to protect your investment, especially because orks tend to die a lot when their transports get popped.

Really, you need to decide your approach and build around that theme. You want crazy speed and rushing to assault? Get loads of trukks (like 6-9) and fill with boyz and nobz, complement with some ranged/fast tank like buggies, koptas, or lootas. Get two KFF meks and call it a day.

You want a dread bash? Get max kans, some dreads as troops (optional), some KFF meks, probably a mass of shoota boyz, and loads of fire support: lootas, buggies, koptas.

You want a biker army? Get a Wazzdakka and make tons of smallish size biker units (3 or 5 man) and flood the board, complementing with some biker nobz, deffkoptas, etc.

There are other themes (gunlines with lootas/shootas, burna boy spam, battlewagon spam, etc.) but it's kind of futile to completely recommend models or units without some framework of what you're ultimately trying to do. Ork lists are touchy; they have a ton of specialists, very few generalists. What's great in one army is an anchor in another. Further, the ork codex isn't that strong overall, especially at higher levels, so you're going to need to maximize your choices to really compete. My advice is to playtest a bit with proxies or borrowing a friend's units if possible and see what you like, what works for you. Once you have an idea of what style, there are tons of army lists and advice here to help you flesh out your 2500 points.

Do I really need to focus on one aspect or another like that? Why can't I have a couple Kan units supported by Trukks and a Bike mob?

You can assemble your army in any way you want. It's just that if you want to be able to play in tournaments and be competitive it helps to have a focused list. For friendly games though just play the units that you enjoy.

FeistierErmine wrote:You can assemble your army in any way you want. It's just that if you want to be able to play in tournaments and be competitive it helps to have a focused list. For friendly games though just play the units that you enjoy.

Really? I'm coming from playing 'crons, an army that has, what? 3 good units?

It seems that, with Orks, there are enough good units that I don't need to hedge my bets like that to be competitive. If I take like 90 trukks, aren't I just asking to get owned in KP-equivalent scenarios? If I focus on bikes, isn't any half-decent assault unit going to wreck me (like TH/SS termies?) And since everything is so cheap, I don't see why I can't fit it all in, since I've practically filled the FO chart at 1500 points.

General questions:

Are Nobs decent enough to just take as, you know, Nobs? I was thinking of just sticking them with big choppas, maybe some PKs if I can fit the points in, and sticking them in a Killcannon BW.

I've been using MLs on my Kans, but since their CC attacks (along with lots of PK boarding planks, dreads, and the deffrolla) can take care of vehicles, is it better to take them with grotzookas? It seems to me that if I'm not going to shoot at vehicles I'll generally end up with more dead infantry with the grotzookas. And they're cheaper.

Nobz can take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport, but not if it has the Killkannon upgrade, Im afraid. But Nobs are good, either as a back-up counterassault element, or a front-line shock assault, or alteast thats how i run them. But you kinda need to go big on them, and make sure you get the Bosspole, WAAAGH! Banner, Painboy, and Cybork armour and then sprinkle a couple PKs and Big Choppas around. They're beastly, but they cost alot of points, and footslogging does them no good cause they'll get blasted out of the sky that way.

Kans are decent firing platforms for Orks, having a superior BS3 over the usual orks BS2, so using them as long-range anti-tank isnt a bad idea, especially en masse.

Nobz are one of the best units in the codex if you use them right. I always try to run them with a war boss for moral and make the weapons vary. Basically if your going to field nobz try to keep in mind that your opponent will Hate them no matter what you do. With that in mind you should always try to go all out with them but being the point sink they are you should try to keep them in small numbers with a bosspole and/or warboss. Oh, and always vary your weapons for wound allocation but keep in mind that while you do want to take as much variety as possible the extra attack from the choppa slugga nobz go along way, so keep a few of those in there.

Try to mix it up with kanz to. By this I mean take one full squad with one build and another squad with a different build.

The number one thing to keep in mind when feilding an ork army though is to get used to stomaching losses and realize how many you can lose and still be effective.

Regarding your comment about mixing your army to have several streinghts with all these different units and such...DON'T!!! Remember that even orks that look like they are good at doing a particular task, tank hunting, mob wiping, ect, still cant compete with others. No matter what kind of ork army you try to run, keep in mind that orks in general are ment to be played in somewhat of a hoard setting, this is why they are so cheap. A lot of people dont see it this way but if you look at thier specials, mob rule in particular you can see my side of the argument. You need to run your army one way or the other and go all out with as many units that fit the style as possable, other wise you will get wiped out.

Really if you whant some really good advice and a good summery of what to take and what not to take, check out some of the articles, the tactica in particular. its on this site but heres an easier way to get to it, it is a big help. http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Category:Orks_Tactica

Ronin wrote:Nobz can take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport, but not if it has the Killkannon upgrade, Im afraid. But Nobs are good, either as a back-up counterassault element, or a front-line shock assault, or alteast thats how i run them. But you kinda need to go big on them, and make sure you get the Bosspole, WAAAGH! Banner, Painboy, and Cybork armour and then sprinkle a couple PKs and Big Choppas around. They're beastly, but they cost alot of points, and footslogging does them no good cause they'll get blasted out of the sky that way.

Kans are decent firing platforms for Orks, having a superior BS3 over the usual orks BS2, so using them as long-range anti-tank isnt a bad idea, especially en masse.

Well I figured what I'd do would be give the entire mob armor and big choppas along with a painboy and a banner. Then I'd put them all in a BW with a deffrolla, use the rolla to pop transports and disembark and assault its contents. With 50 S7 attacks hitting on 3+ at I4, I'm averaging like 9 dead marines or 5 dead termies not including the WB or big mek that would probably come along with a PK. And hopefully I wouldn't be too screwed in the ensuing turn against being shot at, as I'd hate to get wrecked by a Demolisher shot in the meantime. That doesn't sound too expensive to me, comes out to about just under 500 for the whole package, excluding the HQ I'd be buying anyway.

EDIT: didn't realize big choppas were two-handed, as it turns out they'll inflict roughly the same number of wounds on T4 at least on the charge, so it's probably better to spend those points on a couple of PKs.

Ostrakon wrote:

Ronin wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:So what am I supposed to do against AV14? Pray?

Punch it with a powerklaw, or use deffrollas/boarding planks.

get a buncha dreds and ghazgkull thraka.

Is Ghazgkull worth his points though? He strikes me as one of those overprices special characters who, while cool, is pretty lackluster.

No, Ghazzy is definitely, and undeniably worth his points. Anyone who thinks otherwise is absolutely foolish.

JEB_Stuart wrote:No, Ghazzy is definitely, and undeniably worth his points. Anyone who thinks otherwise is absolutely foolish.

Well, once you reach a certain points size, if your build benefits from his special abilities, then he's definitely worth the points. I wouldn't take him as part of kan & deffdred 1,000 point list, though.


To the OP,
You asked earlier about how you fight AV14 - you aren't going to get much value in shooting AV14. You have access to a lot of highly mobile units with PKs though, stormboyz, koptas, bikers, and they can bring so many attacks against the AV10 rear armour that it's almost a certain kill. No matter what kind of list I try to focus on, I always have a few units that are highly mobile and have pks, but that are kept cheap enough that I don't mind throwing them away by assaulting a tank in the middle of the enemy's ranks.

sebster wrote:Well, once you reach a certain points size, if your build benefits from his special abilities, then he's definitely worth the points. I wouldn't take him as part of kan & deffdred 1,000 point list, though.

Granted, but the question wasn't one of how he fits in certain lists, but more along the lines of wondering whether or not he was worth it at all. Ghazzy definitely has his place, but I find that the most effective Ork lists tend to include him.

sebster wrote:You asked earlier about how you fight AV14 - you aren't going to get much value in shooting AV14.

Fact

sebster wrote:You have access to a lot of highly mobile units with PKs though, stormboyz, koptas, bikers, and they can bring so many attacks against the AV10 rear armour that it's almost a certain kill. No matter what kind of list I try to focus on, I always have a few units that are highly mobile and have pks, but that are kept cheap enough that I don't mind throwing them away by assaulting a tank in the middle of the enemy's ranks.

And, don't forget that our glorious Deff Rollas officially work on vehicles, so that is a very strong option as well.

4BW with deff rollas and red paint (dont get kannons or Ard case - ever), Big mek, Ghazzy, nob squad in Mega Armour, PK Big Mek with KFF.

Add burnas in, find some points for smal grot units you can keep in reserve for last minute walking onto objectives, and lootas if you want.

At 1750 it is absolutely lethal

ghazzy is def worth his points, probably the single best special char in the game as far as effecting the entire army dramatically and being about the killyest model in the game.

he gives you a practically guaranteed turn 2 Mechanized assault with a 27" charge range on turn 2, (13" trukk /w rpj, deploy 2" in front automatic 6" run from ghazzys waaagh, 6" assault, and he makes the entire army fearless until your next turn