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The question's fairly simple. The question came up to me when I was reading about how everyone in Cadia has been in the military. But then, if everyone's off fighting, how do they have kids? Amoung other things, how do they get people to support and educate these children.

Likewise, with the tithe, what happens when the term is over? The soldiers are far removed from their homeworlds, are they just dumped off and expected to live happily ever after?

The term of an Imperial Gaurdsman and the average life expectancy of an Imperial Gaurdsman are identical. I wonder why...

Yeah, once inducted there are two ways out. Advancement into a governing position and death.

Eh, I don't think that's correct n0t_u. In the Gaunt's Ghosts series Doc Dorden talks about how he's getting physically too old & talks about what he will do when he can no longer perform his duties, one of which is settling down & being a local physician.
Citing that while he may be too old for emergency battlefield surgeries but not too old to diagnose & do other duties. Which leads me to believe that if one miraculously survives long enough to the point they cannot serve they may be able to get a discharge.

Dorden also isn't technically part of the Guard. He was a civilian doctor who was training the medical cadre at the time of the fall. He just happened to get out with them, and he just kinda took over since the vast majority of the medical cadre died during the fall of Tanith.

Kanluwen, from lexicanum he is "Chief Medic Tolin Dorden" He is a member of the guard, it is explicitly stated the ONLY civilian to survive Tanith was Brin Milo,

I'm aware of the fact that he's a member of the Guard.

However, he also makes a point to mention that he was only a member of the Guard in the loosest sense as he wasn't actually going to be going off-planet and was ONLY there to train the regiment's medical corps.

Then where do all the Cadian children come from, and how are they raised?

Kan: Despite that circumstances came up & he IS a member of the Imperial guard, loosest sense or not at his induction that does not matter anymore as that plan went boom with the planet.

Either way from Lexicanum on Imperial Guard :When reinforcement does not occur, for whatever reason, regiments may find themselves gradually depleted through casualties until they are destroyed in battle or mustered out for meritorious service. The former incidence is much more likely to occur than the latter.
Which is to say, while unlikely discharge is possible.

As to Cadian Children, Military personnel are still human & still have urges, you can imagine the rest. Beside that I assume they may be more like Israel in that each person is trained in the military but not everyone is on active duty at once, though I don't know the official truth.

maybe they send them back on "Planetary Repro leave"

i think most of cadias population is in the army, but many never leave the planet. Reserves like deployment.

unless they are like ancient Sparta, no go to fight unless you have already had 1 child.

Fafnir wrote:Then where do all the Cadian children come from, and how are they raised?

There's mention, jokingly, of Cadian "breeding farms"(mainly to have fun at other regiments' expense), but the main thing to realize is that Cadian women who are in the soldiery are for the most part assigned to the Interior Guard--which means they never leave the planet, and have a little less risk of death than your standard Cadian regiments.

It also means they get actual "R&R" rather than just rear assignments, which could mean that they raise families on the side in addition to their actual combat assignments.

Shas'o:
He wasn't inducted. He volunteered to train the Medicae staff, and then was going to go back to his private practice.
He was given a rank during the Founding just so that he could deal with the bureaucrats without having to constantly call in an officer to do it for him.

Dorden was, for all intents and purposes, about as much a member of the Imperial Guard(originally--because following the fall of Tanith, he took the Eagle since where the heck else would he go to get to stay with Mikal?) as the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps is part of the United States military.

Kan, can you quote the book where it states:
"He was given a rank during the Founding just so that he could deal with the bureaucrats without having to constantly call in an officer to do it for him."

Either way the original point I was trying to make, that discharge is possible, has been made.

Discharge, while possible, is so incredibly unlikely it makes winning the lottery look common.
Most Guard veterans by the time they reach Dorden's age are given rear combat duties, training details for PDFs/Guard foundings, etc. A Guard unit that MIGHT be receiving discharges for meritorious conduct is so fethed up that it's a mere shadow of what it used to be--and that still doesn't mean they'll actually be discharged, but they are entirely likely to be folded into another decimated regiment or put on reserve detail until it's brought back up to full strength.

And no, I can't quote the book. It was from "The Lost" arc as far as I recall, however.

Being folded in with other regiments was covered earlier on that lexicanum page, and "The Lost" is an omnibus of several books, all of which I read & haven't heard that before so unless you can tell me where it is I must call B.S.

On that note We've strayed WAY off topic & I don't want to incur the wrath of the mods so I'm going to leave this thread alone.

Note:
"It was from "The Lost" arc as far as I recall".

life

How about those in the IG who end up with serious phychological issues or physical injuries to the point where they can't function? Are they honorable discharged with benefits or turned into servtiors?

Psychological issues like what?

That's what combat stimms are for!

Physical injuries get you placed in reserves, or given a crude augmetic and tossed back into the meat grinder.

My $.02

I think there is a large distinction between serving in the IG (the on-the-go armies that get dumped from warzone to warzone until they're finally wiped out) and serving in a Planetary Defense Force (PDF). Can't remember where I read it exactly (90% sure that it was either the IG codex or IA:3) but the IG is tithed from the PDF's best regiments. In short, if you're in the IG you've essentially got the rest of your career lined up. Conversely, the PDF's members probably rotate out (similar to the conscripted armies of Europe and as someone pointed out, Israel) after their term of service is up.

Lesson of the day: if you find yourself in the PDF perform well enough to keep the commissar off your back, but not well enough to end up tithed to the big leagues of the IG!

Yes and no.

PDF is, for some worlds(Verghast for example, if we go for another Gaunt's Ghosts citing), considered an honorable path as important as being in the Imperial Guard--provided you're a career officer.

Guard foundings will occasionally skim the PDF ranks, but again it's based upon the planet in question. Cadia doesn't recruit from its PDF. In fact, their PDF equivalent(the Interior Guard) is as well trained--if not better trained than most world's Guard foundings.

yeah discharges are so rare in the guard you just sorta fight til you die.
I've only heard of it happening in "Fifteen Hours" the novel from BL
so for the other 99.9999999999999999% of the guard your gonna fight until you die.

Actually its mentioned in some cases that a Regiment serves for ten years becomes an army of conquest and given settling rights to the next planet they takeover pr reclaim.
Unless of course their in the middle of a crusade then they keep fighting.

Also The Firstborn get choose whether they return home after five years of service or to fight for another five.
I imagine that Cadians are one of the few regiments that actually get to return home given the importance of Cadia but I'm not sure on that.

according to older edition fluff, a guard regiment that fights well for about 20 years is given the honor of settling a new planet as colonists.

I assumed that Guardsmen signed up for terms increments of 5, 10 or 20 years. Guess I was mistaken though.

The guard is not the monolithic organization being depicted, and discharge is not always so uncommon. Different planets are free to organize their guard regimens in different ways with different terms of service, and different generals often run their armies very differently.

Many worlds can and do just press gang solders by the millions, and those likely do not get the luxury of retirement. Others like Cadians and the Elysians have a professional military, and likely DO retire their highly trained solders after a period of time. Some are highly ritualized like the Vostroyan, and have optional retirement.

Not all armies are sent in meat grinder style. Again, the Ciaphas Cain series, along with numerous others, depict guardsman serving long periods of time over numerous deployments, and even retiring.

Long story short, guardsman come in every shape, size, and flavor. There are press gangs of mideival citizens being handed a las gun they barely know how to use and thrown to their deaths by the billions, there are guirilla fighters like the like the Tallarns and the Catachan, trench warfare grunts like the Death Korps of Kreig, highly mobile and elite solders like the Elysians using advanced imperial technology, snow warfare specialists like the Valhallans, an disciplined professional solders like the Cadians. The empire is shown to encourage and take great advantage of these different styles of army. When faced with a decade long seige on Segmentum Tempestus where troops would die in the trenches by the millions, and moral would be a serious problem, they sent in the suicidally loyal and implacable Death Corps of Kreig. When they needed to defeat orcs on an ice world they sent in the Valhallans. For rapid response the Elysians, for jungle fighting the Catachans, etc, etc, etc.

The question "what is the average term of a guardsman" is impossible to answer, and--no offense to previous posters--any generalized answer is incorrect. The terms are as varied as the armies. The fact that the Cadians, for instance, require everyone to serve implies they they do NOT all die, and they are not all lifers. Their planet could not continue. Likely they have to serve full time for a given period, most survive, and then you are on reserves (one weekend a month two weeks a year my bodarier ) for a long period after that (perhaps life). It just depends on the regimen and the general over the army.

Kanluwen wrote:
Cadia doesn't recruit from its PDF. In fact, their PDF equivalent(the Interior Guard) is as well trained--if not better trained than most world's Guard foundings.

Cadia recruits its PDF from the Imperial Guard. Or, to be more specific, Cadia's PDF consists of whatever regiments happen to be on the planet at any given moment, for resupplying, retraining or recreation.

All in all, Cadia is a pretty interesting case anyway.
I would imagine that, unless there's a huge discrepancy between the number of Y and X chromosomes a male generates during his lifetime, there would be ways to encourage a high birth rate. That is, if trooper Joe and trooper Alice, who both just spent the entire last year being shelled at by Chaos Defilers still need encouragement to blow off steam with a few beers and a dark corner in the munitions depot

Alice, upon proving she's carrying a baby will be assigned to a temporary position on Cadia itself, maybe even with a promotion, and when the child is old enough to understand simple orders and say 'sir, yes sir' will be taken to a military school, while Alice returns to the front lines until she spawns another little redshirt baby. Of course, to cheat the system, Alice might well decide to try for another promotion, with trooper Bill, just because she likes better coffee they make at her new posting. She might well be encouraged to do so by special laws looking favorably on mothers who have several babies, as well...
Joe, on the other hand, will return to the front lines in a couple of weeks, with a smug smile on his face that his mates will understand. If he's particularly diligent at helping ladies escape from shell shock, news of his feats of valor might earn him a Hero of Cadia, 5th class medal, eventually.

riplikash wrote:The guard is not the monolithic organization being depicted, and discharge is not always so uncommon. Different planets are free to organize their guard regimens in different ways with different terms of service, and different generals often run their armies very differently.

Many worlds can and do just press gang solders by the millions, and those likely do not get the luxury of retirement. Others like Cadians and the Elysians have a professional military, and likely DO retire their highly trained solders after a period of time. Some are highly ritualized like the Vostroyan, and have optional retirement.

Not all armies are sent in meat grinder style. Again, the Ciaphas Cain, along with numerous others, depict guardsman serving long periods of time over numerous deployments, and even retiring.

Long story short, guardsman come in every shape, size, and flavor. There are press gangs of mideival citizens being handed a las gun they barely know how to use and thrown to their deaths by the billions, there are guirilla fighters like the like the Tallarns and the Catachan, trench warfare grunts like the Death Korps of Kreig, highly mobile and elite solders like the Elysians using advanced imperial technology, snow warfare specialists like the Valhallans, an disciplined professional solders like the Cadians. The empire is shown to encourage and take great advantage of these different styles of army. When faced with a decade long seige on Segmentum Tempestus where troops would die in the trenches by the millions, and moral would be a serious problem, they sent in the suicidally loyal and implacable Death Corps of Kreig. When they needed to defeat orcs on an ice world they sent in the Valhallans. For rapid response the Elysians, for jungle fighting the Catachans, etc, etc, etc.

The question "what is the average term of a guardsman" is impossible to answer, and--no offense to previous posters--any generalized answer is incorrect. The terms are as varied as the armies. The fact that the Cadians, for instance, require everyone to serve implies they they do NOT all die, and they are not all lifers. Their planet could not continue. Likely they have to serve full time for a given period, most survive, and then you are on reserves (one weekend a month two weeks a year my bodarier ) for a long period after that (perhaps life). It just depends on the regimen and the general over the army.

*claps*

Fafnir wrote:Then where do all the Cadian children come from, and how are they raised?

Well you see, when a man loves a woman they,...um,.....,uhh,....THE STORK!!

Lupe wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Cadia doesn't recruit from its PDF. In fact, their PDF equivalent(the Interior Guard) is as well trained--if not better trained than most world's Guard foundings.

Cadia recruits its PDF from the Imperial Guard. Or, to be more specific, Cadia's PDF consists of whatever regiments happen to be on the planet at any given moment, for resupplying, retraining or recreation.

All in all, Cadia is a pretty interesting case anyway.
I would imagine that, unless there's a huge discrepancy between the number of Y and X chromosomes a male generates during his lifetime, there would be ways to encourage a high birth rate. That is, if trooper Joe and trooper Alice, who both just spent the entire last year being shelled at by Chaos Defilers still need encouragement to blow off steam with a few beers and a dark corner in the munitions depot

Alice, upon proving she's carrying a baby will be assigned to a temporary position on Cadia itself, maybe even with a promotion, and when the child is old enough to understand simple orders and say 'sir, yes sir' will be taken to a military school, while Alice returns to the front lines until she spawns another little redshirt baby. Of course, to cheat the system, Alice might well decide to try for another promotion, with trooper Bill, just because she likes better coffee they make at her new posting. She might well be encouraged to do so by special laws looking favorably on mothers who have several babies, as well...
Joe, on the other hand, will return to the front lines in a couple of weeks, with a smug smile on his face that his mates will understand. If he's particularly diligent at helping ladies escape from shell shock, news of his feats of valor might earn him a Hero of Cadia, 5th class medal, eventually.

Negative.
Cadia HAS no PDFs, whatsoever. They have the "Interior Guard", which are fully trained Guard regiments that never leave Cadia itself.

However, the Shock Troop Regiments do contribute men to the Interior Guard and vice versa, as it's needed.

eldarbgamer13 wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Then where do all the Cadian children come from, and how are they raised?

Well you see, when a man loves a woman they,...um,.....,uhh,....THE STORK!!

Nono it comes from sex, aka the human cycle of reproduction if you did not know that Or if one are easily fooled the Emperor stork