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Way to go, FBI!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36075836/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Good on the FBI.

good, good, finally they're getting them.

Their plan was one of the most evil plans I've seen in a while. Kill an Innocent, kill the cop that comes to help, use WMDs to kill the large groping of mourning cops. All to "Fight the Anti-Christ"

The Empire strikes back!

Go FBI

-Sigh-

A home made claymore isn't a WMD...

Evil plot is Evil.

Here's the part I particularly liked:

"The group says on its Web site that Hutaree means "Christian warrior" and describes the word as part of a secret language that few are privileged to know. The group quotes several Bible passages and states: "We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. ... Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment."

Ah yes, EQUIPMENT. Gotta have that EQUIPMENT.

jp400 wrote:-Sigh-

A home made claymore isn't a WMD...

Evil plot is Evil.

QFT. On both points.

sexiest_hero, WMD is an acronym for "Weapon of Mass Destruction". Usually refers to nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, though some argue that MOABs and larger thermobaric weapons fall into this category. The only proper response being, "I should hope so! What's your point?"

Have you seen the latest to come out from the Russians? It puts the MOAB to shame.

Chaos Brute:

Unfortunately, our legislative branch has muddied the waters with antiterrorist legislation that defines things like pipe bombs and home-made fertilizer bombs as being "weapons of mass destruction."

...So sexiest_hero is indeed correct in that they were charged with manufacturing "weapons of mass destruction" - it just wasn't the evil-super-villian-stroking-the-white-persian-cat variety of "WMD."

@JP: Ooh...shiny.

@Commisar: Fantastic. I'm going to keep using the correct definition, though

@sexiest: Given Commisar's post...yeah. At least I got to make a joke about things that go boom!

hehe NP, I tent toforget not everybody is in the military and up on what is a WMD and what is not. After 9/11 a lot of funky laws happened that no one paid attention to.

sexiest_hero wrote:hehe NP, I tent toforget not everybody is in the military and up on what is a WMD and what is not. After 9/11 a lot of funky laws happened that no one paid attention to.

Uh, those laws were before 9/11. I'm pretty sure they came after McVeigh, Waco, or the first WTC truckbomb attempt. Definitely during the Clinton administration though.

I was like 6 when those both happened, so can't say for sure off the top of my head.

May havebeen clinton. I just assumed the term WMD came about during the 9/11 days. My point about lawmakers over-reacting still stands.


Edit:

So these guys are terrorist, hell bent on Fighting the Anti-christ Obama.


"In October 2008 -- in the midst of the financial crisis, and as it appeared increasingly likely that Barack Obama would be elected president -- a man with a balaclava over his face, dressed in combat fatigues and holding an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, posted a video on YouTube. Using the alias Pale Horse and describing himself as a member of the Ohio Militia, the man warned: "Things are bad. Things are real bad, and it's going to be a lot worse--our country is in peril," before encouraging viewers to arm themselves. The video, billed as a "wake-up call" for America, was viewed more than 70,000 times before being removed last spring.

Today, Kristopher Sickles -- aka "Pale Horse" -- was one of the nine people charged with seditious conspiracy in connection with an alleged plot to kill law enforcement officers, and to "oppose by force the authority of the U.S. government," as part of a Christian militia group known as the Hutaree, based primarily in Michigan.

The Hutaree see law enforcement as their enemy, and have been preparing to engage them in conflict, according to the indictment. The group also believes that they must prepare to battle the anti-Christ.

But Pale Horse already had made a name for himself in broader militia circles, and among those who monitor such groups. His October 2008 YouTube video was followed by one in April 2009, in which he called for a "peaceful" demonstration of at least one million armed militia men marching on Washington. "No shooting, no one gets hurt. Just a demonstration," said Pale Horse. "The only difference from any typical demonstration is we will all be armed."

The march on Washington never materialized in any significant numbers. But that video contained evidence that Pale Horse already was working with militia members from Michigan. As the Southern Poverty Law Center noted at the time, it concluded with a message for the Michigan Militia: "Thanks for letting us train at Camp Stasa with you guys." Camp Stasa is a former Michigan Militia training site.

Pale Horse's alleged involvement with the Hutaree is significant because it suggests an overlap between the Christian militia group and the broader militia movement. That broader movement appears since yesterday to have been trying to distance itself from the Hutaree, telling reporters that at least one Michigan Militia member, of Islamic descent, has been working with the Feds as they target the Hutaree.

It also is significant because both the timing and the script of the Pale Horse videos -- "our country is in peril," for instance, and the call for the march on Washington -- suggest that Sickles may be motivated less by an "End Times" theology or a fear of the anti-Christ than by more immediate and political concerns.

Users of militia websites already have expressed alarm about Pale Horse's arrest. Early on Sunday morning -- before news reports had appeared -- a commenter on one such site informed his fellow users that Pale Horse had been arrested, writing: "I'm sure some of you know pale horse from his now famous youtube videos, I just found out that he and some other people from the Ohio Militia have been arrested, anyone else heard of this, supposed to have taken place in sandusky and huron."

But that posting was followed a few hours later by one from another user, attempting to draw a clear line between the Hutaree and the militia movement by declaring the latter "NOT a Constitutional based militia but rather a biblical based militant group"

So these fools will end up at gito and be waterboarded right?

sexiest_hero wrote:May have been Clinton. I just assumed the term WMD came about during the 9/11 days. My point about lawmakers over-reacting still stands.

Weapons of mass destruction refers to any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious physical harm through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors,a weapon involving a disease organism or biological agent ,or a weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.

That's the US legal definition of a WMD, just as a FYI.

I don't really see how them classing pipe bombs, fertilizer bombs, etc as "WMDs" would be an overreaction either.
A pipe bomb can be made using poisonous/toxic chemicals, correct?
A pipe bomb is a weapon that is designed to cause death or serious physical harm through the impact of said chemicals, right?

Voila. It meets the criteria, if only very vaguely.

Bonus round:
There's no fething reason, whatsoever, that any civilian needs homemade explosives without supervision from a demolitions expert.

kanluwen, when people think WMD they think Nukes and such. By calling pipe bombs WMDs we could say anybody has them and Invade willy nilly. "Iran has WMDs I saw a pipe bomb!". See what I am getting at?

Then maybe people should read up on things, rather than remain in the dark?

It's not very difficult.

Kanluwen wrote:
Voila. It meets the criteria, if only very vaguely.

What you cited was the definition for the purposes of national defense. The definition, for the purposes of criminal law pertaining to terrorism, includes all the elements of the national defense definition, plus:

(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—
(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

dogma wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Voila. It meets the criteria, if only very vaguely.

What you cited was the definition for the purposes of national defense. The definition, for the purposes of criminal law pertaining to terrorism, includes all the elements of the national defense definition, plus:

(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—
(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

Shhh, don't tell them that there's more than one definition Dogma!

Ah see we all learn a little bit, that's the glory of talking about things. Thanks dogma.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:sexiest_hero, WMD is an acronym for "Weapon of Mass Destruction". Usually refers to nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, though some argue that MOABs and larger thermobaric weapons fall into this category. The only proper response being, "I should hope so! What's your point?"

The definitions of words change. The early use of the term covered many categories, but for a very long time WMD was used to refer exclusively to strategic nuclear weapons, as there really is nothing else on that scale. In time it became useful to blur the lines between strategic nuclear weapons and chemical and biological weapons, in order to increase the perceived danger of the latter. That the term would later be extended to pipe bombs and the like is just one more step down that line.

WMD is largely a political term, trying to fit a specific definition to it's use is impossible.

jp400 wrote:

Have you seen the latest to come out from the Russians? It puts the MOAB to shame.

That vid somehow reminded me of the original C&C intro... same voice... xD

Also, go FBI. God I love religion >_<

Kanluwen wrote:I don't really see how them classing pipe bombs, fertilizer bombs, etc as "WMDs" would be an overreaction either.
A pipe bomb can be made using poisonous/toxic chemicals, correct?
A pipe bomb is a weapon that is designed to cause death or serious physical harm through the impact of said chemicals, right?

Voila. It meets the criteria, if only very vaguely.

It's worth noting that lead is poisonous too.

sexiest_hero wrote:kanluwen, when people think WMD they think Nukes and such. By calling pipe bombs WMDs we could say anybody has them and Invade willy nilly. "Iran has WMDs I saw a pipe bomb!". See what I am getting at?

On the plus side, we now know that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction! Thank god we invaded when we did!

I wonder how the one guy scored the picture in the blue collared shirt.

Orkeosaurus wrote:On the plus side, we now know that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction! Thank god we invaded when we did!

Popularising WMD to refer to weapons outside of strategic nukes actually came from the build up to Iraq, to muddy the distinction between strategic nukes capable of wiping a city off the map and biological and chemical weapons capable of far less damage.

Hutaree (or even Captain Hutaree) would make a great dakka username.

Mainstream rightist political agitators in the US will not be satisfied until someone gets shot. Actually, people have already died. Remember Dr. Tiller? And how about Vernon Hunter, who was murdered by Joseph Andrew Stack when the latter flew his plane into an IRS building? Unlike the confusion surrounding JFK's and RFK's death, if something were to happen to Obama we wouldn't need a conspiracy to explain it. Just turn on Fox News and hear about the great crusade against evil. Did it ever occur to the would-be-demagogues who tell the tens of thousands who watch and listen to them that the latest issue of debate in our nation's public life will surely signal the Apocalypse that several of them might take that kind of rhetoric seriously and go out and start shooting/train for terror attacks in the Michigan woods/load up a van with chemical fertilizers/jump into their (fething) private plane/shoot a man they disagree with at his church/etc?

sebster wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:On the plus side, we now know that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction! Thank god we invaded when we did!

Popularising WMD to refer to weapons outside of strategic nukes actually came from the build up to Iraq, to muddy the distinction between strategic nukes capable of wiping a city off the map and biological and chemical weapons capable of far less damage.

Its an annoying distinction since bio/chem weapons aren't capable of mass destruction. They're actually amazingly good at killing without the destruction part.

You could call poisoning the soil for decades mass destruction of the environment....

Soladrin wrote:You could call poisoning the soil for decades mass destruction of the environment....

Most biological and chemical weapons don't actually do that. They typically have a deadly half life of a few hours at which time the chemical reactions cease or the chemicals disperse or all the biological gribblies just die away.

No need to split hairs, the mass destruction in those cases refers to killing large groups of people not necessarily material infrastructure.

Oh God why won't the spaceship get here sooner. The world is getting to chock'd full of them. Can't swing a dead hooker anymore without hitting a crazy now days.