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As our governor has asked let's take a minute to reflect on why those good ole boys fought...

From the Confederate Constitution Article II Section 9, Line 4:"(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Catch the wave! Confederate History Month!

Hurray! We are racist for the whole month!

Yeah out of respect of Black History month they decided to not make March Confederate History month. Shhhhh....you hear that. * banjo starts playing*

Now we can celebrate Independence Day earlier than July...

That is when the parades all flutter with Conferedate flags and bystanders parked in pick-up trucks get out of their lawnchairs clutching a beer salute those flags with patriotic pride of their heritage.

God Bless Ameri-can.

States Rights. Amen.

And let's not forget... it was the War of Northern Agression.

Since I know there is already an immense amount of historical fail on most of Dakka's perception of the Civil War, I will just say it was a tragedy and leave it at that....

JEB_Stuart wrote:Since I know there is already an immense amount of historical fail on most of Dakka's perception of the Civil War, I will just say it was a tragedy and leave it at that....

I love holidays too!

I can't see this thread going to a nice place.

As the token black guy, The confederate flag, has ceaced to bother me year ago. What does bother me, is the fact that they took up arms againt thier fellow Americans and basicily ripped the country in half while costing hundreds of thousands of lives. America as we know it would not exist, Freedom for all would not exist. All the things that our founding fathers fought for, Peace, justice and all men being created equal would be a lie. They claim the Feds were trapling states rights, well what rights were thse states trampling? So if they want to remember and celebrate what the south stood for, more power to them. Using bloodshed to solve issues in a democratic country, making a mockery out of our founding ideals. wanting to up hold acts like murdering a man for learning out to read, if this is the history you wish to honor, fine, it's a free country. To me the Confederacy flies in the face of everything America stands for, and to some, keeps the dream of the south rising again alive. Even to this day, people claim to love America one moment, then wish to leave it if the wrong party wins.

The confederate flag thread at least had content.

Here's the story in a nutshell from someone who lives in the city where it's happening:

Governor McDonnell, like past Republican governors of Virginia, has proclaimed April Confederate History Month. He did so at the request of the organization called the Sons of the Confederacy, whose members trace their lineage to some Confederate soldier or another. They are not a racist group nor are they overtly political (but pretty clearly conservative asa demographic, I'd say). They spend their time and resources on reenactments and charities, especially focusing on teaching about the life of Confederate soldiers. McDonnell thought the proclamation would advance Virginia's tourist industry, a great deal of which focuses on Civil War battle grounds. Whether this proclamation has anything to do with Attorney General Cucinelli's case against the Federal Government concerning the constitutionality of HCR or the recent VA bill signed by McDonnell into law regarding that same issue is purely speculative. What is clear is the Governor did not mean to either overlook or aggrandize slavery. He immediately responded to criticisms and added a paragraph into his proclamation urging all Virginians not to forget the evil and inhumanity of slavery and its place in the Civil War. He made a silly mistake and that's that.

I should state that I do not agree with the Governor's politics in general but that I think this issue has been blown out of all proportion as the latest South-baiting. Now you know my personal spin as opposed to the objective facts.

I challenge Dakka to resist the smug one-liners when talking about this issue as well as the pickup truck and white sheet jokes. But I do reiterate my request that this thread be locked.

It really is a simple issue, in fact, one might even say it is black-and-white.


It's a one-liner, sure, but it isn't smug.

I understand trying to boost tourism to Virginia and I know a lot of people like to travel to the historic sights of the ACW. I think on one level there are good intentions to this.

However, naming it Confederate History Month instead of something more direct like Civil War History month is pretty odd, and that's before you consider the omission of any mention of slavery from the initial announcement. Sure, credit to the governor making a correction, but it's not something you just forget to mention.

So, like, you know, it's good to have a month focussing on the Civil War, but if anyone thinks there's nothing else going on they're kidding themselves.

What you do not understand, what you have no inkling of whatsoever, is what the War means to people living in this place and dealing with this context today. It really is not so simple as the politico-moral fable you and others have presented elsewhere.

What does the war mean to you? What context do you have to deal with today? What politico-moral fable do you mean?

Honest questions. How is a violent uprising in a free democratic country ever justified?

Hey I truly believe that we need a full understanding of the Confederacy which is why I'm celebrating by quoting the CSA Constitution. Like say...


Article IV Sec. 2. (I) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

Go! Go! Confederate History Month!

All these Yankee revisionists wanna make the war about SLAVERY, instead of what it was really about - STATE'S RIGHTS!!!

...Specifically, the right to own other people. Erm...

If you ever wanna read what a colossal *%#$-up the CSA was, grab a hold of William Davis' political history of the CSA called "Look Away." A good reading of that book would cool the ardor of even the most hardcore "Lost Cause" partisan.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Hey I truly believe that we need a full understanding of the Confederacy which is why I'm celebrating by quoting the CSA Constitution. Like say...


Article IV Sec. 2. (I) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

Go! Go! Confederate History Month!

I thought July was Confederacy Month? Wasn't that when they won at Gettysburg, when Lee sent Longstreet deep right and encircled Meade, oh wait...

Celebrations of the Confederacy should be kept to slightly fat guys running around in blue, grey, and butternut uniforms to the sound of fake artillery and lots of smoke, to the cheers of bystanders eating burgers and kids with their hands to their ears. USA! USA! USA!

Usa 1-Confederacy-0

Commissar Molotov wrote:All these Yankee revisionists wanna make the war about SLAVERY...

Yeah! Those damn Yankee revisionists even traveled back in time to insert a dozen pro-slavery clauses into the CSA Constitution!

JEB_Stuart wrote:Since I know there is already an immense amount of historical fail on most of Dakka's perception of the Civil War, I will just say it was a tragedy and leave it at that....

So sez the poster named after one of the more flamboyant generals of the Confederate army, whose dash and bravery cost Lee the battle of Gettysburg in attempting a second ride around the Army of the Potomac and whose life was personally laid down riding to defend the Confederate capital in 1864 at the Battle of Yellow Tavern.

American Civil War History Buff yo!

The Civil War, and the events leading up to it, are an important part of American history and shouldn't be forgotten. It doesn't cast the USA in the best light, but that doesn't matter, there's a lot of important lessons to learn from it. Same with the treatment of the Native Americans and their banishment to reservations.

So, I have no problem with the Virginia governor declaring April to be Confederate History Month. Now, if he's out there yelling, "The South will rise again!" that's a different matter.....

WarOne wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:Since I know there is already an immense amount of historical fail on most of Dakka's perception of the Civil War, I will just say it was a tragedy and leave it at that....

So sez the poster named after one of the more flamboyant generals of the Confederate army, whose dash and bravery cost Lee the battle of Gettysburg in attempting a second ride around the Army of the Potomac and whose life was personally laid down riding to defend the Confederate capital in 1864 at the Battle of Yellow Tavern.

American Civil War History Buff yo!

Proving the lesson learned by Comanches everywhere. Personal skill and gallantry will never overcome repeating firearms.

"You just shot an unarmed man!"
"Well he should have armed himself."
-Jim Munney.

Well, the British Empire did a LOT of bad stuff - I still think we should acknowledge and celebrate our history regardless. If anything, it brings into sharper focus the bad things, lest we forget - and lets us celebrate the things which are worth celebrating. With that in mind, I see no problem at all in a celebration/remembrance of the Confederacy, as long as it isn't a revison. It's not like they were the Nazis.

Just an outsider's opinion.

The British Empire didnt do anything bad... It was all rainbows and rivers of chocolate!

Owain wrote:And let's not forget... it was the War of Northern Agression.

I know it's a stupid one-liner, but I can't sleep well when I know there's something wrong on the internet...

It's not the War of Northern Aggression because the CSA started it by seizing Fort Sumter which was a Federal military complex. Also, before you get to saying, "Well it was on CSA land!" no it actually wasn't. Fort Sumter was built on an island off the coast of South Carolina. The island was originally too small to support the fort, so soil was imported from MARYLAND. That means, both literally and metaphorically, that Fort Sumter was a Federal base on Federal land. When the CSA seized Fort Sumter, they committed an act of war. So no, the war can't be called the War of Northern Aggression.

I would like to say in passing that there's nothing in the Constitution that says states can't secede from the Union. So there was actually two cases of states' rights being trampled. But popular opinion in the North, until the capture of Fort Sumter, was firmly against war with the CSA. Most Americans wanted the South gone anyways. So yeah, the CSA screwed themselves, proceeded to fight stupidly, and lost the war. While I respect their valor and commitment to their ideals, I cannot abide stupidity. The CSA got what was coming to it.

And I think Southern Pride and Southern Heritage displays are ridiculous. 1) Why do you want to continually drudge up memories of America's worst hour? 2) You lost. Get over it. 3) I'm of German descent. How would it make people feel if there were Nazi pride parades? I mean, I'm only remembering my heritage, right? So that'd be cool. And yes, I just compared the CSA to the Nazis. On purpose.

/rant off.

Knute wrote:[
I would like to say in passing that there's nothing in the Constitution that says states can't secede from the Union.

Agreed with all points except this. I think the case of Grant vs. Lee following on the seminal case of Grant vs. Beauregard put that issue to rest.

This thread reminds me of the famous Charlie Daniels Band song "The South's Gonna Do it Again".

If that's the case could you folks start by cleaning up the Brewster-Douglass housing projects in Detroit please?

Thx.

Frazzled wrote:

Knute wrote:I would like to say in passing that there's nothing in the Constitution that says states can't secede from the Union.

Agreed with all points except this. I think the case of Grant vs. Lee following on the seminal case of Grant vs. Beauregard put that issue to rest.

Please, let's not get into a debate in the OT forum about whether the Constitution is a permissive or restrictive rules set.

There were a lot of issues that went into the Civil War. Saying the Civil War was just about slavery is like saying that WW I was due to the assassination of the Arch Duke.

dietrich wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Knute wrote:I would like to say in passing that there's nothing in the Constitution that says states can't secede from the Union.

Agreed with all points except this. I think the case of Grant vs. Lee following on the seminal case of Grant vs. Beauregard put that issue to rest.

Please, let's not get into a debate in the OT forum about whether the Constitution is a permissive or restrictive rules set.

There were a lot of issues that went into the Civil War. Saying the Civil War was just about slavery is like saying that WW I was due to the assassination of the Arch Duke.

Well like I said, 500,000 Billy Yanks from the firm of U,S, and Army were quite pursuasive that the Constitution was extremely restrictive, at least on this issue.

"Can't we all just get along?" William Tecumseh Sherman

"All we are saying, is give peace a chance." Don Carlos Buell

"We have secured peace, not only for ourselves, but for our time." Phillip Sheridan

"The CSA has serious and reasonable issues that need to be addressed." The George Armstrong Custer