Orkeosaurus wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:You know, I don't really have a problem with the South having decided to secede.

On the other hand, I don't really have a problem with invading the newly formed slave-empire to the south of us after this happens either (especially after having already taken over a bunch of Mexico).

Thats just because you're jealous of our lack 3 feet+ snowfalls...

But with summer coming we can relax in the mosquito filled humidity instead!

Fateweaver wrote:Yeah. The days will soon be upon us where humidity is in triple digits and the mosquitoes so thick that even birds of prey are afraid to come out and hunt.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the *forms* [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

generalgrog wrote:Wow...how did I miss this thread!!

As a current resident of south west Virginia, and a descendant of at least one confederate soldier who fought in the North Carolina Infantry, I would like to comment a little bit.
I grew up a huge civil war history buff, my parents even purchased for me the Time Life Civil war series and we almost started to get into reinacting.

I think a lot of people miss the point about why southerners would want to "celebrate" the heritage of the confederate soldiers. I believe the main reason why the average confederate soldier fought was out of a sense of duty. Duty to their families, friends, and home. It didn't necesarily matter that the rich plantation owners and politicians were spewing racist proslavery propaganda. I don't think they necesarily cared about all of that. They were just soldiers protecting their homeland from invaders.(In there eyes)

So while some people may look at it as "celebrating" slavery. I think what is being missed is that they are honoring the sacrifice that was made by the soldiers.

Now, this is coming from someone who thinks that the Civil War was one of the stupidest mistakes Americans made, I wish it never happened. But the fact is, that it did happen. It was a different time, and people thought differently back then.

The comparison of the nazis to the confederacy is way off IMO. The Confederacy didn't conquer entire nations, and haul people off to gas chambers. If you want to compare anything in American history to Nazis, I think a better comparison would be the doctrine of manifest destiny and how the native Americans land was stolen and were slaughtered. But not the confederacy, completly different IMO.

GG

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If we won no one would be complaining now. Except any existing slaves. Even then, they were offered freedom towards the end if they joined the fight.

generalgrog wrote:The comparison of the nazis to the confederacy is way off IMO. The Confederacy didn't conquer entire nations, and haul people off to gas chambers. If you want to compare anything in American history to Nazis, I think a better comparison would be the doctrine of manifest destiny and how the native Americans land was stolen and were slaughtered. But not the confederacy, completly different IMO.

theHandofGork wrote:If this is really about the civil war, then why not name it "American Civil War History Month?"

generalgrog wrote:Wow...how did I miss this thread!!

Beerfart wrote:I missed it for a while too....I was out in the fields picking cotton....really. Wish I had someone to do it for me.

Frazzled wrote:My Dad picked cotton as a kid. He didn't kill me when I complained about working at Target as a teen. He was a freeking saint. he didn't yell, just talked about going out with a sack at dawn and coming bad with bleeding hands at sunset. He was 8. I shut up after that.

theHandofGork wrote:If this is really about the civil war, then why not name it "American Civil War History Month?"

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:My Dad picked cotton as a kid. He didn't kill me when I complained about working at Target as a teen. He was a freeking saint. he didn't yell, just talked about going out with a sack at dawn and coming bad with bleeding hands at sunset. He was 8. I shut up after that.

Well parenting was different back in the 18th century.

Kilkrazy wrote:A lot of them had already joined the fight on the Federal side.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wonder how the grandchildren of those guys feel about celebrating Confederate History Month.

generalgrog wrote:Wow...how did I miss this thread!!

As a current resident of south west Virginia, and a descendant of at least one confederate soldier who fought in the North Carolina Infantry, I would like to comment a little bit.
I grew up a huge civil war history buff, my parents even purchased for me the Time Life Civil war series and we almost started to get into reinacting.

I think a lot of people miss the point about why southerners would want to "celebrate" the heritage of the confederate soldiers. I believe the main reason why the average confederate soldier fought was out of a sense of duty. Duty to their families, friends, and home. It didn't necesarily matter that the rich plantation owners and politicians were spewing racist proslavery propaganda. I don't think they necesarily cared about all of that. They were just soldiers protecting their homeland from invaders.(In there eyes)

So while some people may look at it as "celebrating" slavery. I think what is being missed is that they are honoring the sacrifice that was made by the soldiers.

Now, this is coming from someone who thinks that the Civil War was one of the stupidest mistakes Americans made, I wish it never happened. But the fact is, that it did happen. It was a different time, and people thought differently back then.

The comparison of the nazis to the confederacy is way off IMO. The Confederacy didn't conquer entire nations, and haul people off to gas chambers. If you want to compare anything in American history to Nazis, I think a better comparison would be the doctrine of manifest destiny and how the native Americans land was stolen and were slaughtered. But not the confederacy, completly different IMO.

GG

George Spiggott wrote:Black soldiers fought on both sides. When they fought for the south they were paid the same as whites and weren't segregated. Funny thing racism.

Frazzled wrote:

theHandofGork wrote:If this is really about the civil war, then why not name it "American Civil War History Month?"

Word. That I would be behind.

sebster on the first page of this thread/ wrote:However, naming it Confederate History Month instead of something more direct like Civil War History month is pretty odd, and that's before you consider the omission of any mention of slavery from the initial announcement.

richmond sentinel wrote:An official dispatch received yesterday, announces “on what seems good authority” that the enemy burned the buildings of the Virginia Military Institute at Lexington, on Sunday last. The Cadets are at present at Rope Ferry, Balcony Falls.

We are sorry to learn of the above destructions, but it is not much worse that we expected from our loving brethren, the Yankees.

halonachos wrote:The war itslef did not become about slavery until Lincoln ordered the Emancipation Proclamation which I believe he announced after the battle of Antietem.

halonachos wrote:So the war was about rascism, it just started with the North's rascism against the south.

halonachos wrote:

richmond sentinel wrote:An official dispatch received yesterday, announces “on what seems good authority” that the enemy burned the buildings of the Virginia Military Institute at Lexington, on Sunday last. The Cadets are at present at Rope Ferry, Balcony Falls.

We are sorry to learn of the above destructions, but it is not much worse that we expected from our loving brethren, the Yankees.

This is a clipping from an old newspaper in the south.

The VMI cadets had participated in the battle of New Market and won against the US troops. In retaltiation the US burnt down all but two of the buildings, only because those buildings were being used as shelter for civilians and as a hospital.


The war itslef did not become about slavery until Lincoln ordered the Emancipation Proclamation which I believe he announced after the battle of Antietem. The only reason he announced it after a victory was so that it didn't seem like a desperate move on the US's part to gain support. Instead it made the US cause seem like a just crusade and ended most of England's support for the south.

I know an older man who has a musket engraved with his great-great grandfather's name and even states his enrollment in the Army of Richmond.

The war ended with both sides saluting each other and then later the revival of the south. However, Lincoln was killed and his Successor(a sourtherner) was hated by the mostly northern Congress and nothing got done.

This is the south's way of remembering the men and women who died and even the president has sent wreathes to confederate soldier memorials, these men were americans, just misguided ones who had been portrayed as evil by the north in such books as "Uncle Tom's Cabin".

So the war was about rascism, it just started with the North's rascism against the south.

Manchu wrote:ITT: Frazzled anguished over being closet-Yankee

avantgarde wrote:I don't know about you guys but when I went to school in the South they told me the Civil War was really about slavery. They said the Southern rights thing was a load of hooey to make ourselves feel better.