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ello,

At my FLGS high point level games are pretty common and as such I have been thinking about creating a 2500 point list for my IG.
Right now this is more of a friendly based army and not a tourney army. However I would like it to be competitive and have a decent chance of winning games. This is list is based off some games at the 2000 and 1500 level. So here is what I was thinking of fielding.

HQ
Lord Commissar
Power Fist
Carapace Armour
95
He has worked well with the melta vets, if 3 melta guns do not kill the tank, then him falcon punching the thing does the trick, plus the metla bombs the squad carries help too. He is a cheap HQ and gives me a leadership boost.

Elites
Ratlings 5
50
A nice small unit that kills stuff on a regluar basis. Rending is nice, plus people tend to over look them. When joined with harker's sniper squad, the two can put a lot of hurt on any infantry unit.

Troops
Vet squad 1
3 melta guns
demolitions
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber
165
Basic melta troops. The Lord Commissar rides with them and they go tank hunting. The chimera gets them there and hunts infantry as appropriate.

Vet Squad 2
3 Grenade Launchers
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber
150
A cheap objective grabbing unit. Grenade launchers while lacking ap, the multi use of them is nice as is the fact they are assult weapons with a good range. They have been nice for grabbing objectives and providing a screen for the melta and plasma vets.

Vet Squad 3
Harker
3 Sniper Rifles
140
Great for holding read objectives or infiltrating with the ratings to grab enemy objectives. Resilient in cover and what ever the snipers are shooting at, Harker can usually wound and matches their range.

Vet Squad 4
Bastonne
3 Plasma Guns
Carapace Armour
205
The most expensive unit. While Bastonne is an expensive guy, I like him. The fact that I have no officers to give orders and that he can give some is nice (FRFSRF being my favorite). Also his hot shot pistol gives another marine killing shot. While in the past I have used a Chimeria to transport them, I want to experiment with a Vendetta.

Fast Attack
Scout Sentinels
2 Sentinels
Autocannons
80
These guys have been a great value. They can bust medium armor reliably and can attack infantry. While I have fun with outflanking them, sometimes I prefer deploying them normally and using the long range of the autocannons. Usually with the first turn most people are more concerned with the Russ and Chimeras than the sentinels.

Hellhound
Smoke Launchers
135
A new addition, I have had mix reviews with it. It cooks orks well enough and wounds space marines, but the ap4 still lets them make their armor save. It manages to live through most games not always leaving a lasting impression on other people. But it is a fast vehicle and I think I will try to have it screen the chimeria as it has better side armor. Plus it looks cool, so I have to give it a chance.

Vendetta
130
This will be a transport for Bastonne's vets and serve as a tank hunter. I have not played with this unit before and I can not wait until I get the model and make it.

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Extra Armour
195
Now to the big boys of the army. The Russes. A standered Bolter Baby, this tank makes MEQs cry. I try to move this one a little as possible so I shoot 1 large pie plate, 9 bolter shots, and 3 stubber shots a turn. This boy always earns its points back and can take anything up to TEQs.

Leman Russ Demolisher
Lascannon
Extra Armour
195
A vehicle buster (it seems to have a talent for killing land raiders, but with the demolisher cannon, the lascannon can not hit the broadside of a barn,) and TEQ killer, this unit I always move 6 and shoot both the demolisher cannon and the lascannon. Like the bolter baby, it always makes up its points and usually makes my opponent choose which unit to go after.

Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Extra Armour
260
Expensive? Yes. But it is a tank of eat AP2 death so the trade off is fair. As with the bolter baby, I try not to move this tank to much to maximize its shooting potential. When still, I can get five small pie plates and one lascannon shot. It really ruins peoples days and is very handy for dealing with FNP. Plus it gives the enemy another high profile target. While it can bust medium armour, I tend to use it as an infantry hunter.

Okay, right now I am 1800 point on the dot. What would ya'll suggest to add? A second mounted gernade vet squad sounds nice as it gives me a fifth scoring unit and use the extra points for some extra armour for the rest of the vechiles.
Or I could add a second bolter baby russ.
Pask might be fun to play with on the bolter baby.
Marbo would also be a fun element to play with. As would some Orgyns.

So once again Dakkadakka what say you? Suggestions are welcome. Also any comments about the army as a whole are welcome.

Thanks for looking at it.

I would add a few more demo or executioner tanks or maybe two more of each. I am a big fan of mech guard lists. More troops in Chimeras or Vendettas couldn't hurt either. A manticore or two also wouldn't lead you astray.

sentinals are weak and not great for 4 autocannon shots. id take 5 ogryn in a chimeria and put the lord commissar with them. A nice assult unit could come in handy in this list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Youd need to scrap the sents obviously

@showerbuddy, I have to respectfully disagree with you about the sentinels being weak and not worth their points. With all the armor that I have, they tend to survive and put a good showing for themselves.

@overwatch, I think I will try to get another metla squad in the list.

Okay a new list with some additions. Thoughts and comments are appreciated.

HQ
Lord Commissar
Power Fist
Carapace Armour
95
He has worked well with the melta vets, if 3 melta guns do not kill the tank, then him falcon punching the thing does the trick, plus the metla bombs the squad carries help too. He is a cheap HQ and gives me a leadership boost.

Primaris Pskyer
70
Goes with the plasma vets, I like the model and he should be fun to play with.

Elites
Ratlings 5
50
A nice small unit that kills stuff on a regluar basis. Rending is nice, plus people tend to over look them. When joined with harker's sniper squad, the two can put a lot of hurt on any infantry unit.

Marbo
65
He is here for the wild card factor, hopefully I will get some good and hilarious use out of him.

Ogryns 5
Chimera
Mutli-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber
275
They are here becase I like the models and I think it will be fun playing with them. I figure they can be a counter charge unit and the chimera will give them a ride to where they need to go. The Lord Commissar will probably ride with them so the unit has some powerfist attacks.

Troops
Vet squad 1
3 melta guns
demolitions
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber
165
Basic melta troops. The Lord Commissar rides with them and they go tank hunting. The chimera gets them there and hunts infantry as appropriate.

Vet Squad 2
3 Grenade Launchers
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber
150
A cheap objective grabbing unit. Grenade launchers while lacking ap, the multi use of them is nice as is the fact they are assult weapons with a good range. They have been nice for grabbing objectives and providing a screen for the melta and plasma vets.

Vet Squad 3
Harker
3 Sniper Rifles
140
Great for holding read objectives or infiltrating with the ratings to grab enemy objectives. Resilient in cover and what ever the snipers are shooting at, Harker can usually wound and matches their range.

Vet Squad 4
Bastonne
3 Plasma Guns
Carapace Armour
205
The most expensive unit. While Bastonne is an expensive guy, I like him. The fact that I have no officers to give orders and that he can give some is nice (FRFSRF being my favorite). Also his hot shot pistol gives another marine killing shot. While in the past I have used a Chimeria to transport them, I want to experiment with a Vendetta.

Fast Attack
Scout Sentinels
2 Sentinels
Autocannons
80
These guys have been a great value. They can bust medium armor reliably and can attack infantry. While I have fun with outflanking them, sometimes I prefer deploying them normally and using the long range of the autocannons. Usually with the first turn most people are more concerned with the Russ and Chimeras than the sentinels.

Hellhound
Smoke Launchers
Extra Armour
150
A new addition, I have had mix reviews with it. It cooks orks well enough and wounds space marines, but the ap4 still lets them make their armor save. It manages to live through most games not always leaving a lasting impression on other people. But it is a fast vehicle and I think I will try to have it screen the chimeria as it has better side armor. Plus it looks cool, so I have to give it a chance.

Vendetta
130
This will be a transport for Bastonne's vets and serve as a tank hunter. I have not played with this unit before and I can not wait until I get the model and make it.

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Extra Armour
195
Now to the big boys of the army. The Russes. A standered Bolter Baby, this tank makes MEQs cry. I try to move this one a little as possible so I shoot 1 large pie plate, 9 bolter shots, and 3 stubber shots a turn. This boy always earns its points back and can take anything up to TEQs.
Leman Russ Punisher
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy stubber
Extra Armour
Pask
275
This is squadron-ed with the bolter baby russ, I want to experiment with this tank, the idea seems cool and Pask while expensive does make the BS better, I figure if this does not work the way I want it to I will drop it, but I see no harm in trying it out.

Leman Russ Demolisher
Lascannon
Extra Armour
195
A vehicle buster (it seems to have a talent for killing land raiders, but with the demolisher cannon, the lascannon can not hit the broadside of a barn,) and TEQ killer, this unit I always move 6 and shoot both the demolisher cannon and the lascannon. Like the bolter baby, it always makes up its points and usually makes my opponent choose which unit to go after.

Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Extra Armour
260
Expensive? Yes. But it is a tank of eat AP2 death so the trade off is fair. As with the bolter baby, I try not to move this tank to much to maximize its shooting potential. When still, I can get five small pie plates and one lascannon shot. It really ruins peoples days and is very handy for dealing with FNP. Plus it gives the enemy another high profile target. While it can bust medium armour, I tend to use it as an infantry hunter.

Well this is 2500 on the dot. Any comments or ideas are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

So I take it that the list is that bad then?

Anybody?

Howzitgoin? I noticed that all your chimeras are set up with HB's but as you yourself are using them as mobile obj grabbers I'd advocate heavy flamers. You would be shocked if you saw the raw firepower of massed chimera heavy flamers I have brought to bear against horde armies, which are what is going to give this type of list the biggest problem.

I would cut the heavy stubbers from your russ' as they really aren't adding much, the same goes for the lascannons.

The pask punisher... I like it, personally, but it's awful. Truly one of the worst choices in the codex. There are a couple of lists that can utilize it... I'm not seeing it here.

This is a GREAT list to use ogryn. With all those chimera running about having a c lord and some ogryn to support you tank line is very important. 15 s5 shots out of the firing points and 3 s6 shots from the chimera is great... because unlike the punisher a vehicle destroyed result won't take away your shots! Then you get to unleash the shots and assault whatever melta'd your chimera and maybe combi assault another unit, tying up two of them, and keeping the C lord out of the fight (gone to ground in cover with a camo cloak, if he can take it I can't recall) and providing his 6" ld 10 bubble to the already stubborn ogryn.

bastonne melta vets in a vendetta is great and if you have turn one it's amazing. Scout forward as far as you can. move forward 6", disembark, bring it down and fire you vendetta at another target. usually 2 dead tanks and a distraction for your opponent. this is even better with a company command squad though as they have 4 melta guns, can also bring it down, and cost 115 points less.

The hellhound should lose extra armor in favor of a multi melta.

Adding a bane wolf w/ heavy flamer instead of the wimpy sentinals is a great call, it will kill marines by only firing the poison gun or ROAST ork hordes when brought to bear alongside a chimera and hellhound.

Harkers squad is a decent sniper unit, but I prefer ratling snipers, hands down. Harker is better if he's outflanking in a ML/HF chimera with demolitions vets equipped with a heavy flamer and two melta guns. Very versitile and almost always worth the points spent... which are many.

if you bump to 2500 I'd recommend replacing the pask-mobile with another executioner, adding a CCS with melta guns, a banewolf, and ogryn as my primary recommendation.

@kungfuhuslter, my next game I will give the heavy flamers a go. The stubbers to me have been ace as they give more firepower and can always shoot unless the tank is stuned, and it matches the bolters. So I will keep them. I can see the argument about not having extra amour and I will drop them for the next game and see how it does.
I understand your thoughs about the punisher and the more I look at the range of the gun, the less I like the tank for this army, but I will give at least on game via proxy.
If it does not work, I will figure something else to put there. Maybe drop the Psyker and add a CCS. Add another sentinel. The banewolf while nice, I do not like the extreme short range of the weapon. How useful have you found the multi metla to be?
Harker stays the way he is as that squad lets me use my tainth models.
Thanks for the advice.

I agree about sentinels... when I have 4 chimeras, 2 valks, and a couple tanks on the board nobody really notices the small squadron of armored sentinels with lascannons. At 70 points each, they usually can kill a land raider or battlewagon and make their points back easily enough.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:...Armored sentinels with lascannons. At 70 points each...

70 points for a bs3 lascannon. Just saying.

guardpiper wrote:So I take it that the list is that bad then?

Anybody?

As long as you only mind putting up a good fight but not winning, go with the list for 'ard boyz.

Kungfuhustler wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:...Armored sentinels with lascannons. At 70 points each...

70 points for a bs3 lascannon. Just saying.

True. Autocannons are probably a better expenditure of points.

Hi,

Something I don't like about this list is the short range overall of the entire army (except the Russ and Outflanking Sentinels). You are planning on throwing AV 12 Tanks with S6 AP6 Weapons at objectives and hoping they can lay down some fire to soften up the tagets (who invariably will have Cover Saves). While I use Chimera's with a HS, ML and HB, I never send it in hoping it can get the job done by itself, I always send a LR with it in an Armored column or two abreast to the right. The Chimera is great, but not on it's own.

The Vendetta is a great choice for sewing disorder in the enemy's rear, keeping them pre-occupied with three TL LC shots a turn is great, just hope the dice are on your side when the enemy shoots at it.

The lack of artillery and heavy weapons is kind of disheartening, since they can lay down serious death unmolested the entire game depending on what your opponent has. This list involves everything going full bore right at the enemy, the Guard aren't built for that without Super Heavies.

I hate the idea of taking a Lord Commissar as the lone HQ (no orders, no extra special rules besides Aura Of Discipline), instant shot magnet. With a list that is predicated on assaulting objectives, why not take Straken? He's a BMF in CQC and is built for a list like this, plus he can call two orders a turn.

Suprisingly, this list includes no flamers except the HH (and possibly the Chimera)! What better weapon to take for BS 3 Infantry that don't need to roll to hit with it?! Plus these guys are assaulting, most likely cover, no cover saves is beautiful. The Heavy Flamer is just a rude weapon that I enjoy immensely when clearing houses and trenches out when enemies are camping on an objective. And with the current template rules flamers are even better.

What's really surprising is that this army will have about the same amount of infantry as an average SM army! Guard need more meat shields, this entire list is a veteran set up where you will easily be outnumbered by Orks and Tyranids, be on even numbers with CSM, SM, Eldar, DE, Tau, and might outnumber Necrons. That isn't normal at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And another thing, harker's effectiveness is lost when he sits still. Having a vet squad with his Heavy Bolter plus three other assualt weapons would make more sense. A highly mobile, and powerful infantry squad that can infiltrate and wreak havoc.

Besides, a Special Weapons squad with three sniper rifles in a wood terrain is just as effective with about 120 points less in costs.

Storm Rider: "And another thing, harker's effectiveness is lost when he sits still. Having a vet squad with his Heavy Bolter plus three other assualt weapons would make more sense. A highly mobile, and powerful infantry squad that can infiltrate and wreak havoc.

Besides, a Special Weapons squad with three sniper rifles in a wood terrain is just as effective with about 120 points less in costs."

My thoughts exactly. He's far better as a outflanker or scouter.

IMHO, I think you ought to add another Vendetta to your list. Squad 'em up and fly circles around your opponent's big stuff whilst they scream wildly because of all the armor on the table. In addition, you could then decide to mount some of your vets in them and fly them across the table to wherever you please.

Chimeras are amazing, and if you field any more troops, I'd make sure to put them in chimeras also. While on that note, you could take the stubbers off the chimeras and save a TON of points that can be better used elsewhere.

I would also add another AC sentinel to the squad, just to make them that much more annoying.

I can see ya'll arguments about harker, but to be honest the reason why harker is the way he is, is so that I can use my tanith first and only models. In the squad's defence it is more effective than a special weapon squad due to the vet's better bs, and the special rules that harker gives them. This squad has been every effective for me, but I will try the variation that has been suggested.

I am not sure where I can get the points for another vendetta.

I appreciate the comments but unfortunately, my schedule is not going to let me get a game in for a while. So it will be sometime next week before I can get a game in and try some of ya'll suggestions.

Also storm rider I am doing a vet army so I have BS 4 not 3 for my troops.
Also while I might be even troops wise, I am spamming loads of amour so it helps to even things out.

guardpiper wrote:So I take it that the list is that bad then?

Anybody?

Okay where to begin.

For the cost of the Lord Commissar you could buy a Company Command Squad with 4 Meltaguns. Find 55 points for a Chimera and you have a whole new anti tank unit instead of an expensive (and unreliable) backup.

Why the Demolitions on the Melta Vets? If anyone don't need Melta Bombs it's them. Instead give it to the Grenade Vets so they can kill tanks too.

I question the tactical value of your Harker squad but if your like the models go for it.

With the Company Command Squad to give orders you no longer need Bastonne. Saves you a lot of points (to buy a Chimera for you Company Command Squad). Be wary of using a Vendetta as a transport, if it moves (to drop your Plasma Vets off) it's firepower is heavily reduced. Ideally replace it with a Valkyrie (which can fire ML + 2 MRPs while moving up to 12") if you are deadset keen on air transport.

Split your Sentinels into 2 Squads of 1 so one burst of a Autocannon or Multi laser can't kill both.

Hellhound is fine but if you are fighting Marines a lot you can get a Banewolf.

Try to focus your Leman Russ more. You have spent a huge amount is sponsons and upgrades (145 points to be exact), you could just about buy another whole Leman Russ with those points. Why all the Extra Armour and Hull Lascannons? If you move these tanks you lose a lot of Firepower (and waste the Sponsons/hull weapons). 15 points for a Bs3 Lascannon is not worth it.

A LR Punisher?

A quick rewrite

Command Squad + 4 Meltaguns + Chimera = 145
Replace the Commish

Primaris Pskyer
70

Elites
Ratlings 5
50

Marbo
65

Ogryns 5
Chimera
Mutli-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
265
Drop the Stubber

Troops
Vet squad 1
3 melta guns
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
155
Drop the Stubber, remove Demolitions, points were wrong

Vet Squad 2
3 Grenade Launchers
Demolitions
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Bolter
170
Drop the Stubber, add Demolitions

Vet Squad 3
Harker
3 Sniper Rifles
140

Vet Squad 4
3 Plasma Guns
Carapace Armour
170

Drop Bastonne don't need him anymore

Fast Attack
Scout Sentinel
1 Sentinels
Autocannon
40

Scout Sentinel
1 Sentinels
Autocannon
40

Two squads


Hellhound
Smoke Launchers
Extra Armour
150


Vendetta
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Heavy Flamer
150
Drop wasted points, H.Flamer as last ditch assault stopper

Leman Russ Exterminator
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Pask
220
If your going to take Pask then get him an Exterminator, cheap and better then Punisher (4 x str 8 and 9 x str 6 against armour)

Leman Russ Demolisher
Heavy Flamer
165
Points savings

Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
245
Keep the Lascannon if you must but I would drop it

130 Points left over to spend on what you want.

the best ways to use the IG is as a large infantry-based army or as a tank-based army. you need to make the call on what you want to do. you can try hybrid, but you still need a lot of infantry as well.

I have to disagree with is putting Pask in an anti-infantry tank. I personally use him in a Vanquisher. He gets +1 BS and +1 to penetrating vehicles. 72" Str 8+1+2d6 (Vanq cannon gives an extra 1d6 to damage rolls) is nothing to sneeze at for 205 points.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:I have to disagree with is putting Pask in an anti-infantry tank. I personally use him in a Vanquisher. He gets +1 BS and +1 to penetrating vehicles. 72" Str 8+1+2d6 (Vanq cannon gives an extra 1d6 to damage rolls) is nothing to sneeze at for 205 points.

Against armour 12 and 13 a Pask Extreminator is the best armour killing Leman Russ (Pask Punisher is better against AV 10-11). That includes Vanquisher.

guardpiper wrote:
Okay a new list with some additions. Thoughts and comments are appreciated.

Okay, well, you asked for it...

HQ
Lord Commissar
95
He has worked well with the melta vets, if 3 melta guns do not kill the tank, then him falcon punching the thing does the trick, plus the metla bombs the squad carries help too. He is a cheap HQ and gives me a leadership boost.

Only time I've ever, EVER fielded one of these guys was in a squad of Ogryn in a friendly list. If he's with the melta vets, he'll be dead after his first hit. Do yourself a favor and replace this with a CCS.

Primaris Pskyer
70
Goes with the plasma vets, I like the model and he should be fun to play with.

I don't feel he's a good choice for tourny play, but I like him too. What synergy do you think you get out of having his S6 AP5 attack moving around with a plasma squad?

Ratlings 5
50
A nice small unit that kills stuff on a regluar basis. Rending is nice, plus people tend to over look them. When joined with harker's sniper squad, the two can put a lot of hurt on any infantry unit.

Which does sound good on paper, until you realize that the first time they're shot, they're going to go running. Emperor help you if anyone can get a flamer close to them. Still, the closest to a decent MC killer you'll get for the money.

Marbo
65
He is here for the wild card factor, hopefully I will get some good and hilarious use out of him.

The only thing I see Marbo archiving is psychological effect on your opponent. This is not a bad thing, but prepare to be disappointed.

Ogryns 5
275
They are here becase I like the models and I think it will be fun playing with them. I figure they can be a counter charge unit and the chimera will give them a ride to where they need to go. The Lord Commissar will probably ride with them so the unit has some powerfist attacks.

First off, is the LC with the meltavets or is he with the ogryn? Secondly, I wouldn't think of the LC there to do damage with the powerfist, but simply just there to keep the Ogryn from running at the first sign of trouble. Last but not least, see any and all discussion on Ogryn for why they're terrible. Not worth repeating here.

Vet squad 1
165
Basic melta troops. The Lord Commissar rides with them and they go tank hunting. The chimera gets them there and hunts infantry as appropriate.

Just to warn you, your math seems off here. I do not think you took the cost of demolitions into account. Other than that (and honestly, I don't think I would take it at all) this squad seems good. I like stubbers myself, but that's another long topic not worth going into.

Vet Squad 2
150
A cheap objective grabbing unit. Grenade launchers while lacking ap, the multi use of them is nice as is the fact they are assult weapons with a good range. They have been nice for grabbing objectives and providing a screen for the melta and plasma vets.

I have some of those too. Make sure they never leave their chimera.

Vet Squad 3
140
Great for holding read objectives or infiltrating with the ratings to grab enemy objectives. Resilient in cover and what ever the snipers are shooting at, Harker can usually wound and matches their range.

Either give them assault weapons instead of the snipers, or give them a heavy weapons squad in addition to snipers with heavy bolter and then infiltrate the squad close up and have them be stationary.

Vet Squad 4
205
The most expensive unit. While Bastonne is an expensive guy, I like him. The fact that I have no officers to give orders and that he can give some is nice (FRFSRF being my favorite). Also his hot shot pistol gives another marine killing shot. While in the past I have used a Chimeria to transport them, I want to experiment with a Vendetta.

FRFSRF gets you an extra 6 terrible shots. You're better off with twinlinking the plasma with bring it down so that you can sidestep the gets hot.

Fast Attack
Scout Sentinels
2 Sentinels
Autocannons
80
These guys have been a great value. They can bust medium armor reliably and can attack infantry. While I have fun with outflanking them, sometimes I prefer deploying them normally and using the long range of the autocannons. Usually with the first turn most people are more concerned with the Russ and Chimeras than the sentinels.

Autocannons just feel like such a waste of points on scout sentinels. Anymore I feel like sentinels just prevent me from taking any of the cooler fast attack stuff that the IG have, like more hellhounds or vendettas.

Hellhound
150
A new addition, I have had mix reviews with it. It cooks orks well enough and wounds space marines, but the ap4 still lets them make their armor save. It manages to live through most games not always leaving a lasting impression on other people. But it is a fast vehicle and I think I will try to have it screen the chimeria as it has better side armor. Plus it looks cool, so I have to give it a chance.

Hellhounds are awesome. Don't believe anyone who tells you anything else. IG has some amazing AP2 and AP3 stuff, but the hellhound is really where flushing stuff out of cover comes into play. Besides, even against termies, say 5 are grouped together in an ideal fashion, you have 3 hellhounds, you hit all the termies with all of the cannons. Thats 15 S6 wounds against them. Odds are they'll fail 1-2 of those saves even at 2+. And if you get them with the flames at 12" range, they can't hit you back. I think you need more. I wouldn't have actually given them any upgrades to be honest.

Vendetta
130
This will be a transport for Bastonne's vets and serve as a tank hunter. I have not played with this unit before and I can not wait until I get the model and make it.

They're awesome, but be prepared for everyone to try popping it on the first turn. You should consider outflanking it.

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Extra Armour
195
Now to the big boys of the army. The Russes. A standered Bolter Baby, this tank makes MEQs cry. I try to move this one a little as possible so I shoot 1 large pie plate, 9 bolter shots, and 3 stubber shots a turn. This boy always earns its points back and can take anything up to TEQs.

I don't like the sponsons, but YMMV.

Leman Russ Punisher
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy stubber
Extra Armour
Pask
275
This is squadron-ed with the bolter baby russ, I want to experiment with this tank, the idea seems cool and Pask while expensive does make the BS better, I figure if this does not work the way I want it to I will drop it, but I see no harm in trying it out.

Let me tell you of the story of when I rolled two glances on the front armor of your squadron and ended up destroying your tank with pask in it on a six. Squadroned tanks = good. Expensive squadroned tanks = bad. Put this one by itself or make it a cheap one with battlecannon.

Leman Russ Demolisher
Lascannon
Extra Armour
195
A vehicle buster (it seems to have a talent for killing land raiders, but with the demolisher cannon, the lascannon can not hit the broadside of a barn,) and TEQ killer, this unit I always move 6 and shoot both the demolisher cannon and the lascannon. Like the bolter baby, it always makes up its points and usually makes my opponent choose which unit to go after.

I like demolishers, though not many people do.

Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Extra Armour
260
Expensive? Yes. But it is a tank of eat AP2 death so the trade off is fair. As with the bolter baby, I try not to move this tank to much to maximize its shooting potential. When still, I can get five small pie plates and one lascannon shot. It really ruins peoples days and is very handy for dealing with FNP. Plus it gives the enemy another high profile target. While it can bust medium armour, I tend to use it as an infantry hunter.

The problem is that you DON't have very many high profile targets. So much of your stuff is footslogging that it's not really "in your face", except you have the Vendetta, the Vanquisher, and the Executioner. If I go first, I'm probably hitting your vendetta with my basilisks, your Vanquisher Squadron with one, possibly both vendettas, and then my choice of battlecannoning the Executioner or the Demolishers, depending on which one feels like more of a threat at the time. Anything footslogging you have doesn't have the range to hit me before my wall of hellhounds vaporizes it. All of my stuff is in chimeras so your heavy bolters are useless and eveything else would have to get close. The above example is incredibly circumstantial, but I'd go first 50% of the time and I'm not even that great a player. Personally, I'd lose the heavy armor, some if not all of the hull lascannons, the HB Sponsons on the squadron, and the autocannons on the sentinels and see if you can't cram another tank or hellhound in there somewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Maxzero:

He can't break up the Sentinels else he'll end up with 4 FA slots. If he's using autocannons as a means of affecting tanks then he's going to need them squaded up anyway.

Yeah, I did not add the demos points to the metla squad, sorry. So they are now 195.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:I have to disagree with is putting Pask in an anti-infantry tank. I personally use him in a Vanquisher. He gets +1 BS and +1 to penetrating vehicles. 72" Str 8+1+2d6 (Vanq cannon gives an extra 1d6 to damage rolls) is nothing to sneeze at for 205 points.

Or for the same cost you can have almost 2 Vendettas (really more like 1 and 1/2). Don't get me wrong, I love Pask, he's an absolute blast to have on the table in a Vanquisher or Punisher (rerolls against MCs help immensly). But I've found that 2 Vendettas on the table is much more effective at killing tanks than a Pask Vanquisher can be, even against AV 14.

So to the OP, I'd say drop the vanquisher in favor of a another Vendetta. And make some more points by dropping Pask. Also, with that Punisher, I'd say drop the bolter sponsons and stick a heavy flamer on the hill. It's got to get closer to shoot anyways, so it'll spend a lot of thime right up in the enemy's face. Sponsons will just slow it down and it HAS to move if it's that close to the enemy, otherwise all it'll take is some guardsmen with a power fist to knock out an almost 200 point tank.

Well everyone thanks for the responses, so the basic things I am getting from ya'll is
1. Make the tanks cheaper (which I will do next game by dropping the extra amour, stubbers have been to good for me to drop).
2. Drop the Lord Commissar (My next game I will experiment with a CCS with metla or plasmas, but he has done well for me)
3. Orgyns are choice to drop or not (I have yet to play with them and want to see how they do)
4. Give heavy flamers on the chimeria (will do)
5. Drop the punisher (probaly will happen once I use it in a game)
6. Get more melta vets or vendettas (not sure if I will do those due to money and model issues)
7. Make the ratling squad bigger (will try I have some extra sniper models)
8. Change harker's squad with assult weapons. (I might change that, but the sniper squad has done very well and it serves a thematic purpose in the army, but thanks for the ideas)
9. Drop demos on the metla sqaud, demos will stay as I have busted to many tanks with metla bombs, it when my metla vets whiffed with the guns, plus having an extra demo charge is always nice.

As I said before I will not get a game until next week at the earliest so I can not try these suggestions out but thank you for the ideas ya'll have given.

@ #9: whoever told you not to give veterans the demolitions doctrine has no idea how to play IG, and should be forced to play ultramarines, as penance, for a term of no shorter than 6 months.

Well I got a game in, not with list, but 1750 and I have to say I am dropping the pask punisher, it was fun to roll 20 dice for the main gun the followed by 9 heavy bolter and 3 stubber shots, but it proved to be a underwhelming tank, and before I hear cries of "I told you so", I had to give it a try, plus it was a proxy so it is not like I bought the tank. I will be looking at the list again and doing some adjustments. I would still like to have another russ type for a theme of different tanks, so the exterminator will be proxied for the next game.
Other adjustments, the ratlings will now be 10, strong extra amour is being dropped from most of the tanks, and heavy flamers will given a try for the next game.
A new list will be posted on saturday or sunday.

Pask exterminators are dang fun

A new list, but I am 25 short of 2500, thoughts and suggestions are welcome as always.

HQ
Lord Commissar
Power Fist
Carapace Armour
95
He has worked well with the melta vets, if 3 melta guns do not kill the tank, then him falcon punching the thing does the trick, plus the metla bombs the squad carries help too. He is a cheap HQ and gives me a leadership boost.

Primaris Pskyer
70
Goes with the plasma vets, I like the model and he should be fun to play with.

Elites
Ratlings 10
100
Now a full unit. If 5 shots where good, 10 should be better.

Marbo
65
He is here for the wild card factor, hopefully I will get some good and hilarious use out of him.

Ogryns 5
Chimera
Mutli-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Stubber
275
They are here becase I like the models and I think it will be fun playing with them. I figure they can be a counter charge unit and the chimera will give them a ride to where they need to go. The Lord Commissar will probably ride with them so the unit has some powerfist attacks.

Troops
Vet squad 1
3 melta guns
demolitions
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Stubber
195
Basic melta troops. The Lord Commissar rides with them and they go tank hunting. The chimera gets them there and hunts infantry as appropriate.

Vet Squad 2
3 Grenade Launchers
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Stubber
150
A cheap objective grabbing unit. Grenade launchers while lacking ap, the multi use of them is nice as is the fact they are assult weapons with a good range. They have been nice for grabbing objectives and providing a screen for the melta and plasma vets.

Vet Squad 3
Harker
3 Sniper Rifles
140
Great for holding read objectives or infiltrating with the ratings to grab enemy objectives. Resilient in cover and what ever the snipers are shooting at, Harker can usually wound and matches their range.

Vet Squad 4
Bastonne
3 Plasma Guns
Carapace Armour
205
The most expensive unit. While Bastonne is an expensive guy, I like him. The fact that I have no officers to give orders and that he can give some is nice (FRFSRF being my favorite). Also his hot shot pistol gives another marine killing shot. While in the past I have used a Chimeria to transport them, I want to experiment with a Vendetta.

Fast Attack
Scout Sentinels
2 Sentinels
Autocannons
80
These guys have been a great value. They can bust medium armor reliably and can attack infantry. While I have fun with outflanking them, sometimes I prefer deploying them normally and using the long range of the autocannons. Usually with the first turn most people are more concerned with the Russ and Chimeras than the sentinels.

Hellhound
Smoke Launchers
Extra Armour
135
A new addition, I have had mix reviews with it. It cooks orks well enough and wounds space marines, but the ap4 still lets them make their armor save. It manages to live through most games not always leaving a lasting impression on other people. But it is a fast vehicle and I think I will try to have it screen the chimeria as it has better side armor. Plus it looks cool, so I have to give it a chance.

Vendetta
130
This will be a transport for Bastonne's vets and serve as a tank hunter. I have not played with this unit before and I can not wait until I get the model and make it.

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy Stubber
180
Now to the big boys of the army. The Russes. A standered Bolter Baby, this tank makes MEQs cry. I try to move this one a little as possible so I shoot 1 large pie plate, 9 bolter shots, and 3 stubber shots a turn. This boy always earns its points back and can take anything up to TEQs.
Leman Russ Exterminator
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Pask
230
This replaces the punisher, I think it will do better, thanks to the autocannon's higher strenght and range.

Leman Russ Demolisher
Lascannon
180
A vehicle buster (it seems to have a talent for killing land raiders, but with the demolisher cannon, the lascannon can not hit the broadside of a barn,) and TEQ killer, this unit I always move 6 and shoot both the demolisher cannon and the lascannon. Like the bolter baby, it always makes up its points and usually makes my opponent choose which unit to go after.

Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
245
Expensive? Yes. But it is a tank of eat AP2 death so the trade off is fair. As with the bolter baby, I try not to move this tank to much to maximize its shooting potential. When still, I can get five small pie plates and one lascannon shot. It really ruins peoples days and is very handy for dealing with FNP. Plus it gives the enemy another high profile target. While it can bust medium armour, I tend to use it as an infantry hunter.

Hey there,

First up, I play IG but a somewhat diametrically opposed style. Got the last list I used up here for comparison: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/294913.page
but in summary I play with a platoon of footsloggers, usually 1 vet squad, and some medium and light armor for support. I also like Rough Riders. I tend to play at a lower points value than you as well. So obviously stick with your style, but I reckon I'll still have some general tips to help you out.

Now, the strengths of the Imperial Guard is lots of troops, lots of guns, and lots of tanks. You've got the third one covered really well, and the second one to a certain extent, but a 2.5k army with only 40 T3 scoring models seems a little reckless to me. If you've got a good chance of facing a marine army with more troops than you, your guardsmen might be in trouble.

I think it's very easy to get carried away with upgrades when making a 40k army list, it's all just so delicious after all! But I've been punished hard for doing the same thing in the past. I'd advise taking *every* upgrade off your chimeras that costs anything, and the same with your Leman Russes of various types. Although I personally do approve of putting a LC on a demolisher and going mid-range tankhunting, since you can always fire both on the move.

The points this frees up... is 180. Fancy another tank? Or another vet squad?

Also, some food for thought in general: a Platoon Command Squad with 4 meltaguns costs only 70pts. If you issue BiD to that squad from a CCS, those 4 meltaguns are more accurate than the 3 meltaguns your vets can carry.

You could in fact drop your melta vet squad and the Lord Commissar, freeing 290pts to add to your 180 to make 470 free points, and sub in the following:


CCS (50)
4x Meltaguns 40
Chimera w/HHF 55
145

Infantry Platoon

PCS (30)
4x Flamers 20
Chimera w/HHF 55
105

Infantry Squad (50)
Commissar 35
Autocannon 10
95

Infantry Squad (50)
Autocannon 10
60

Infantry Squad (50)
Autocannon 10
60

For a mere 465 points. That gives you 25 more scoring models, a more effective melta unit, 6 template weapons, and by using BiD on the infantry squads (blobbed, of course) you can throw out 6 twin-linked Str7 shots for satisfying anti-transport fun. Or, use FRF orders from either the CCS or the PCS to have some additional anti-horde. Maybe use them to screen your tanks from enemies getting into melta-range, or just sit the blob on your home objective(s) and enjoy 31 models with LD9 and Stubborn absorbing enemy attacks.
Maybe if you save some more points elsewhere, you can give the sergeants and commissar in that blob power weapons, and maybe throw in another squad - then you've got a quite scary and unignorable assault unit.

So that's what I'd do, but I hope you can at least see the benefit of not getting carried away with upgrades for your tanks and units, and using CCS' and Platoons. At that points level I just think your 4 vet squads are going to be wiped out all too easily due to their inherent fragility and low head count, and since 2/3rds of standard missions require objective holding, that's a huge vulnerability.

Although it is still so much fun tooling up to the nines, it just doesn't cut the mustard with IG. Sadly

Anyway, do what you feel, I hope I've been of some help.

A new list, @ Captain Roderick, while we do play very different styles of guard, I was able to get a couple of lower point games, using the same basic format of the the 2500 list and I must agree that 40 troops is not going to cut it. I would like to stay away from platoons, as I do not have the models to field them.
Instead, for now I have dropped the Primas and added a Penal Legion to the mix, these guys can out flank or be screened by my tanks.
denied, as today, he survived the attention of Typhus, in 3 rounds of close combat and ended up winning combat, killing the foul servant of Nurgle, so Commissar Hook is staying as he has earned epic standing, making no less than 4 inv saves.

HQ
Lord Commissar
Power Fist
Carapace Armour
95

Elites
Ratlings 10
100

Marbo
65

Ogryns 5
Chimera
Mutli-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
265

Troops
Vet squad 1
3 melta guns
Demolitions
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
185

Vet Squad 2
3 Grenade Launchers
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
140

Vet Squad 3
Harker
3 Grenade Launchers
140
The larger ratling squad has made the snipers here a little to redundant, as such I am playing around with them. I tired plasma and was not to impressed, so I am trying Grenade Launchers for them too.

Vet Squad 4
Bastonne
3 Plasma Guns
Carapace Armour
260

Penal Legion
70

Fast Attack
Scout Sentinels
2 Sentinels
Autocannons
80

Hellhound
Smoke Launchers
135

Vendetta
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy Stubber
180

Leman Russ Exterminator
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Pask
230

Leman Russ Demolisher
Lascannon
180

Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
245

Here is another list, tweaked a bit, thoughts on both as usual are welcome

HQ
Lord Commissar
Power Fist
Carapace Armour
95

Elites
Ratlings 10
100

Marbo
65

Ogryns 5
Chimera
Mutli-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
265

Troops
Vet squad 1
3 melta guns
Demolitions
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
185

Vet Squad 2
3 Grenade Launchers
Carapace Amour
115

Vet Squad 3
3 Grenade Launchers
Forward Sentries
115
Squads 2 and 3 stay on an objective and give me a fire base with the ratlings. While snipers might be a better idea, I like how the grenade launchers give them a chance to hurt vehicles and infantry. The different doctrines are because it fits the fluff of each squad.

Vet Squad 4
Harker
3 Melta Guns
Demolitons
Chimera
Multi-Lazer
Heavy Flamer
240
With the meltas it gives me an out flanking or infiltrating metla unit that can also throw another demo charge. Plus it has a Chimeria for extra protection and range.

Vet Squad 5
Bastonne
3 Plasma Guns
Carapace Armour
260

Fast Attack
Scout Sentinels
2 Sentinels
Autocannons
80

Hellhound
Smoke Launchers
135

Vendetta
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter sponsons
Heavy Stubber
180

Leman Russ Exterminator
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Pask
230

Leman Russ Demolisher
Lascannon
180

Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
245

Both lists are good for what you want to do - I'd say get yourself some more infantry when you can though, because someone savvy is going to find it easy to whomp all your troops units at 2.5K, even with the penal troops.

I love penal troops by the way, a lot of people don't but in synergy with your other units they're extremely fun.

How would you feel about posting a batrep some time, so we can see how you get on?

Cap'n R