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hey all,
had a lady-based break from dakka for some time, still got the lady but back on the geekery so thought I'd start a new IG thread for list discussion and tactical bickering. It was so much fun last time after all...

So first up, here's the last list I used, which had more proxies and model-bodges than gamesdays need deodorant:

CCS
Creed
Standard
2x Meltaguns
in chimera w/HHF
(230)

PCS
2x GL
(40)

Infantry squad
meltagun
AC
PW
(80)

Infantry squad
meltagun
AC
PW
(80)

Infantry squad
meltagun
AC
(70)

SWS
2x GL
Demo Charge
(65)

Veteran Squad
all w/shotguns
3x meltaguns
Demolitions
Bastonne
(210)

Penal Legion Squad
(80)

Banewolf
HHF
smoke
(135)

Vendetta
(130)

Leman Russ Demolisher
Hull LC
(180)

total: 1300pts.

Utilising this list I mounted a successful defence on the 'vanguard' mission against an armor-heavy Space Wolf list, which contained a LS Typhoon, LRC, Wolf Lord, Rifleman Dread, 2x Vindicator, 2x 6-man Grey Hunter packs in razorbacks and 1x 9-man Grey Hunter pack. A lot of that was luck, since his first turn of shooting was abysmal, and my first turn destroyed the LS, Dread and 1 Vindi. Creed + dispersed autocannon squads + a bit of luck with the Vendetta's TL LC's is a potent prospect.

So, gents undt ladies, what do you like and hate about this list? I plan to maybe try it against non-marine-variant enemies at some point in the next month or two once I've found a new gaming group that'll have my bizarre collection of proxies, what should I give up on?

Oh yes, and the vets were in the vendie, and I apologise for having 2 Special Characters in the list, but hey at least there was no marbo!

cheers collective persons with big ears!

Its balanced enough and it relies on the IG strength of superior numbers. I would suggest though that any squad that has the ability to use multiple special weapons, you take advantage of it. i.e. Command squad could be 1 standard, 3 meltas, or if you want GLs you can tailor your PCS to be 4 GLs instead of 2. Glad to see someone using GLs though, its another underrated arsenal like rough riders or sentinels.

Yeah, my next build will do that. Meltavets are such a stereotype that I'd rather have my PCS' do their job, and BiD orders with BS3 is better odds than BS4. Cheaper too, like you were saying before.

What do you think of Bastonne? I only have a vet squad since I have the minis, and traditionally they run away first chance they get, so I figured throwing them towards my enemy's board edge with Bstonne in charge gives me a good chance not only of getting a strong hit in with them, but also of keeping them in play for longer.

I've been thinking in terms of having certain platoons in a mix n match manner for future builds. A Gunline or 'home' platoon for long-range shooting and holding my edge, an assault platoon for frontal assault, and an outflank platoon led of course by a lovely Al'Rahem analogue, similar to FreddieYu's previous lists.

Here's my current concept for a 'home' platoon:

PCS
2x melta
2x flamer
chimera
115

Infantry squad
Lascannon
GL
75

(x3)

Infantry squad
AC
GL
65

(x2)

Heavy Weapons Team
3x AC
75

Heavy Weapons Team
60

(x2)

665 points but a solid vehicle suppression and long-range fire support base. I'd blob the LC squads, position the rest where needed and obviously add and remove items to fit with the rest of my build. Some SWS for close in defence might also come in handy later.

opinions?

Not sure if this was a typo but PCS's don't have BID... This is why we have the stereo type of Veterens with Melta's because it is a cheaper points investment to have an extra CCS and a veterens with Melta squad then to have PCS + 2x Infantry Squads AND special weapons.

I like your list, but I wouldn't put a character and a doctrine on a vet squad at this point level. Just pick one or the other, I think. With the points saved I'd follow dpaul's advice and fill out the command squads weaponry.

I also like your home platoon concept. I would put the lascannnons in the HWS though to better take advantage of terrain with them and so that the squads maintain their anti-inf/light vehicle roll. With 5 AC's, no matter how you blob/don't blob you'll threaten to target vehicle flanks with the GLAC squads. There's something to be said for putting the mortars in the inf squads too, just to maximize the lasguns, but it's nice to have a mortar squad to hide. If you do keep the lascannons in the inf squads, consider finding 30 - 50 more points for plasma, especially for the LC squads - AP2.

@ComputerGeek01

I think what he meant was BiD issued by a CCS to a PCS. That's 4 meltas twin-linked, even if you fail the order you usually get 2 hits which is the same as an average hit with Veterans only its cheaper at 70pts. The two infantry squads can hold their own too especially since the meta now is flooded with rhino chassis and autocannons are dangerous. With my last game against BA, 4 squads of infantry guardsmen combined to two las-gunned-down sanguinor. My opponent was a good friend of mine so I couldn't help laughing my a$$ off. I was imagining the sanguinor's cause of death was over exposure to light and 3rd degree burns.

@ Capt. Rod

Bastone is fun, but Harker is Hilarious! I rarely use veterans but the outflank wrecked havoc whenever I used it. Use him with all raheem and/or creed and a couple of valkyries and you have yourself an outflanking army. With this army, you can give the opponent the first turn so he wastes 2 of his turns waiting for you while you get the alpha strike. Plus creeds outflank then furious-charging al raheem (with commisar of course) and his merry band usually means game over or at least tarpitted for life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, note that all of my suggestions are under the impression that you like friendly and fun armies (which is the best of course) but if you want to play competitively I'd keep the characters at a minimum.

dpaul wrote:@ComputerGeek01

I think what he meant was BiD issued by a CCS to a PCS. That's 4 meltas twin-linked, even if you fail the order you usually get 2 hits which is the same as an average hit with Veterans only its cheaper at 70pts. The two infantry squads can hold their own too especially since the meta now is flooded with rhino chassis and autocannons are dangerous. With my last game against BA, 4 squads of infantry guardsmen combined to two las-gunned-down sanguinor. My opponent was a good friend of mine so I couldn't help laughing my a$$ off. I was imagining the sanguinor's cause of death was over exposure to light and 3rd degree burns.

spot on with the BiD. I love footsloggers, so I love orders, so I love Creed. Issuing orders from a PCS isn't actually that useful until it has either a: got a special character in it or b: you're in the late game and need to hang on to your CCS orders, or so I've found. Definitely getting on the 'PCS leads, CCS commands' philosophy, since all of the PCS orders can be issued by a CCS anyway. Better to think of them as a super-SWS first and a command element second.
And there is nothing as satisfying as destroying all-powerful units with massed lasguns. Pure hilarity. The game I mentioned above, the only SW squad to get anywhere near my objectives was the wolf lord with 9 grey hunters, riding in the LRC. A bit of banewolfing, heavy flaming, and two turns of FRF! wiped them all out, and all they took with them was the SWS and 1 infantry squad.
As far as sanguinor is concerned, perhaps your troops were using specialist UV lasguns? Or maybe they just threw Twilight calendars at him until he swooned at the dreaminess of it all...

dpaul wrote:
@ Capt. Rod

Bastone is fun, but Harker is Hilarious! I rarely use veterans but the outflank wrecked havoc whenever I used it. Use him with all raheem and/or creed and a couple of valkyries and you have yourself an outflanking army. With this army, you can give the opponent the first turn so he wastes 2 of his turns waiting for you while you get the alpha strike. Plus creeds outflank then furious-charging al raheem (with commisar of course) and his merry band usually means game over or at least tarpitted for life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, note that all of my suggestions are under the impression that you like friendly and fun armies (which is the best of course) but if you want to play competitively I'd keep the characters at a minimum.

@ murdog - Thanks dude. As mentioned, my veterans are true veterans, sick of endless war, and dice-wise run away on the first morale test. Had them tank-shocked off the board almost half a dozen times now. Bastonne was an attempt to steel their nerve, but he underperformed last time (4 rounds of HTH with him and his whole intact squad against 1 measly grey hunter before I took the bugger down!) so I probably will drop him. cheers.
And why didn't I think to go las/plas? It's the obvious special weapon to go with, but just didn't feel right at the time. I like your angle of stuffing all your HW's into Infantry squads! best way to keep 'em in service, which is why I was thinking the Lascannons should stay in there. I've seen some interesting setups with blobs, essentially having the HWT's at the front in cover then the rest of the unit in a column between them and the board edge. That seems like a plausible way to get the fire lanes and maneuverability of a HWS with the survivability of a blob. But then I haven't tried it yet. Glad you're a fan of GLAC as well, it's served me wonderfully (as has MeltaAC) in the past.

@ Dpaul - Putting a commissar in a squad with Al-Rahem scares me. I tend to want to keep Commies away from any beloved characters, as I feel it's inevitable that he'd end up getting capped. If there is a chance your own guys will kill each other, it'll probably happen. But 'for cadia!' on Al-Rahem is a must. S5 insta-kill power weapon? yes please!

I'm reluctant to do a total outflank yet, since it requires a lot of mobility. I am planning on going back to a more infantry-focused army, probably dropping the Vendetta (sorry, Cider bottle) and getting some Al-Rahem action to turn my opponent's flank once they've committed against 'home platoon'. Maybe use Creed to send 10 Rough Riders along with Al-Rahem? Add in a few sentinels, maybe even a Harker Meltavet squad in a chim that's a lot of flanking killpower.

Thank y'all gents, keep it coming and I'll post my planned template for 'assault platoon' soon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and gearheadwhat would probably appreciate y'alls sanguine input here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/295139.page#1577200 and here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/294662.page

ta all!

Commissar with Al Raheem is just a term, sorry bout that. You don't actually join a commissar with Al Raheem (he already has a Ld of 9), you join it with 40 man blob in Al Raheem's Infantry squad (while the PCS and Al rides in a Chimera carrying meltas). Al Raheem and his entire platoon can outflank, that includes the "blob". And 40 guys, 4 of which are carrying power weapons, stubborn, and with the ability to furious charge is a scary sight to behold on the tabletop.

that's similar to the plan I had, although points-wise I might have to shave down the flanking blob a bit to pay for 'home' and my other forces. I suppose I should start putting together a 1500pt list to start buying towards over the next month or two.

I'm currently thinking:
above CCS with Creed
'Home' platoon as above
Al'Rahem platoon with 2-3 GLACPW blobbed squads, PCS with 3 melta, standard in a chim, maybe an SWS or two
2 RR squads
maybe a scout sentinel team
some mix of LRD's, Hydras and Griffons for HS.

Probably won't do any pointbashing until next week though, too much on just now.

Whether you choose to outflank it or not you're on the right track in giving them long range guns like Autocannons. Like I said, the last time I used the "blob" I killed a squad of grey knight terminators, a grand master, pedro kantor, and his stern guard squad. After a while, they will think it foolish to pick a fight with you in close combat so they'll stay away from it. By giving it ranged weapons, heavy weapons etc. you will give your opponent a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" issue to think about.

If you think about it, the army is starting to look like an assault army with Heavy support acting as covering fire.

Yeah that's kinda how I see it. IG is always good at defence but I think without that aggressive perspective, you lose flexibility.

Having said that I've yet to try it out, we'll see how it turns out

So, here's two options for a fun all-takers 500pt list I'm thinking of using, since I can have it all modelled and painted in time for a new FLGS opening in a few weeks and I want to have at least 500pts of non-skanky models to have some get-to-know gaming with dakkaites when they pop in.

Version 1:

CCS 50
3x Plasmaguns 45
95pts

Chimera w/HHF 55

PCS 30
3x melta 30
flamer 5
65pts

Chimera w/HHF 55

Infantry squad 50
GL 5
AC 10
PW 10
75pts

Infantry squad 50
GL 5
AC 10
PW 10
75pts

Penal Legion Squad 80

500pts

OR

CCS 50
PF 15
4x GL 20
85pts

PCS 30
3x Melta 30
Flamer 5
65pts

Chimera w/HHF 55

Infantry squad 50
AC 10
GL 5
65pts

Infantry squad 50
AC 10
GL 5
65pts

Penal Legion Squad 80

7 RR's 75
PW 10
85pts

500pts

So, I prefer not using Vet squads, both because of bad dice behaviour and stereotypes, and I like having some assault punch. I also think in small games, having a unit with the ability to outflank or tarpit will be very handy.

I know I'm lacking long-range heavy anti-tank, but in such a small game, I hope to be able to either avoid it or let it come into melta-range. And the Powerfist is just because I have a model converted up, although I suppose I could switch it for another RR and meltabombs on the RR sergeant.

I'm leaning towards the second list, because it gives me RR's, whom are fabulously underrated and can mess up a few targets for me.

Opinions welcome!