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I'm looking at getting my own army for the first time in stead of using my buddy's old army that he has been teaching me how to play with. I was thanking Tau or what should i pick and what are the pros and cons of the army. An i will not play orks that is my buddy's old army and i hate orks. An pleas no short hand talk still new to all this thanx for any help

Depents what game do you want to play.

Fly fast shoot the enemy=Eldar or DE
Stay still shoot the enemy with some mobility=Tau
Stay still shoot the enemy alot=IG
Drive/run up/drop in, beat up the enemy=SW
Drive/run up/drop in, beat up the enemy + Badass dreads=BA
Do any of the above but not as good as them=SM
Swarm the enemy with potentially endless numbers=Tyranids
Lash things=CSM

Many of these armies can do more than is listed but those are the most generally used playstyles for them.
For more details on whats good for a beginner see here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/285030.page
And here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/285175.page

Marine armies are good for new players imo. All rounders so a bit easier to pick up and play.

If I were you I'd consider just doing whichever army you like the look of the minis the most. Or wait a few months for the new dark eldar release as its gonna be great (I hope). Nice to start a new army when loads of shiny new stuff is being released.

Just dont do Demons or witchhunters/demonhunters. If you are interested in dark eldar dont buy anything until they release the new stuff.

Marines provide the most forgiving army.
If you take them, go vanilla in the first place.
Afterwards you could specialize to BT, BA, SW or whatnot.

Friends don't let friends start MEQ armies. Its the truth.

Dashofpepper wrote:Friends don't let friends start MEQ armies. Its the truth.

QFT

okay, the imperial guard is NOT a "stand still and shoot" army. It WAS back in 1998, but it ISN'T now in 2010.

Anyways, most armies are able to do most things (guard can be mechanized or infantry horde, among other things, for example), so the real question isn't what you want the superstructure of the army to be, but how you want that building to look when you're done constructing it. Space marines and orks can both make infantry-horde armies, but they look very different from each other and have to be played with different styles.

This style does depend greatly on the army. For example, some armies reward you for becoming good at movement and deployment, but punish you in equal measure if you're bad at them (guard, eldar, etc.) while some offer you safety if you're really crappy at them while don't give you many rewards once you do start getting good at them (marines, orks, etc.). With regards to this particular axis, I would have to ask you if you want something that's easy to start with, or something that is difficult, but forces you to learn how to get better faster?

There are a lot of these kinds of questions that we really can't help you with unless we have more information. Otherwise, we can't really give you more advice than "pick which army has the coolest models and learn how to play it."

Actually just go for the army you like best, fluff, look, gameplay or whatever, it won't take many games for you to start getting the hang of it.

Dashofpepper wrote:Friends don't let friends start MEQ armies. Its the truth.

Also MEQ armies can be beaten.
For absolute beginners, I suggest Space Marines, nothing else.

Start with a solid core of an easy to play army. Eg Space Marines.

When you're comfortable with that, THEN start experimenting with other armies.

But remember there's no point choosing an Imperial Guard army if you LOVE close combat.

And no point choosing orks or Tyranids if you like to rely on superior firepower.

marine armies are NOT forgiving...
marine armies are NOT easy to play...
marine armies are NOT ideal for beginners that want to win games.

Every time I hear someone say marines are for beginners, I cringe. How often have we seen the person take 30 tactical marines on foot, a thunderfire or something, a single rhino full of sternguard, a captain with one of the tac squads, and maybe round it off with an AoBR dread walking along? How well is THAT going to do?

A true beginner friendly army I would say is orks, eldar, or guard. Orks are easy because its very clear what every unit should be doing, all the time. Take 30 boyz? Run it at the closest enemy. Take 15 lootas? shoot it at the thing it can do the most damage to. Eldar are deceptively easy I'd say... because again, its obvious what each unit should do. You have banshees? well duh, get them to assault the enemies heavy infantry. Fire dragons? blow up tanks! Guard are the same as orks, but backwards... shoot everything instead of assault everything. Again, with limited tactical decisions, you can make a good move because the others are obviously bad. Orks have a way of always being good, no matter what army list you take... guard are much the same, because everything is a pretty useful choice in the codex. Eldar are more heavily focused on list building, but once you have that down, actually playing them is very straightforward.

Marines require a bit more finesse to actually win with. Unlike guard, where you can deploy cheap units in the front to absorb assaults, marines have no cheap units. Unlike orks, who rock in hand to hand and are so many in number they are almost always gonna get there, they are few, and fairly poor in hand to hand. Unlike eldar, their not great at things, and the best course of action with individual units is not clear often. If your ENTIRE group is starting new, then yes, marines are a great choice, you'll learn these things as you go. But the fact is, most people are SO GOOD at fighting marines, they have it down to a science, and unless your good with your marines, your looking at loss after discouraging loss.

Alright. When you're a beginner numbers count, so yes IG or Orks, where you can field LOADS and still expect to have a few standing is good.

But there's also the fact that SM, due to having less on the field, make it easier for the new player to catch on to moving squads, rolling to hit and wound, doing close combat.

The thing to do imho is take your time.
you will be investing time, cash and effort into your army so it may as well be enjoyable.

Go for which ever army has the best fluff and feels right for you. You have the basic game play thanks to your mate

btw if you roll the cursor across the abbreviations you will get a pop up definition on most occassions hth
(took me ages to find that out! )

ah. if your talking about just LEARNING the game, then yea, marines are a fine choice... but after you know the rules, and your focusing on tactics.... guard / orks are far and away easier. If you can get the list building aspect down, eldar are pretty straightforward too.

I'd say it doesn.t just depend on the gaming side of the army that you play. It depends on the cost and satisfaction you get from a fun army. If you start with something expensive like DH, WH or Chaos Daemons then you won't enjoy it as well as it being expensive it is a pain in the arse to put together because it is all metal. Same with DE and to an extent Eldar and CSM. You then want an easy to paint army that looks good on the tabletop, Necrons and Tau come in here. So now we go on to the gaming side:

You want fast foot assualt: Tyranids, Chaos Daemons
You want fast mechanised assualt: Orks, BA, Eldar, DE
You want superior ranged firepower: Tau
You want lots of big tanks: IG
You want survivability and amazing close range firepower: Necrons
You want a unique army that few people have: DH, WH
You want a good all round army: SM

So now we have these gone. Satisfaction and enjoyability, when I play I get the satisfaction of playing, I'm not bother if I won or lost, but I got a major boost from fielding unique armies that few people had (see my sig for them) I always had kids crowding me in awe of Grey Knights and Inquisition, then the Necrons. And because they were so little known people underestimated them and I almost always won, but now they are wary which I feel gives me power and confidence. So I believe it is your choice and all I can do is spell out the pros and cons of the armies that I know.

phantommaster wrote:So now we have these gone. Satisfaction and enjoyability, when I play I get the satisfaction of playing, I'm not bother if I won or lost, but I got a major boost from fielding unique armies that few people had (see my sig for them) I always had kids crowding me in awe of Grey Knights and Inquisition, then the Necrons. And because they were so little known people underestimated them and I almost always won, but now they are wary which I feel gives me power and confidence. So I believe it is your choice and all I can do is spell out the pros and cons of the armies that I know.

I know what you're talking about...the models drew me in...Grey Knights were my first army. When I starting playing locally...everyone immediately started dissing my army and kept telling me to play a newer codex. And then everyone assumes they can just stomp you...as long as you've got finesse...it seems to be an advantage. Things like old school smoke, psychic hoods, and force weapons help too.

I think you are all hitting on the wrong points.

to choose your first army read the fluff descriptions of all the armies, look at the models, and choose the one that appeals to you the most.

I choose Space Wolves to start, vikings, in space, with guns... Sold.

my friend started Necrons first, souless robots that are really tough to kill because they keep getting back up!

another friend started with Orks because he like the sillyness of the army

another friend started with Dark Angels because he like to wear dresses (just kidding)

the last thing you should be thinking about is tactical viability or strategy, pick you first army based on what army you like the most. You can learn how they function and how to kick ass with them after you start playing some games with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^ because there is no point in winning all your games from having a badass army if you dont like your army.

@Unluckylikehell- Rookie mistake. You started a thread about what are the best starter armies. You are going to get swamped with SM's are the best by those brain-washed into the SM cult. Yes, I said brain washed. SM's are the first thing you hear when you walk into a GW store and SM's are about every other word out of their mouths. The company has an unfair bias towards what it calls it's flagship model line and this bias is beaten into new players brains. It becomes a mantra, SM's are the best starter army, SM's are the best starter army, Repeat ad infinitum.................... I know people that have never owned or really played SM's that this is their answer when asked about a starter army.

Now seriously, that Ive finished my rant about the SM's, I'll try to list out some of the other armies.

As to what you choose for your first army, go with what you like. Sure, some armies are easier to play and win with(CoughSM cheese,Cough) but if you don't like the army for how it looks or for some other reason then you are not likely to stick with the game.

Some suggestions,

Necrons-
Pro's- Because they are due for a new codex soon, are easy for beginners to paint and are very resilient.
Cons- Limited model range, play style, phase out, and competitiveness

Eldar-
Pro's- Always competitive, great mobilty, Units are great at the job they are designed for
Con's-Expensive pewter models, very fragile w/ toughnes 3, and expensive overly specialied units

Guard-
Pro's- Ordinance, need I say more?, Low point cost units, and high Volume of fire, High model count
Con's- Can be overwhelming to assemble and paint that many models, Get's really expensive when trying to buy enough models for multiple builds, units are not durable

Inquisition-
Pro's- Unique and beautiful models(If All SMs looked like GK's then I would have aSM army), Very interesting mixed army rules.
Con's- Expensive pewter models(Reason why I do not have a GK proxy army), Rule inconsistencies due to outdated codex.

Tau-
Pro's- Good Jack of all Trades Army, Great Tanks, Crisis suits
Con'- Master of no Trades Army, Transport costs, some what unbalanced by 5th ed

Nids-
Pro's- Number of Monsterous Creature's, effective drop Pod assault (think Doom of Malan'tai), Can now shoot well
Con's- No vehicles, poor armour saves, dependence upon Synapse and instinctive behavior can be used against you

Chaos SM's- Same thing as SM's

Chaos Deamons-
Pro's-Powerful units, Invulnerable saves
Con's-Limited style of deployment, limited army structure.

This is all I can think of now. All in all, Go with what you want as oppossed to letting other people tell you what to use. If you want SM's then go for them. I didn't write about them because others will do so.

Edit for confusion between two posters and dropped sentence

Honersstodnt wrote:But the fact is, most people are SO GOOD at fighting marines, they have it down to a science, and unless your good with your marines, your looking at loss after discouraging loss.

Hort hort. I mean, personally, I'm to the point where I don't take plasma guns because I don't even need them to beat space marines anymore. I've had more turn 4 shutouts against marines than all other armies combined. Is it because only newbs play space marines, or is it because space marines are deceptively difficult to play?

I think it's the latter. As said, they have lots of expensive (pointswise) units that aren't good at anything. You're basically always stuck forcing square pegs into round holes. It's doable (which is why so many tournaments are traditionally won by SM players), but it's far from easy. If anything, you should play an army as honersstodnt said, that has every unit which has a role. That way you will have the experience to learn how to make single units play many roles, as is required for marine armies.

The unfortunate thing is that some of the better armies game-wise are some of the worst hoby-wise. A 100 man guard infantry swarm can easily show up with 15 plasma guns and 15 meltaguns and several nasty blast templates, but you've got to actually sit down and paint 100 little dudes, something which can take a VERY long time.

Oh, and ignore all of these little 1-liners people are throwing out about the different armies. Any army can do anything, and most of these quips aren't comprehensive in the slightest and many aren't even accurate anymore.

Ailaros wrote:

Honersstodnt wrote:But the fact is, most people are SO GOOD at fighting marines, they have it down to a science, and unless your good with your marines, your looking at loss after discouraging loss.

I think it's the latter. As said, they have lots of expensive (pointswise) units that aren't good at anything. You're basically always stuck forcing square pegs into round holes. It's doable (which is why so many tournaments are traditionally won by SM players), but it's far from easy. If anything, you should play an army as honersstodnt said, that has every unit which has a role. That way you will have the experience to learn how to make single units play many roles, as is required for marine armies.

Rather I think it's how marine lists are played...I believe that Marines need to be reactionary. If you build an all comers Marine list...then it will in fact be an all comers list. But you have treat treat it as such...you can't have a battle plan of "I'm am going to stick these Terminators down his throat" in every game. I don't think Marines can power play...but I also think that there's no one better at reacting to any type of enemy...though Guard comes close.

If you're up in the air I'd probably choose standard Space Marines. Not because of easy of play but because the army is the easiest to change into another army. If find you don't like your Space Marine Army you can always convert them into Blood Angels or Space Wolves. If you don't mind doing a little more converting you could add some spiky bits and some green stuff to make Chaos Space Marines. If you decide you want to run IG you can do them up as Grey Knights allies.

If you're into modeling the world is your oyster.

If your gaming store will let you peek into codexes without buying them, do so. If your friend is okay with it, try proxying an army, such as tau, with his help in army building. Do this a few times until you get a good sense of how the armies you're interested in work. (sorry, I forgot you're new. Proxy means use other models/things to represent other things of similar size. so Spiderman action figure = Tau battlesuit and model Lamborghini = Hammerhead gunship.)

so i would just like to say thanks for all your info that you all have been giving thanks. So Its come down to Tau and Guard....

Now its seems that

-Guard can just mob with tanks and people.

Were as the

-Tau are a jack of all treads and a master of none

now i have been herring from my buddy that tau just shoot the hole board and never move can some one tell me about that

unluckylikehell wrote:so i would just like to say thanks for all your info that you all have been giving thanks. So Its come down to Tau and Guard....

Now its seems that

-Guard can just mob with tanks and people.

Were as the

-Tau are a jack of all treads and a master of none

now i have been herring from my buddy that tau just shoot the hole board and never move can some one tell me about that

Tau are actually highly specialized at their specific brand of long range combat (with battlesuits and such). They are not a "jack of all trades" by any means, because their only unit that is passable in assault are kroot.

Your buddy is probably referring to the insane range of some Tau weapons, like their railguns which have a 6 foot range.

right, so guard is a shooty army, tau is an ONLY shooty army. The guard handle assaults by running up a big pile of dudes and shooting them and then running in with dedicated assaulters (or just big piles of guys) to mop up the rest. Tau handle assault by using mobility to get lots of guns pointed at the same target at the same time and kill them BEFORE they make it into close combat (and then cry like little girls if they get charged)

As well, the guard tends to be better with wide swathes of carnage whereas tau tends to be better at picking out single models and making them dead.

In any case, a choice between tau and guard betrays the desire for a firepower army. The question is do you want to handle firepower by taking less of it but making it easier to concentrate (skimmer transport+MSM tau), or would you rather handle it by taking lots of redundant firepower and shooting everywhere at once (guard)? Would you like to remove the cancer that is your opponents units with a scalpel or a bolt pistol?

---

I mean, it's not to say that the guard CAN'T do skimmer-mobility, or that tau CAN'T take lots of dudes, or advance under a curtain of heavy weapons, it's just that it's going to be more difficult to learn to play those styles straight out of the gate.

Tau are one of the most specialised armies in the game. We shoot, but unlike guard it's not a lot of firepower or massed guys. Instead what we have is very mobile units, everything is fast, and long range high strength guns. Tau excel at hitting important targets hard, we are great at focus firing.

Whereas IG are usually less mobile and have much more guns but they aren't so good guns.

Really my suggestion si to look at what ypu want to play. Proxy a few games to test out then commit. I spent ages looking for the army I liked before I started playing but everyone told me Tau we awful and never to play. Eventually I just thought I would give them a try and I really don't care they are thought of as a bad army, I can still win with them.

In the end I have found background, models and playstyle are more important than how good they are or how easy they are to learn with. Don't pick an army because you have been told it is good for beginers, itherwise you will learn the rules then end up with an army you don't like. It's much easier to learn with an army you enjoy. Same thing with how competitive an army is, as you play you will get better and win games regardless, and in the end most armies get regular updates so they will be good again in a few years.

...well, with an army you enjoy you're more likely to stick it out through more horrific losses before you give up entirely. Obviously you want an army that suits you when you've gotten good at it, but it is a good idea to pick a generically good army, or an army that generically plays the way you like to play it now (even if it's not how you like to play it later), because you can always twist armies later when you're good, but you need to have the patience to stick it out to get good, regardless. Nothing inspires you to keep going like the sweet taste of victory.

By Jack of all trades, I was reffering to the fact that the army is a middle army in that it was designed to fall in between the Eldar, SM, and the IG. It is true that theTau are not good in HtH but their army was designed in 4th ed as a ranged warfare army whose basic units could do several thing generally well but not great.

Their troops have armour save 4+, not as good as a marines 3+ but better than the guards 5+. They have a weapon that can wound any infantry, monsterous creature, any non-vehicle unit, and strong enough to penetrate av 10. They also had the option to take emp grenades that can take out av14.
Tau infantry don't get meltas or flamers which means they have the tools to handle most things that come along but they don't really excel,

The Hammerhead does have the railgun which is great at Anti-tank and the sub-muntion is a good large blast weapon but the counter to this is that there is no ordnance in the Tau army. Tau vehicles are skimmers but not fast, except the piranha. They have wargear that allows then to shoot like they are fast but don't have the speed. Also, Remember that the Tank was designed in 4th ed and at the time it was good middle of the road vehicle. Tau vehicles may be the only units in the Tau that improved with 5th ed. This is because 5th ed made them much more survivable.
Now compared to other Tanks that move fast or mount much more firepower the Hammerhead is still in the middle from a design standpoint.

For those that say the Tau are highly specialized, that is both a yes and no. The crisis suits can be kitted out with a focus toward a specific enemy but are the only unit type in the Tau army to have this ability. Problem is, when you kit all of your crisis suits to go after a specific unit type the army loses balance. 5th ed has changed the army builds to the point where the Tau players are unbalancing their list in order to keep up. The crisis suit were originally designed to be multi-role and the proof of such is their wargear.
The rest of the Tau army are given general issue equipment that is good for several roles but rarely the best in any.

P.S. Don't let them fool you about the HtH, True Tau Stink, but the Kroot are pretty decent if they have their hounds and proper fire support. They don't take down dedicated assault units but then most things don't. Against dedicated assault units you usually want to shoot them up before the get to you.
The kroot are a troop unit that is better in HtH than any single infantry troop the IG have, Necrons have, and will match most eldar troop infantry. They can even hold their own against Basic Tyranid, Basic ork, and basic SM troop infantry if there are no Independent or Special Characters in the units. Again, the Kroot are ok but not great,

From a modeling perspective, my recommendation is the Tau. I'm not a huge fan of their aesthetic, but they are a much less daunting task as a beginner modeler.

By the way, as you're considering the hammerhead railtank, I'll warn you that as tank hunters go, the broadside suits are cheaper and more efficient. Stick 'em in ruins and pound any armor on the board and you won't have to worry about much. The Ionhammer, on the other hand, is stupidly effective against MEQ and really any infantry unit other than Terminators.

Tau are easy to model? Maybe.

Easy to paint well? I think that depends on the colour scheme you go for. It's easy to paint a model one colour and leave it at that, but Tau are more about subtle colours than a blanket colour IMO.

And don't forget, if you don't want to be pummelled in close combat you have to take vespid or kroot, and they are a lot harder to paint!