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Hey guys,

I don't actually know what fluff it comes from, but according to Lexicanum several Space Wolves "threw themselves to the Red Corsairs' mercy" when they took the Wolf of Fenris.

Are Space Wolves somehow lacking in zeal in comparison to other chapters? Are they literally a band of drunken louts in it for the fighting? Because AFAIK most Marines would sooner die than sully their honour by defecting to the hated enemy...

Well, not to say that Marines don't defect (ofc they do) but imagining Marines begging for their lives and defecting out of desperation... that's surely a concept that would be alien to SM, no? Perhaps tempt them with power and bloodlust, but simply to spare their own lives? Ack... Silly Space Puppies.

They just wanted to live.For there treachory they were gaven command of the ship and they were gavin a membership in there leigon.

the red corsairs brought women.
it was a regular sausage fest aboard the wolf of fenris.

"hey wolfs we got beer!"
"ok where i can join?"

They didn't beg they just thought were gonna die sop lets stop that happening and they simply turned around and started shooting other Labradors.

Henners91 wrote:Hey guys,

I don't actually know what fluff it comes from, but according to Lexicanum several Space Wolves "threw themselves to the Red Corsairs' mercy" when they took the Wolf of Fenris.

Its part of the Badab war.

Chaos claims its victory and some wolves turning.
Space wolves seem to admit the loss of the cruiser, but nothing more.

It depends on your sources then, if SW turned tail or not.

As it was at 981.M41 , maybe we will see more if there is ever a new chaos dex.
( all those renegades told you is lies, IMO )
Lets assume it wasn't an unexpected ambush and the SW are already infiltrating the red corsairs.....

Mnyah, fluff-wise the SW are jerks imo so it makes me happy to see them behave like children

Devastator wrote:"hey wolfs we got bear!"
"ok where i can join?"

I was unaware bears were so enticing to potential recruits.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:

Devastator wrote:"hey wolfs we got beer!"
"ok where i can join?"

I was unaware bears were so enticing to potential recruits.

what, wolfs like circus
.....typo fail

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:

Devastator wrote:"hey wolfs we got bear!"
"ok where i can join?"

I was unaware bears were so enticing to potential recruits.

You my friend know nothing. . .

Henners91 wrote:Mnyah, fluff-wise the SW are jerks imo so it makes me happy to see them behave like children

Huh? Space Wolves are one of the loved Chapters in the 40K universe and Logan Grimnar is idolized the Imperium over.

What fluff makes them come across as jerks?

Blair wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Mnyah, fluff-wise the SW are jerks imo so it makes me happy to see them behave like children

Huh? Space Wolves are one of the loved Chapters in the 40K universe and Logan Grimnar is idolized the Imperium over.
What fluff makes them come across as jerks?

thousand sons, anyone?

Devastator wrote:

Blair wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Mnyah, fluff-wise the SW are jerks imo so it makes me happy to see them behave like children

Huh? Space Wolves are one of the loved Chapters in the 40K universe and Logan Grimnar is idolized the Imperium over.
What fluff makes them come across as jerks?

thousand sons, anyone?

The Emperor ordered the Wolves to bring back Magnus to Terra for using Sorcery while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayl and Magnus was accepting of this, but is Legion were not. A fight broke out and they two Legions warred. Magnus eventually joined the fight but was bested by Russ then fled to the Eye of Terror.

How does that make the Space Wolves jerks?

Blair wrote:

Devastator wrote:

Blair wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Mnyah, fluff-wise the SW are jerks imo so it makes me happy to see them behave like children

Huh? Space Wolves are one of the loved Chapters in the 40K universe and Logan Grimnar is idolized the Imperium over.
What fluff makes them come across as jerks?

thousand sons, anyone?

The Emperor ordered the Wolves to bring back Magnus to Terra for using Sorcery while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayl and Magnus was accepting of this, but is Legion were not. A fight broke out and they two Legions warred. Magnus eventually joined the fight but was bested by Russ then fled to the Eye of Terror.

How does that make the Space Wolves jerks?

Actually the Emperor told Horus to tell Russ to bring in Magnus but Horus changed the message and told him to kill Magnus.

VikingScott wrote:

Blair wrote:

Devastator wrote:

Blair wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Mnyah, fluff-wise the SW are jerks imo so it makes me happy to see them behave like children

Huh? Space Wolves are one of the loved Chapters in the 40K universe and Logan Grimnar is idolized the Imperium over.
What fluff makes them come across as jerks?

thousand sons, anyone?

The Emperor ordered the Wolves to bring back Magnus to Terra for using Sorcery while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayl and Magnus was accepting of this, but is Legion were not. A fight broke out and they two Legions warred. Magnus eventually joined the fight but was bested by Russ then fled to the Eye of Terror.

How does that make the Space Wolves jerks?

Actually the Emperor told Horus to tell Russ to bring in Magnus but Horus changed the message and told him to kill Magnus.

Still no slight on Russ or the Wolves, just that traitorous swine Horus.

I remember way back in 2nd Edition the space Wolves had a special rule in their codex relating to the Thousand Sons, I cannot remember exactly what it was though.

Almost all space marines are given ridiculous amounts of indoctrination and hypno-conditioning to create fanatically loyal warriors, absolutely obedient to the structure of command. In that piece of fluff, the marines that defected had no officers to keep them in line. In another area of the ship a wolf priest or rune priest led the wolves and fought to the last.

Marines are also trained to think out of the box and be creative, this is what makes them so potent as a fighting force. Doctrine has it's place and 98% of the time is practiced. If a squad or single marine is isolated from the structure of command however, they are expected to be flexible and do what needs doing.

Huron and the Red Corsairs are renegade marines, not traitor marines, and there is a difference. The Space Wolves respect battle courage and ferocity, and the Red Corsairs have that in spades. What the wolves can't stand is witchery and taint, unless the witchery is wolf or rune related of course. Those wolves that slew their brothers and swore fealty to Huron were just following their nature, going with the stronger leader. This particular instance is a shame, but it's why the wolves are one of my favorite armies. Unlike the total indoctrination that Ultramarines, Blood Angels or Imperial Fists produce in their warriors, the Space Wolves still have a good deal of free will in their decision making process. They choose to fight the enemies of mankind and are loyal to one another and the Emperor, by choice, not training. They respect the will to fight, no matter if it's a marine or a guardsman, and honor that fighting will in their allies and their enemies.

Krak_kirby wrote:Almost all space marines are given ridiculous amounts of indoctrination and hypno-conditioning to create fanatically loyal warriors, absolutely obedient to the structure of command. In that piece of fluff, the marines that defected had no officers to keep them in line. In another area of the ship a wolf priest or rune priest led the wolves and fought to the last.

Marines are also trained to think out of the box and be creative, this is what makes them so potent as a fighting force. Doctrine has it's place and 98% of the time is practiced. If a squad or single marine is isolated from the structure of command however, they are expected to be flexible and do what needs doing.

Huron and the Red Corsairs are renegade marines, not traitor marines, and there is a difference. The Space Wolves respect battle courage and ferocity, and the Red Corsairs have that in spades. What the wolves can't stand is witchery and taint, unless the witchery is wolf or rune related of course. Those wolves that slew their brothers and swore fealty to Huron were just following their nature, going with the stronger leader. This particular instance is a shame, but it's why the wolves are one of my favorite armies. Unlike the total indoctrination that Ultramarines, Blood Angels or Imperial Fists produce in their warriors, the Space Wolves still have a good deal of free will in their decision making process. They choose to fight the enemies of mankind and are loyal to one another and the Emperor, by choice, not training. They respect the will to fight, no matter if it's a marine or a guardsman, and honor that fighting will in their allies and their enemies.

Well said. Excellent post.

And I wonder how is Huron's armor immune to the power weapon since the Space Wolf commander struck him several times.

Personally I believe it was because Huron said that if they joined him they could join in with the number six dance after working a number six on a nearby planet.

(wonder if anyone gets the reference )

Blazing Saddles? If so great movie. Back on track its not really that uncommon in the BA Omnibus a civil war almost breaks out because a group is tainted by chaos. Sorry for being unspecific but i read it a long time ago and dont have it on me right now.

10 points to you sir!

In the BA omnibus its a radical Inquisitor who taints a marine to make him grow wings and the rest of the strike group follow except for a few sceptics who get forced to succumb to the black rage and the main protagonist who goes gorilla and sends a message to dante.

Lexicanum blows. Go read the original piece in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

Some of the Space Wolves manning the starboard gunnery decks of the Wolf of Fenris "turned on their brethren, attacking them from behind before surrendering to the mercy of the Blood Reaver."

Nurglitch wrote:Lexicanum blows. Go read the original piece in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

Some of the Space Wolves manning the starboard gunnery decks of the Wolf of Fenris "turned on their brethren, attacking them from behind before surrendering to the mercy of the Blood Reaver."

So some did defect? Damn traitors!

Something else to add is that in the Bill King Space Wolf novels Ragnar himself is regarded at risk of falling to the Ruinous Powers, and Codex: Chaos Space Marines describes the subversion of an entire Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, the Emperor's Swords, by the Alpha Legion (although it apparently took "a dozen generations".

Also I think it's been revised but I recall a time when the Astral Claws were a Space Wolf successor.

Huron is in fact a traitor. Im not sure what makes him a "renegade" instead. As to the ship: 1hadhq is absolutely correct--a ship was lost for certain but who can trust Chaos swine to tell the truth regarding fallen SW? Believing the Chaos account on its face value is pretty naive, especially considering that there are no reasons or details given for the alleged betrayal. "They just wanted to live" hardly explains any SM's conduct by itself.

Blair wrote:How does that make the Space Wolves jerks?

If you would actually read the "A Thousand Sons" book you would see they are A-holes all the way through.

Of course a lot can change in 10.000 years, but during the Crusades the Space Wolves definitely were of questionable character, blindly doing anything the Emperor ordered (or things they thought were ordered by him) in as violent a way possible, uncaring about wasting innocent life in the process.

The Space Wolves vs Dark Angels thing makes me think of 'em thataway

You'd have to be a card-carrying Chaos cultist to think the SW were jerks in Thousand Sons. If anything, that book only proves what a raging ass Magnus could be.

TBD wrote:

Blair wrote:How does that make the Space Wolves jerks?

If you would actually read the "A Thousand Sons" book you would see they are A-holes all the way through.

Of course a lot can change in 10.000 years, but during the Crusades the Space Wolves definitely were of questionable character, blindly doing anything the Emperor ordered (or things they thought were ordered by him) in as violent a way possible, uncaring about wasting innocent life in the process.

I kinda disagree, the book is written from Magnus's perspective and whilst it is tragic how he was only trying to help (and the SW consequently look even more like animals or 'jerks'), we don't see it from the Space pups point of view.. Can't wait to read Prospero Burns to see it from SW perspective (and ofc because DAbnett is an awesome author, as is GMcNeill ofc).

Space Wolves are the dogs of war, that's their thing, ''Blood for the Blo.. Allfather!!". I think probably a lot has changed, they do care about innocent life in more recent times, after the First Armageddon War, the Adept Lords sterilised millions of brave fighters and sent them to forced labour camps, Grimnar didn't approve of this mis-treatment of human life and so shunned the Adepts of the Administratum.. The big guy cares!

Perhaps the Corsairs brought warp taint and chaos magicks with them and caused some of the weaker minded SW to succumb to the Wulfen, attack their brethren..

At the end of the day, we want our ship back!!

For Russ and the Allfather!

That is true, but only to a certain extent. Certain things are not written from either perspective, or it is debatable at least.

For example the campaign against the Avian (if I remember correctly) people shows differences in the way different chapters operate. The Wolves just bombed the hell out of anyone and anything in their way towards their target, uncaring about civilians and the cultural heritage of the world like the libraries etc. Now you can either think that way is fine or have a different opinion about it, like the Thousand sons had.

Personally I don't think that just destroying everything because a few items among the books in a library could potentially be considered dangerous to the way the Imperium wants everyone to think is the way to go.

And the Wolf psyker plain and simple backstabbed Ahriman and the Thousand Sons.

But like I said in the other post, that was then and things and circumstances change. Leman Russ was made to look very unsympathetic in the book. Idk if that was done deliberately, or if it really is the way he was. Logan Grimnar's character on the other hand doesn't appear to me to be one who would agree to bomb 100 people because one among them is an enemy of the Imperium. So it likely also depends on the character of the Wolf in charge. Not every Space Wolf uses the same means to achieve the same goal.

I am certainly also very interested in Abnett's "other side of the story" book next year because I don't want to view the Space Wolves as a bunch of a-holes. Too bad he has been/is seriously ill, otherwise we would have had it already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:You'd have to be a card-carrying Chaos cultist to think the SW were jerks in Thousand Sons. If anything, that book only proves what a raging ass Magnus could be.

Eh, yeah right. If you read the book and think it is as simple as that then I am afraid I have to conclude you have certain issues with comprehensive reading.

Could it maybe be that Magnus was a raging selfish ass at times (although legitly convinced his intentions were noble) AND the Space Wolves acted as jerks

The Wolves were too close-minded, and the Sons were too self-centered. These chapters seem to be the most black & white opposites out there. As good as no room for a grey area in between. Remember that at the time the story takes place nobody knew Magnus was being manipulated. The Wolves didn't know, the Emperor didn't know and Magnus himself didn't know.