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I know they put out a lot of damage, but why do people use them? Its against the whole Fire Control special rule for Long Fangs, and aesthetically it looks crap. The whole point of Fire Control is so you can kit out, in my opinion, your Long fangs with a mixture of anti-infantry and anti-tank. Hopefully someone here on this forum agrees with me.

Captain_Sw wrote:I know they put out a lot of damage, but why do people use them?

Because you get 6 LD9 MEQ bodies with 5 48" S8 AP3 weapons that can also switch to anti-horde mode for 140 points.

Its against the whole Fire Control special rule for Long Fangs, and aesthetically it looks crap.

It looks great and the fire control rule allows them to engage light vehicles with just the right amount of firepower to damage or destroy two per turn.

The whole point of Fire Control is so you can kit out, in my opinion, your Long fangs with a mixture of anti-infantry and anti-tank.

No that's not the point at all. The point is that it's a free special ability that we'll gladly take. Then we'll proceed to take the most cost efficient heavy weapon for the squad in as large numbers as possible. In this case, three units of 6 Long Fangs with 15 missile launchers.

You take missiles because they are versatile.

You do know Missiles are both Anti tank and anti infantry right? And that fire control can be used to fire 2 Kraks and 3 Frags for example?

You also know that Fire Control can be used to fire 3 Kraks at 1 tank and 2 at another?

It just to me, 5/6 models in exact same position, exact same look, is just boring. Sure you get a better loadout, but Id rather sacrifice that, only slightly I may add, for a more individualised unit.
And yes I do know what Fire control can do with missile launchers Gwar.

Captain_Sw wrote:It just to me, 5/6 models in exact same position, exact same look, is just boring. Sure you get a better loadout, but Id rather sacrifice that, only slightly I may add, for a more individualised unit.
And yes I do know what Fire control can do with missile launchers Gwar.

I run 15 Missile Long Fangs. Each one is posed Differently.

How can each be posed diferently, theres a limit to what you can do with a missile launcher, and all the weapons still look exactly the same.

If you're only worried about the aesthetics, convert them. Firing from the shoulder, kneeling, reloading etc. Also, it has nothing to do with tactics if this is your only gripe.

What if you come across high AV vehicles, 13/14? youd have to uses nearly all your ml to just get some decent glances. Sure later in the game you can pop them with Melta, PF etc, but at the start it would hurt.

Captain_Sw wrote:What if you come across high AV vehicles, 13/14? youd have to uses nearly all your ml to just get some decent glances. Sure later in the game you can pop them with Melta, PF etc, but at the start it would hurt.

And yet a Lascannon, despite being more than Double the Cost, doesn't do much better, and sacrifices all your anti infantry potential.

Man, I was sure I was going to get one person on my side. Wow, I was not expecting such a strong resistance

The only deterrent to taking the 3x Long Fang units with 5x ML each is...not wanting to be TFG.
Seriously.

AV13/14? Remember that your army isn't operating in a vacuum. You have other units in it, and fast attack choices are brimming with multimeltas and assault cannon options that can burn up that AV13/14.

Is it anti-fluff? Absolutely. But the person who brings 3x Long Fang packs with 15 MLs doesn't give a rat's backside about fluff.

TheRhino wrote:The only deterrent to taking the 3x Long Fang units with 5x ML each is...not wanting to be TFG.
Seriously.

AV13/14? Remember that your army isn't operating in a vacuum. You have other units in it, and fast attack choices are brimming with multimeltas and assault cannon options that can burn up that AV13/14.

Is it anti-fluff? Absolutely. But the person who brings 3x Long Fang packs with 15 MLs doesn't give a rat's backside about fluff.

Woah Woah! How is it "Anti" Fluff?

It's not necessarily anti-fluff, but if you're taking those three identical squads, it's probably a safe bet that fluff is not the motivating factor. If fluff was your priority, you might take one or two such squads, but spend the other points in other, more varied units.

As for the OP, yeah, MLs are really good, especially at 10pts each.

Long Fangs are supposed to be the grillzed old vets of the chapter who have not ascended to Wolf Guard status. Having 18 of them in a single force detachment isn't exactly realistic in terms of fluff, outisde of huge battles where entire battlegroups are on the ground.

Space Wolves are also notorious for their fierce individuality and personal pride. Having every Long Fang armed exactly the same way, and every pack identical clashes with this ideal. One would think that each Long Fang would have a favored weapon, or at least a favored class of weapon, after centuries of service. Forcing them all to carry missiles because they're the best weapon on the table is counter to the Space Wolf way of combat.

Of course, this is 100% my own opinion. You run your Wolves the way you want

I agree wholeheartidly with TheRhino, but I'm not denouncing the use of 3x LF with ML for those who think differently.

TheRhino wrote:Long Fangs are supposed to be the grillzed old vets of the chapter who have not ascended to Wolf Guard status. Having 18 of them in a single force detachment isn't exactly realistic in terms of fluff, outisde of huge battles where entire battlegroups are on the ground.

Space Wolves are also notorious for their fierce individuality and personal pride. Having every Long Fang armed exactly the same way, and every pack identical clashes with this ideal. One would think that each Long Fang would have a favored weapon, or at least a favored class of weapon, after centuries of service. Forcing them all to carry missiles because they're the best weapon on the table is counter to the Space Wolf way of combat.

Of course, this is 100% my own opinion. You run your Wolves the way you want

the entire army is made up of grizzled vets... christ just look at their scouts compared to other scouts

kitsunez wrote:
the entire army is made up of grizzled vets... christ just look at their scouts compared to other scouts

Not really. They simply have a different force progression. Instead of Scout>Devastator>Assault>Tactical progression like a Codex Chapter, they run Assault (Blood Claws)>Tactical (Grey Hunter)>Long Fang(Devastator)/Scout>Wolf Guard.

AH yes, I can just see it now.

Ragnar closed his eyes as he sat at his command post, his superhuman mind analyzing the situation below. The foul Eldar had just wiped out another Imperial Guard position and it was up to Ragnar and his brothers to stop them.

He opened his eyes and cracked a small smile. "Brother Hjar, I almost didn't notice you." Ragnar turned to face the visitor. Standing just in the doorway was Hjar Windstalker, a Wolf Scout. Even in his Carapace armour, he had the same aura of savagery all Space Wolves inherently possess.

"My Lord", Harl began gruffly, "We have returned from the patrol. We arrived at the corodinates given and it is as you thought, the Eldar are establishing a base camp not too far from our position. They have already been able to bring in several of their vehicles with their foul Xenos magicks. We encountered some of the Xenos we call Rangers but we were able to swiftly dispatch of them. Brother Lokar suffered minor injury. The Wolf Priests say that they will not be able to save his arm though."

"I see. Thank you Harl. I must prepare my strike force. Take your pack and keep watch on the foul Xenos. Report back if the situation changes."

"Your will, my lord."

Ragnar turned to his comm station as Harl left. "Brother Sven, prepare the Long Fangs, we have need of their wisdom this eve. Make sure they have a mix of Heavy Bolters though instead of Missiles, we are facing Eldar Tanks, and we wouldn't want to break the Fluff. I Don't care what Brother Greybeard says, I am the frakking Wolf Lord and you do what I say!"


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TheRhino wrote:

kitsunez wrote:
the entire army is made up of grizzled vets... christ just look at their scouts compared to other scouts

Not really. They simply have a different force progression. Instead of Scout>Devastator>Assault>Tactical progression like a Codex Chapter, they run Assault (Blood Claws)>Tactical (Grey Hunter)>Long Fang(Devastator)/Scout>Wolf Guard.

Erm... What?

No, SW do not work like that Whatsoever.

SW Start in Blood Claws.
Once they Mellow out a bit, they Become Grey Hunters.
The Most veteran of these then become Long Fangs as they age.

If he fails during his first few decades to meld with the pack and is a loner, he gets inducted into the Wolf Scouts.
If, at any time during his life, he becomes a Balls to the Wall uberman hero, he gets a place in the Wolf guard, same way Ragnar did when he was a Blood Claw and stabbed a Warboss in the face.

SW Do NOT just say "Oh look, Brother Bob died. Quick, find someone to replace him!" like they do in Nilla Chapters. To be in the Wolf Guard, you have to Earn it.

Nice story, lol.

I was going more for the age progression thing.

Just to add to the original discussion about Long Fang missile packs, another fun thing to do/consider is adding a WG equipped with Terminator Armor and CML. It's much more expensive, but does give you a model to allocate an AP3 wound to (if you need to) and raises the number of missiles fired by the unit to 7 per turn.

Saldiven wrote:Just to add to the original discussion about Long Fang missile packs, another fun thing to do/consider is adding a WG equipped with Terminator Armor and CML. It's much more expensive, but does give you a model to allocate an AP3 wound to (if you need to) and raises the number of missiles fired by the unit to 7 per turn.

And also take Land Speeder Typhoons (which ARE anti fluff )

In Fact, when maxed out, a SW Army can fire 33 Krak or Frag Missiles a Turn:
15 Long Fangs
6 Cyclone Missile Launchers
3 Land Speeder Typhoons

All of which only costs 788 Points (not counting the 24 other Wolf Guard you have to buy to get the 6 CML, but still an impressive number of Missiles for the cost).

People play it because it is really good to be able to shoot 2-3 shots at a target that have a chance to wreck it and also to shoot 2-3 shots on the next target. It reduces overkill. If you think it is agains the fluff then I suggest you play it differently. Just don't expect people that don't care about fluff the way you do to do the same cause you will be disappointed.

It's 18 bodies with 15 missile launchers that can shoot at 6 separate targets each turn for 420 points.

The bottom line is cost.

In line with the fluff gig, once upon a time (3rd edition), you could only take 0-1 LongFangs.

privateer4hire wrote:In line with the fluff gig, once upon a time (3rd edition), you could only take 0-1 LongFangs.

Erm...

Whut?

That was not 3rd edition...

I think we can all agree that long fangs are great.


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Another reason why fire control is just awesome is that you can go say fire 2 LC shots into one tank and 2 into another so you can potentially wreck or disable 2 different tanks in one round of shooting which is very powerful

I agree that 15 identically posed ML guys look boring, but then _any_ 15 identically posed figures look boring. It's easy to at least get minor pose variations (e.g. heads looking in different directions and wepons pointing higher or lower, and a bit of imagination will suggest other poses - e.g. mix in some previous edition MLs (without the autoloader backpack) and show some manual reloading. And for SWs you have plenty of wolfy bling available to add customised weapon details.

And because of this ebay has run out of missile launchers, There are hardly any "buy it nows" and most are on auction and sell for an unbelievably high price. I was scoffing when lascannons are normally 6 AUD a pop but ML now sell for like 12 AUD after auction!

So next time someone asks me why my LF do not have MLs I can just say its the fluff and complain about the guy with 15 ML cause he cleaned out ebay or has more money then me

Captain_Sw wrote:It just to me, 5/6 models in exact same position, exact same look, is just boring. Sure you get a better loadout, but Id rather sacrifice that, only slightly I may add, for a more individualised unit.
And yes I do know what Fire control can do with missile launchers Gwar.

Wait, I think I'm lost. I could have sworn I clicked on the tactics forum.

Captain_Sw wrote:It just to me, 5/6 models in exact same position, exact same look, is just boring. Sure you get a better loadout, but Id rather sacrifice that, only slightly I may add, for a more individualised unit.
And yes I do know what Fire control can do with missile launchers Gwar.

Actualy it is very easy to get difernt Poses
I have 2 Long Fang Packs and the make up is based on what was in the Bits Box
1] 2x ML [One Old School, One Black Reach Missile Launcher], 2x LC [One from the Long Fang box set and the other with a Devistator Las Cannon and a Flight Base for a Peg leg], 1x HB [Space Wolf with a Scout Heavy Bolter]

2] 5x Missle Launchers
a] Black Reach Missle Launcher on an old Long Fang Body with that little totem thing in the left hand
b] McKray Missile Launcher in the Down Pisition wielding a Chain Sword
c] Devistator Missile Lancher aimed high with a Battle Axe
d] Scout Missile Launcher and Chain Sword
e] An original Rouge Trader Space Marine Missile Launcher and a Scout Combat Knife.

It is actualy easy to do.