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Hello everyone,
I was playing against my friend(and my bro) and we came up with these questions in the game

1.What is the leadership of the nob in a 30 man mob?I was trying to mind war him, but he said fearless units are leadership 10, anyone can give me a page number on the BRB about it?Or be nice enough to give me all the rules required

2.I tank shocked a mob of boyz, and they ran away, but I went too far and hit the table edge(about 2 cm out), does that mean I lose my wave serpent too?

Sorry if I was asking some simple questions that was said on the rulebook
Thanks for your time and replies!

Wings of Purity wrote:Hello everyone,
I was playing against my friend(and my bro) and we came up with these questions in the game

1.What is the leadership of the nob in a 30 man mob?I was trying to mind war him, but he said fearless units are leadership 10, anyone can give me a page number on the BRB about it?Or be nice enough to give me all the rules required

2.I tank shocked a mob of boyz, and they ran away, but I went too far and hit the table edge(about 2 cm out), does that mean I lose my wave serpent too?

Sorry if I was asking some simple questions that was said on the rulebook
Thanks for your time and replies!

1) It is 10. All non-Armour Value Characteristics are Capped at 10 and can NEVER EVER go above 10. The only exception is Bonus Attacks (but they don't alter the Characteristic anyway), so a unit of 30 Boys is Ld 10, as is a unit of 11, 24 or 9,823.

2) No. The Wave Serpent stops as soon as it touches the board edge, as models cannot move off the board. Only models that are falling back are removed when they hit the edge of the board.

3) Never be sorry for asking questions. It's how everyone learns (well, except I, the mighty Gwar! I just came into existence at the beginning of Time All Knowing, but I'm the exception rather than the rule. ).

Not rulebook. Ork codex:
P31.
Mob rule. Not exactly word for.

"Ork mobs may always CHOOSE to substitute the number of orks in their mob for their normal leadership value. If it has 11 models or more, the unit gains fearless as well".

1. Ld of a mob of 30 is 10 (stats cap at 10) and Fearless.
You can have a ld of <10 and be fearless. Ld10 doesn't automatically grant fearless.

2. FALLING BACK units that hit the table edge are destroyed. Vehicles don't take morale checks and never fall back.
There are no rules covering voluntarily moving units off table - so the game breaks.

chromedog wrote:
There are no rules covering voluntarily moving units off table - so the game breaks.

Are you sure?
I thought I saw a rule in their saying that models cannot move off the board voluntarily. Could be wrong though dont have BRB with me.

It's not in the rulebook. It is in the FAQ, though.

Ah that will be where I saw it.

I have a horrible memory. (its so bad I have played matchs forgetting to fire whole units for the entire game)

Whats to stop you from tank shocking 18" when you only have 9" of table left, cause the tank shock rules state you state the speed, move, if you kill the unit or it moves out of the way, continue moving till maximum distance and oops there is the edge of the world... sorry about that.

I think, and would play it, that once you have defined the direction and speed that the movement by the tank becomes involuntary and subject to the rules of tank shock, wherein it does not say 'if it reaches the board edge, stop' it also doesnt say that it stops if it reaches impassible or difficult terrain

How is voluntarily declaring to move a distance involuntary?

Seriphis wrote:Whats to stop you from tank shocking 18" when you only have 9" of table left,

What do you think you gain by doing so?

Seriphis wrote:Whats to stop you from tank shocking 18" when you only have 9" of table left, cause the tank shock rules state you state the speed, move, if you kill the unit or it moves out of the way, continue moving till maximum distance and oops there is the edge of the world... sorry about that.

I think, and would play it, that once you have defined the direction and speed that the movement by the tank becomes involuntary and subject to the rules of tank shock, wherein it does not say 'if it reaches the board edge, stop' it also doesnt say that it stops if it reaches impassible or difficult terrain

You assume the driver of the tank isnt a dick and hits the breaks before the edge of the world. Just like fleeing units move around impassable terrain.

And for the record it also doesnt say if the grass is green add +8" to movement.

The only thing I could think of would be trying to add strength to ramming a vehicle or trying to move flat out.

Strength is calculated at the point of impact so it doesn't matter.

If you declare moving 18" but only move 9" you won't get the cover bonus for moving more than 12". So I see no point.

It gains you a tank if you assume that the invisible 'the vehicle stops at the edge of the table' rule is there... if you dont assume it to be there then you have to be a little more careful in guessing the distance.

the 18" example is an extreme case...

You assume the driver of the tank isnt a dick and hits the breaks before the edge of the world

No i assume he's following orders exactly to the letter and would drive off the edge... your assuming something is written when its not, these models dont have minds of their own... the unit being able to make decisions on its own went out with fourth ed rules of target priority checks.

As for the sarcastic comment, i'm not saying add anything. If anything, the interpretation of 'it drives off the edge of the world' adds less to it than the 'the vehicle voluntarily stops if it reaches impassible terrain, or the edge of the table' interpretation that you all seem to have taken.

Lets put it this way, how far do you have to move the vehicle if you declare it to be tank shocking 9" assuming nothing in the way, being in the middle of the table?
the answer is obviously 9 inches.

now place it 5" away from the edge of the table and tank shock something on the edge, remembering the rules are written to NOT INCLUDE the phrase, the vehicle stops if it encounters impassible terrain or the table edge, how far do you have to move if you declare it to be moving 9"?
again, the answer will be 9 inches.

You dont have a choice, it is an involuntary distance you have to move made on a voluntary distance choice, that once made is locked in stone and can not be changed. The rule does not say "move up to 9"' it says, move 9" and if it happens to hit an enemy model it is shocked.

No it is just like tank shocking and coming into contact with impassible terrain. It stops dead, or if it hits a enemy tank it counts as ramming and instead of hovering over it (if its a skimmer) hits it dead on. (it was ordered to move 9" but yet it disobeys orders any only moves to the tank in front of it)

Seriphis wrote:I...remembering the rules are written to NOT INCLUDE the phrase, the vehicle stops if it encounters impassible terrain or the table edge,...

The tank rules aren't written to include it specifically... but that doesn't mean that the existing rule that you can't voluntarily move off the table doesn't still apply. In fact, that rule has to still apply, since the Ramming rules don't tell us to ignore it.

Syanticraven -> Tank shocking does not lead to a ram... different rules.
A ram can have a tank shock occur before the ram occurs, but a ram can not be a result of a declared tank shock.

Insaniak -> that's the only justification, and at the same time, the voluntarily move off the table only comes about from a FAQ as it doesn't specifically say it can, more specifically, it states that a unit can not move off the table unless it is otherwise expressly permitted, nothing about voluntarily or otherwise.

without the FAQ the following applies for stopping:
- Comes within 1" of an enemy vehicle
- Contacts a friendly model
- Stunned, destroyed or immobilised by Death or Glory
- Destination reached.

insaniak wrote:

Seriphis wrote:I...remembering the rules are written to NOT INCLUDE the phrase, the vehicle stops if it encounters impassible terrain or the table edge,...

The tank rules aren't written to include it specifically... but that doesn't mean that the existing rule that you can't voluntarily move off the table doesn't still apply. In fact, that rule has to still apply, since the Ramming rules don't tell us to ignore it.

^ this +1. If the tank shocking section had more specific rules for impassable terrain/board edge then we would know from that section what to do. It does not, so we have to fall back on the more general movement rules which tell us what to do in the case of table edge.

^ this +1. If the tank shocking section had more specific rules for impassable terrain/board edge then we would know from that section what to do. It does not, so we have to fall back on the more general movement rules which tell us what to do in the case of table edge.

The FAQ not withstanding, where in the bgb does it state this? page number?

Seriphis wrote:

^ this +1. If the tank shocking section had more specific rules for impassable terrain/board edge then we would know from that section what to do. It does not, so we have to fall back on the more general movement rules which tell us what to do in the case of table edge.

The FAQ not withstanding, where in the bgb does it state this? page number?

I think we both know that it doesn't.

I think we both know that it doesn't.

so what rule are you following?

I'll chalk this up for another RAW BS malarkey.

Seriphis wrote:

I think we both know that it doesn't.

so what rule are you following?

I'll chalk this up for another RAW BS malarkey.

Exactly the reason it was answered in the FAQ:

Q. Can models move off the table?
A. Not unless a rule or the mission being played
clearly specify that they can. All good wargamers
know that the edge of the table is the end of the
world!

Edit:

Since the tank shock section doesn't specifically allow for models to move off the table they do not. Unless you can find it in the rulebook where it says they do.

Exactly the reason it was answered in the FAQ:

To which i referred.

Some people like to hold that the question part of the FAQ does not constitute as a rule and that infact it should be a part of the Errata to be considered a rule, personally i accept it, but outside of the FAQ, do you have any evidence to support your stance?

Seriphis wrote:

Exactly the reason it was answered in the FAQ:

To which i referred.

Some people like to hold that the question part of the FAQ does not constitute as a rule and that infact it should be a part of the Errata to be considered a rule, personally i accept it, but outside of the FAQ, do you have any evidence to support your stance?

No I do not. Outside of the units falling back section, do you have any further evidence as to what happens to units that aren't falling back that encounter a table edge?

Edit:

Grammar.

Its actually funny, because one would think destroy it, or similar, but according to BGB however it doesnt need to be on the table in order to be considered in play... to move or to shoot.

Just move it 3 inches outside of the table and continue your turn.

The only time it talks about units on the table is in the deployment types and reserves, outside of that, there is nothing to stop you from saying something is off the table and permitted to play.

The FAQ is the only point it makes that statement, and while on the face of it, it looks to be a stupid question it really isnt.

Re-read movement, doesnt say for each unit on the table, similarly for shooting or for assault. You'll find why it was asked, an oversight on gw's behalf.

Tank shock can become a ram if you accidentally run into a tank,even if its your own tank!

Wings of Purity wrote:Tank shock can become a ram if you accidentally run into a tank,even if its your own tank!

Wrong.

A Tank Shock can NEVER be a Ram. In order to ram, you must declare you are moving at max speed. If you do not, then you stop 1" from any enemy vehicles.

Oh really?Thanks man

If you declare a ram on say, a rhino; and to ram said rhino, you must pass through some tac marines, do you get the ram and the tank shock?

Or not at all

S_P

Space_Potato wrote:If you declare a ram on say, a rhino; and to ram said rhino, you must pass through some tac marines, do you get the ram and the tank shock?

Or not at all

S_P

Yes, you get both.

A Ram can Tank shock models along the way, but a Tank Shock can NEVER become a Ram.

Gwar! wrote:

Space_Potato wrote:If you declare a ram on say, a rhino; and to ram said rhino, you must pass through some tac marines, do you get the ram and the tank shock?

Or not at all

S_P

Yes, you get both.

A Ram can Tank shock models along the way, but a Tank Shock can NEVER become a Ram.

Sweet, thanks Gwar!, now I have another set of tactics for my Eldar.

S_P

Just be aware that tank shock and ramming are done just a tiny bit differently.

With tank shock you do pick a distance to move. With ram its full speed ahead, no slowing down. This can mean having to plow into nasty bits of terrain if you do manage to destroy your target. With tank shock you can more or less pick your end point, with ram it may be a bit farther than you really want to go. (perhaps ending a foot away from that objective you want to contest....)


Sliggoth