Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Night Spinner is a variant of the new Fire Prism, with a monofilament cannon:
S6, AP-, twin-linked,
5'' blast, artillery(!),
rending,
enemy is left in difficult and dangerous terrain.

It appears to be an anti-infantry weapon.
I'm toying with two (naked) Night Spinners in 1750 pt games.

What do you think? Is it worth taking?

I've been wanting to do this since it appeared in APOC (wasn't aware of the epic one).
It definately plays a different role to the other tanks; their impact is more on restricting movement over multiple turns.
I think they would work well with banshees, reapers, and hawks.

If you're going to take up two HS slots, I guess you'll be leaving the anti tank to WS dragons; which leaves you with troops and FA to deal with those enemy units being held up in "new" dangerous terrain. I assume you'd be wanting to be shooting rather than assaulting-

Maybe the Night Spinner makes big squads of Wraithguard more viable?

Well, in fact, movement restriction is like pinning the enemy in place increases your tactical flexibility.
On top of this, the cannon can do some damage.

mal wrote:I've been wanting to do this since it appeared in APOC (wasn't aware of the epic one).
It definately plays a different role to the other tanks; their impact is more on restricting movement over multiple turns.
I think they would work well with banshees, reapers, and hawks.

If you're going to take up two HS slots, I guess you'll be leaving the anti tank to WS dragons; which leaves you with troops and FA to deal with those enemy units being held up in "new" dangerous terrain. I assume you'd be wanting to be shooting rather than assaulting-

Maybe the Night Spinner makes big squads of Wraithguard more viable?

Yay, it works well with some of the most craptastic units in the codex.

Fire prisms main use is not anti tank so I dont see how it changes that aspect of the lists that much.
Personally I think I will try to incorporate one Spinner in my army which would leave me with 2 prisms and one spinner for HS. One tank to hide and slow the opponent down and then some ranged fire to make the most out of it.

Well, I'm toying with 2 Night Spinners and a squadron of War Walkers, or
1/2 Night Spinner(s) and 2/1 Fire Prism(s) (as tedurur mentioned).

Basically its totally outclassed by the Prism and not worth taking imo. Sure it is an effective anti infantry weapon but their are plenty of things in the Eldar list which can do that, notably in slots which aren't as contested (just take Walkers if you need pure anti-infantry power from you heavy slot). In 5th units are in transports more often than not so yo need to be able to open up tanks. While the Dangerous Terrain side of things is nice, its incredibly unreliable and being S6 AP- means you are unlikely to damage the tank with shooting in the first place (and is totally wasted if you are trying to stop anything AV12+, 1/6 chance of immobilizing it is nice but you waste the actual damage causing part of shooting it).

Their anti infantry power is about the same, probably slightly favouring the Spinner particularly when up against 5+/6+ saves (twin-linked and Rending makes up for the reduced AP + you get the terrain bonus on top) but the Prism as actually a usable anti-tank weapon as well and has the linked shot if you need it.

With Fire Dragons and Bright Lances to take out tanks and Scatters to deal with pretty much everything else, its great having a couple of Prisms which can pitch in to help out whichever side of things is more important. They are also probably the best way that Eldar can deal with units with 2+ saves or mass FNP armies (aka Blood Angels) which show up more often than pure horde armies.

The Spinner lacks this versatility and ability to damage anything more than horde infantry reliably, basically it provides more of the same for Eldar (who already have S6 shooting coming out their ears). If it had AP5/6 and multiple shots it might be useful (even if it changes to 3-4 small blasts rather than a single large blast), as you would have a decent chance of damaging tanks (and hitting multiple tanks with the terrain bonus) and could still beat up infantry.

Well, I never had good luck with dual Fire Prisms, whether the shots were combined or not:
''Oh, here is squad of 8 Blood Claws with jump packs that eradicated my Pathfinders. Let's see if I can eliminate them by a combined prism shot. Okay, let's see, it bounces off even after re-rolling. Hah, 3 got killed.''
Therefore, I'm no longer keen on Prisms. I want to see how the Night Spinners behave.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I never had good luck with dual Fire Prisms, whether the shots were combined or not:
''Oh, here is squad of 8 Blood Claws with jump packs that eradicated my Pathfinders. Let's see if I can eliminate them by a combined prism shot. Okay, let's see, it bounces off even after re-rolling. Hah, 3 got killed.''
Therefore, I'm no longer keen on Prisms. I want to see how the Night Spinners behave.

Why would a night Spinner behave any differently in that aspect??

As Powerguy pointed out, the Prism outclasses the Spinner in most aspects, I still think that there might be room for the spinner for dealing with bikes and other units which can keep up the pace with your skimmers but I have yet to use it. The AP- makes it a bad AT unit even with rending but its not totally useless.

Why would a night Spinner behave any differently in that aspect??

It will not behave much different. But it brings a different element into the game, restricting movement.

It's artillery and can kill stuff. Take it.

Seriously, Barrage weapons are awesome. I used to think they weren't all that hot until I started to take them with my old Iron Warriors army and they rock. The ability to kill stuff that you can't see is an enormous force multiplier that will make your opponent very uncomfortable and open up all kinds of options for you.

The Night Spinner seems to be extra good because, like the Basilisk, it can hurt anything, what with the rending and entanglement rules. That means that unlike the Whirlwind (which is still excellent) it is good against any opponent.

I would take it naked, or maybe with a Shuriken cannon if you have 10 points lying around unused. I would also only take one of them, since one barrage weapon seems to be enough, but if you really like it then try two. Maybe two will fit your playstyle more. I plan on taking one Night Spinner, two Fire Prisms, and then my usual mess of Aspect Warriors in Wave Serpents and Jetbikes.

It seems that the fire prism is a much more versatile weapon for the same points/slot. I cannot see the Night Spinner replacing it in a take-all-comers list.

With the 5th edition meta game tilting towards mechanized lists, dedicated anti infantry units seem to be not worth the points when a multi purpose unit is available. The fire prisms gives you anti infantry with the potential for anti tank. Sure the night spinner might be better at anti infantry but the flexibility of the fire prism wins.

Maybe if the night spinner kept its transport capacity that it had in Apoc it might be worth it since you could stick 5 Dire avengers in there to make it scoring and then it would have a dual role.

I'm going to try one to test out with my dual squadrons of walkers, it will slow them down while the walkers finish them off.

I won't know if they're any good until this friday.

Ill just magnetize the kit and try both out.

Ever see 2 vehicles pin in an Imperial Guard chimera wall? I have. We just played a 3000 point per side Battle mission game and my Eldar Ally had 2 Night Spinners...he was putting about 3-4 chimeras in Dangerous Terrain as well as popping 1 or two a turn since the barrage hits on the side armor...I gained a whole new respect for this tank as its versatility is phenomenal, especially if you compliment it with the right combination of units.

I play Space Wolves and this vehicle will make me think twice about taking my Hammer Unit of 3 Wolf Lords with 15 Fenrisian Wolves...Dangerous Terrain in every phase...yeah, no thanks.

I was planning on adding a Fire Prism to my all-jetbike army. Key word 'was'.

The local meta here is light-to-medium mech, mostly of the AV10-12 range. Since I have nothing in my army that touches the ground, and absolutely live or die by out manouvering the enemy I am very excited by this Night spinner thing.

It's just a shame the model is so ugly. the new Fire Prism is fantastic, the Night Spinner, a kind of insult to the eyes...

The nightspinner is worse than AIDS .... terrible vehicle.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Ever see 2 vehicles pin in an Imperial Guard chimera wall? I have. We just played a 3000 point per side Battle mission game and my Eldar Ally had 2 Night Spinners...he was putting about 3-4 chimeras in Dangerous Terrain as well as popping 1 or two a turn since the barrage hits on the side armor...I gained a whole new respect for this tank as its versatility is phenomenal, especially if you compliment it with the right combination of units.

This comment is quite helpful showing also the respect of the enemy from this new tank.

kill dem stunties wrote:The nightspinner is worse than AIDS .... terrible vehicle.

Your tactical prowess have convinced me! thank you for that insightful comment...*facepalm*

I /facepalm and /golfclap as well.
Though I don't like the idea of a static vehicle in an Eldar army.

To me it just looks.... un-Eldar-y.

I feel it's nice GW is giving some thought to older codicies, but it's not something I'd throw myself onto.
The double prisms have been effective for me and I use them in more ways then just a firing platform... one is unlikely to get as much utility out of it than the static-back-field-only-support.

Though I don't like the idea of a static vehicle in an Eldar army.

You don't have to be stationary to fire the gun.

I didn't really see why i had to explain myself ... i thought the rules, points cost and foc slot of the vehicle did that well enough for me ....

Its terrible. costs 30-50 pts too much and should be fast attack. As is fire prisms are better in every single scenario.

The Night Spinner is an excellent tank. Highly versatile with redundent damage potential it also succeeds in 2 very important ways that few other Eldar weapons can. First it's range is superior to almost anything else in the Eldar arsenal and second it's indirect firing capabilities make it more survivable.

I have never liked the Fire Prism to much. It is very one dimensional and not very useful vs. a skilled opponent. I have always felt the Prism is a weak crutch and a sign my opponent is not a very good list builder.

ange on a terrible s6 ap- rending pieplate is not that great, as for being more "survivable" because its behind a rock, how does that stop dropping melta again?

Not that i would waste a melta drop squad on such a terrible tank, id just keep plowing on with reinforced rams/dozerblades/not caring about 1/6 of immob and ignore the pieplate that wont ever scratch my vehicles.

An old axiom of 40k list building reads: Anti-troop weapons on tanks and anti-tank weapons on troops. The Spinner won't have to shoot a single tank, the rest of the Eldar army can take care of that.

@Kill dem stunties:
That's a self destructive post.
You say it would go down to melta, but it's not a priority hence not downing it.

Not downing it means you leave it to its own device, which is never a good idea no matter what unit you are talking about.

There is merit to what it can do as the effects are generally indirect.

I feel that the choice between them comes down to personal taste really. They are worth a try I would hazard, but I do like my linked prisms as it's quite unique to 40K.

kill dem stunties wrote:ange on a terrible s6 ap- rending pieplate is not that great, as for being more "survivable" because its behind a rock, how does that stop dropping melta again?

Not that i would waste a melta drop squad on such a terrible tank, id just keep plowing on with reinforced rams/dozerblades/not caring about 1/6 of immob and ignore the pieplate that wont ever scratch my vehicles.

How would a shorter ranged, anti-tank vehicle in plain veiw which has a bad reputation for killing tanks and infantry alike stop dropping melta again?

You also just awnsered your own question, most people arn't going to waste a one use melta unit on an unknown new vheicle with rules which don't look so good.

Also, 1/6 has a good chance in a game that lasts from 5-7 turns. Along with the chances of it hitting, rending, rolling a high number and damaging a landraider/monalith/ other heavy armour value vehicle. S6 is nothing to be sniffed at when it comes with rending.


On a side note; the apoc formation that comes with the night spinner rules looks decent. If your within 36" of your ranger squad/s you can use their BS and have unlimited range (if you need it) along with the combined fire rending on a 5+ instead of on 6's.

Actually, because it's unknown, I'd rather shoot first and ask questions later .

Minor note there wizard12, monolith says "NO YOU" to you and the rending .

I never said that fire prisms were more survivable than night spinners, i just said that being hidden doesnt grant them any more protection should the enemy decide theyre a priority and drop melta on them.

I then went on to say i consider the tank such a laughable threat, i would choose to ignore the nonexistant damage it will inflict, and focus my target priority on the things that can actually hurt me. Though with them taking a nightspinner their list probably has shining spears and warp spiders and vibro cannons etc. lol

As for it being a 1/6, against armies which dont take dozers/reinforced ram type things sure ... but anyone who mechs up in a terrain heavy meta will be running those, to plow through buildings etc, so that 1/6 is is around a 2.7% chance of immobilizing the vehicle ...

Fireprism is better at killing infantry, and when taken in multiples as a competant player will, they are as reliable as a direct bs4 shot.

A Fire prism is not better at killing infantry. It is more common for infantry to be in cover than meched up in 5th edition. A prism will have to get through the 4+ cover save (3+ if they go to ground) and it will miss more often than the Spinner because the spinner is twin-linked. The spinner will have to get through a 3+ armor or 5+ carapace (unless it rends a few times), however the Spinners effects will put the target unit in dangerous terrain which can cause even more damage.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why would you only want to immobilise a vehicle with the Spinner? If you do choose to fire it at a vehicle the str 6 gun hits the side armor of the vehicle, armor 10 for a chimera, at -1 to the damage roll for being ap -, but no -1 to the roll if you roll a 6.

I must say k.d.s. the last few lists you posted would suffer heavy casulaties to the Spinner as opposed to the Prism. Tons of gaunts and 20 jump pack marines are 2 of the prime targets this tank does better against then the Prism.