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being ap- gives -2 to the damage roll actually ... even if you do roll a 6 and rend it its still ap-

more to edit after i check the mail.

As for my lists, well duh a tyranid army is going to take large losses from pieplates? is this something new?

As for my jumper lists ... theyre deepstriking, so if you want to hit your own units with that sure, bear in mind if i assault you you make a react move and also suffer 1/6 casualties if youre hit by your own marker ... And once in cc it wont matter that vie lost 1/6 to dt, as with 3+ armor and fnp i doubt ill lose any to the shot itself, excepting 1 or 2 rends if the player is lucky. Either way a fireprism would be better negating armor and fnp.

Oh dear, I've sort of failed on my knowleadge of the rules there. But kill dem stunties, I said damage, not wreak. An immoblised vehicle is easy to avoid. A land raider with one sponson blown off can be aproched on a blind spot. Even just stunning something gives you an advantage. I mean, sure, a fire prism is more likely to kill tanks as are alot of other things. But in a game where mobility really matters, the abillity to slow down movement is useful.

I personally think that a combo of a 'prism and a 'spinner could work in tandem to wreck havoc across the field of battle.

I dont see you getting any damage results though, and if you do theyll be glancing hits (-2) and ap- (-1) so almost always be reduced to shaken through extra armor/spirit stones/whatever.

My point is that it doesnt slow down movement, all the various means vehicles have of very cheaply rerolling DT tests means your nightspinner has less than a 3% chance of immobilising the vehicle through the dt test. Let alone a -3 on damage table result if you somehow rend and manage to glance.

Anyway you work it the damage result will be a -3.

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I do beleive ap - makes the weapon only -1 on the damage table and the I do remember the rules say a rending weapon has ap 2 which would give no minus to the damage roll.

Your tactic of deep striking a 10-man assault squad speaks volumes. I won't debate this with you anymore. Just remember the Spinner doesn't want to shoot at tanks, it wants to shoot at infantry. The rest of the Eldar army will get you out of the tanks.

As for it being ap2, reread the rules, thats when rolling to wound, vehicles take glancing/penetrating hits, the rule then goes on to say what rending does to a vehicle.

And theres nothign wrong with 2 drop squads of ras, when youre already sporting 5 av13 and 3 rhino chassis with an av12 stormraven ...

and your deepstrikes will be useless against my IG army with LR Executioner and plasma sponsons and Inq with mystics...does that make the assault marines a completly useless unit comparable to AIDS? No it doesnt, so just drop your totally biased hyperbole.

how will the damage results always be at -3? Mind explaining that one?

not many players sport dozer blades all around the place nor is it even possible for all armies. A skimmer based army will not like to be in difficult terrain nor will a chimera wall ect...

tedurur wrote:
how will the damage results always be at -3? Mind explaining that one?

I think he's just assuming it will always glance, hence the -3.

Against Rhinos it will always pen on a 6 and always glance on a 5. Against vehicles with AV12 side armor it will always pen on a 6, and will never inflict a glancing hit.

Sanctjud wrote:

tedurur wrote:
how will the damage results always be at -3? Mind explaining that one?

I think he's just assuming it will always glance, hence the -3.

Which would go to show his poor understanding of the Spinner

You seem to be confused as to what role you will use this tank in.

If youre using this tank for antitank youre failing, scatter lasers handle av10-11 far better than this pos tank, let alone units actually dedicated to antitank. The whole dangerous terrain test will not be a problem at a 2.7% chance to be effected with rerolling dt tests so common and cheap.

For anti infantry you have far better options than the night spinner, the only time the nightspinner would even seem a valid choice is if you knew beforehand you were facing a mass infantry list with no vehicles and like to list tailor ...

And yes inquisitors are great, especially with executioners, thats how i run my ig.

Too bad later this year that will no longer be an option when allies are phased out, and dropping lists will make a huge resurgence.

kill dem stunties wrote:Too bad later this year that will no longer be an option when allies are phased out, and dropping lists will make a huge resurgence.

AFAIK that is just rumor and wishful thinking at this point. Besides, why plan for a year from now when he's playing now?

I'd hardly say its wishful thinking, rather id say its almost certain theyre removing allies.

Even if allies do remain, i guarantee they wont include mystics that work like they do now, if at all. GW knows that this is very imbalanced, as evinced by the fact its in 99% of all ig armies that are seriously trying to compete.

Just figured I would throw this out there...if you fail a Dangerous Terrain Test you don't get an Armor Save or Feel No Pain as the test ignores armor.

Next on the list...you deep strike in 10 man squads...that's just asking to have you handed a pulpy mess after all is said and done...

And finally, don't forget, every time you move you take a Dangerous Terrain Test...say you fleet a unit, that's 3 chances per model can die...

Oh and one other thing...you can't Turbo boost into or out of Dangerous Terrain so all those units hoping for that cover save (Skimmers, Nob Bikers, Jetseer counsels), no dice... yeah, sucks don't it?

Ok, first, the dangerous terrain marker goes away the first time they move for any reason, no multiple dt tests from move run assault etc.

second, what you just threw out there regarding dangerous terrain ... im pretty sure every single player knows, or at least should know that ...

People keep talking about making a pulpy mess out of the assault marines lol, and sure it can happen, but they're going to be dropping within 3-4" of one of your units, or in the middle of a bunch of tanks, either way im going to make you hit your own units just as often as mine if you shoot that crap weapon at me.

Either way, chances are if i were that scared of that night spinner (im not) a 60 pt deepstriking mm speeder says hello.

And for the last part not really, like you said the night spinner is only really anything worthwhile against nob bikers, jetseers, and those armies will just destroy the spinner before its a problem.

What im curious about is where you see skimmers cant turboboost out of difficult and or dangerous terrain? They just have to take a test if they start or end their movement inside it ... so saves for them ...

Besides the damage that a Night Spinner can eventually cause (or not),
there is also a psychological effect that should not be underestimated in a game:
The opponent has to roll extra dice when it comes to testing for difficult or dangerous terrain.
Nobody wants to move his/her units through dangerous terrain,
the Emperor beware.

And we all know how Deepstriking Speeders will never mishap, always land directly where we want them to exactly on the turn we need them and then will never miss thier one shot and when they always hit their shot they will always destroy the tank they are shooting at...

seriously dude...

Its not just the artillery weapon and its potential.
A fast skimmer for 115 pts is nothing to underestimate,
ramming and tank shocking are still options.

Saturday, I faced a Tau army with a heavy support unit consisting of Fire Warriors firing marker lights at my Eldar tanks.
In turn 2, one Serpent tank shocked this unit and they fled from the board.

Speeder mishaps are quite uncommon, i find it pretty hard to mishap a 3" flying base, mabye you like putting it on top of units and on the edge of the board?

Mishaps are more caused by a bad player than anything.

As for it could miss it could etc etc etc ... That can be said of anything in the game period.

You really seem to have absolutely no actual point. Just baseless nonsense.

Just from a stop and look at it point of view....does anyone else think that it would have made more sense for the spinner to ignore cover saves than to have rending? An ap - weapon somehow does extra armor penetration one time out of six......


As far as the accuracy goes, yes its twin linked, but remember that when it does scatter it goes the full 2d6. Cant subtract the BS of the firing unit.


If it ignored cover I would find it a lot more useful since cover is so common and useful in 5th edition. Making an infantry unit thats in cover count as if its in dangerous terrain the first time it moves might be useful...if the unit was ever going to move out of the cover. Usually infantry thats sitting somewhere in the current game is planning on sitting there the rest of the game, holding an objective or else acting as a fire base.


Sliggoth

As far as the accuracy goes, yes its twin linked, but remember that when it does scatter it goes the full 2d6. Cant subtract the BS of the firing unit.

It has only BS 3, while its pendant, the Fire Prism, has a better BS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

If it ignored cover I would find it a lot more useful since cover is so common and useful in 5th edition. Making an infantry unit thats in cover count as if its in dangerous terrain the first time it moves might be useful...if the unit was ever going to move out of the cover. Usually infantry thats sitting somewhere in the current game is planning on sitting there the rest of the game, holding an objective or else acting as a fire base.

Ignoring cover could be a pain. Bye bye Rangers, Lootas, and whatnot.

Yes, the fire prism has a better BS, so even tho the spinner is twin linked it isnt much more accurate than the prism.


Yes, ignoring cover is powerful....makes the SM whirlwind useful at times. Would be kind of nice capability to have on an eldar barrage weapon too. And would perhaps have made more sense than giving it rending.


Sliggoth

kill dem stunties wrote:Speeder mishaps are quite uncommon, i find it pretty hard to mishap a 3" flying base, mabye you like putting it on top of units and on the edge of the board?

Mishaps are more caused by a bad player than anything.

As for it could miss it could etc etc etc ... That can be said of anything in the game period.

You really seem to have absolutely no actual point. Just baseless nonsense.

I thought that since it's a vehicle you disregard the base.

Also when one deep strikes you know the risk. Mishaps are a part of life. We can minimize the risk, but it's still there.

And we're not working in a vacuum, if you deep strike that speeder, it may be at the very edge of the board due to its immense range, there may be other big skimmers in the way.

Not sure if the enemy uses deep strikers to take on a Night Spinner.
I guess there are more serious (closer) threats in an Eldar army.
Outflankers are more a threat. Therefore, I'd place the Spinner somewhere near the centre.

Rending Hits are Ap 2. You can get penetrating hits with no minuses on any tank in the game, theoretically. Granted, it won't be great at it, but the possibility is there.

That said, it looks like a very niche weapon, although I'd love to run one or two in an apoc game with some other factions.
In a pure eldar list, you might be able to use it against a manuverable opponent to slow them down.

Does the weapon have to damage for dangerous/difficult terrain to kick in, or is it any squad hit? If it's just landing the template over something, that could be fun.
Edit: With the enemy unit being left in dangerous terrain, this thing will murder any large infantry squads. 1 in 6 models dieing with no armor saves after getting hit will be downright cruel to hordes. This thing will really hurt kan walls with indirect fire.

Does the weapon have to damage for dangerous/difficult terrain to kick in, or is it any squad hit? If it's just landing the template over something, that could be fun.

Every unit hit has to test for dangerous/difficult terrain, no matter if its infantry, tank or whatnot.
That's indeed funny.

Rending hits that roll a 6 to WOUND are AP 2. Unfortunately you don't roll to wound a vehicle so it remains AP -

Well then. Take two, and start raining em down on the opponent's front line. With a large blast, you should be able to touch 2 to 3 targets (vehicles or squads) with one shot. Your opponent will be bogged down, or taking casualties with no armor saves.
Any foot army is going to hate this. Imagine this along with some Vypers. They circle at 36" range, while the spinners lock them down. The vypers focus on transports, while the Nightspinners focus on keeping your opponent stuck. Maybe some Pathfinders and you could get a nice lockdown going
Edit: Hmm, seems you are right, it does say to wound. Well, you only need to hit, apparently. 1/6 chance to immobilize with no other rolling required is still pretty good.

@Irdiumstern:
Yea, but a foot army is not really a good competitive gauge IMO.

A 1/6 chance to immobilze 2 to 3 vehicles a turn isn't half bad either. No need to penetrate armor.


Let's see. Kan Wall orks is fairly competitive, as is foot eldar, not to mention seer council eldar. Nids have no vehicles.

But it's not just good against foot armies. Look at it this way:
Against transports, you have a Str 6 weapon hitting side armor all the time, plus a subsequent 1/6 chance to immobilize. That's enough for Rhinos and Chimeras. That's two chances to keep them away from your lines.


I think the flexibility of laying down a large blast anywhere on the table, and then slowing down the target, can possibly be worth it.

Sliggoth wrote:

As far as the accuracy goes, yes its twin linked, but remember that when it does scatter it goes the full 2d6. Cant subtract the BS of the firing unit.

Why is this so? page 30 of the BRB says barrage weapons only scatter the full 2d6 if they don't have LoS to the target unit. Does night spinner have a special rule or is there a FAQ that changes that? The 72" range is nice too, the eldar I play against typically don't have anything beyond a 36" range, which leaves them at a serious disadvantage when having to advance a turn through Loota range (or heaven forbid stripped cover saves and railguns)